Are Peru and Bolivia at War with Brazil? If so, is there any action on those borders? An extremely infantile part of me wants in universe United States children to be confused by the "Battle of Benjamin Constant" (Benjamin Constant is on the current Brazil/Peru border near the Brazil/Peru/Colombia tripoint). I know that iOTL the borders of Brazil with Ecuador, Peru & Bolivia (as well as to some extent within) weren't agreed on until the 1940s)
Cinco de Mayo
- Thread starter KingSweden24
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Has the US developed or are they working on weapons geared towards trench and bunker warfare like shotguns, flamethrowers, better grenades or shaped charges?
i think something like "pedro III" sounds good for one of these border towns, btw i know just the right person to fight in the Amazon front....
In my head canon I thought “no”, but Brazil and Chile have that coordination pact so Brazil probably does declare war, but with the border being so remote compared to the Parana it’s probably a silent war
Oh, absolutely. Tanks and flamethrowers in particular
Candido is ready!
Total Mobilization: The Economics of the Great American War
"...increasingly dire situation. The advent of the Chatelier process in 1901 had already caused a dramatic drop-off in the revenues of Chile's nitrate mines, a decline that had already been noticeably exacerbated by improvements in the process formulated by German chemist Fritz Haber a decade later. [1] The remarkable internal improvements of Chile at the end of the 19th century and its corresponding nascent industrial base had been dependent on said revenues and fears of a second crisis, this one caused by the end of Valparaiso as a major transpacific port with the opening of the Nicaragua Canal had driven much of Chile's bellicose foreign policy since the turn of the century.
The reality was that Chile was, perhaps more so than any other member of the Bloc Sud, the most fragile partner in the alliance, and there was a reason why the United States resolved near the end of 1913 to develop a strategy to knock them and their nitrate supplies out of the war before focusing their energies on the more formidable trio of the Confederacy, Mexico and Brazil. Despite being at the time wealthier than Japan or even Spain, incomes were greatly stratified and the divides between the working class and middle class were profoundly sharp, and the leap from middle class to aristocracy was equally dramatic, with little in between and social mobility minimal. Though Chile had linked almost all of its cities north-to-south via the National Railroad (financed, of course, by British loans backed by nitrate mining) the vast distances and virtually empty mountains and deserts in between the major cities, particularly the mining towns of the North and the Santiago environs in the Central Region, made every province practically its own island. Chile's agriculture was dominated by latifundias dotted across her more fertile south, not unlike the powerful landowners elsewhere in the Americas in their politics and influence but atypically inefficient in their farming practices, thus often heavily indebted and making the situation for them and their tenants worse with outdated techniques and attitudes, sharply contrasting with the country's more sophisticated financial and industrial sectors. This made the country heavily reliant on internal trade across great distances and external imports at the key ports dotting the coastlines, and this thus made the annihilation of the Chilean Navy at the Desventuradas and the subsequent pseudo-blockade by the United States so devastating to the Chilean economy - an economy already in decline from its late Belle Epoque heights was given a grievous body blow from which it never recovered.
The Crewe Note that had mandated that trade lanes across the Atlantic remain open was generally inferred to apply to the Pacific as well, but it had largely been American, Mexican, Peruvian and Chilean shipping that had dominated the eastern Pacific once past Tehuantepec or the Panama isthmus, and it was just European-flagged vessels that were held to be immune from seizure and impoundment. The security of the Nicaragua Canal was mostly intact but many European insurers were nonetheless reluctant to touch plans to sail into the active warzone in the Caribbean which had nearly halved trade with Mexico in comparison with the United States or Confederate States; the situation on the other side of the Central American Isthmus was worse, as the United States reserved the right to refuse passage through the Nicaragua Canal in the time of war to any vessel that may be carrying contraband to Chile or Mexico's Pacific ports, and thus began a process where European vessels rather than take the risk would stopover in the far Caribbean, switch their cargo to an American, Colombian or Venezuelan ship, and then evacuate. Even Britain was cutting short the extent of its routes, which meant that crucial foreign trade to Chile had almost entirely collapsed from external sources and her own robust merchant marine and budding fishing fleets were fair game now that her coasts were almost entirely unprotected. [2]
The (at last successful and long-delayed) start of the American invasion of Chile in November of 1914 thus presaged one of the most dramatic economic collapses in the history of mankind. The economic headwinds for Chile had been long-brewing and public contempt for Las Oligarcas who ran the country's Congress and Presidency as a personal fiefdom was at an all-time high. Food prices spiked, government and business revenues plunged, and the rising numbers of unemployed or underpaid were haughtily asked why, with all their idle time, they were not volunteering to go fight the Yanqui invader? The conditions for the social eruption that brought down the Republica Oligarca, as the epoch is still known today, were ripe, and they were founded in very straightforward commercial and economic impulses..."
- Total Mobilization: The Economics of the Great American War
[1] To the looming dismay of Peru and Bolivia when they take back their lost lands from 1881 and realize they missed the boat on Chile's Saltpeter Boom
[2] Hey remember that time I started casually throwing around references to Hungary in October/November 1918
The reality was that Chile was, perhaps more so than any other member of the Bloc Sud, the most fragile partner in the alliance, and there was a reason why the United States resolved near the end of 1913 to develop a strategy to knock them and their nitrate supplies out of the war before focusing their energies on the more formidable trio of the Confederacy, Mexico and Brazil. Despite being at the time wealthier than Japan or even Spain, incomes were greatly stratified and the divides between the working class and middle class were profoundly sharp, and the leap from middle class to aristocracy was equally dramatic, with little in between and social mobility minimal. Though Chile had linked almost all of its cities north-to-south via the National Railroad (financed, of course, by British loans backed by nitrate mining) the vast distances and virtually empty mountains and deserts in between the major cities, particularly the mining towns of the North and the Santiago environs in the Central Region, made every province practically its own island. Chile's agriculture was dominated by latifundias dotted across her more fertile south, not unlike the powerful landowners elsewhere in the Americas in their politics and influence but atypically inefficient in their farming practices, thus often heavily indebted and making the situation for them and their tenants worse with outdated techniques and attitudes, sharply contrasting with the country's more sophisticated financial and industrial sectors. This made the country heavily reliant on internal trade across great distances and external imports at the key ports dotting the coastlines, and this thus made the annihilation of the Chilean Navy at the Desventuradas and the subsequent pseudo-blockade by the United States so devastating to the Chilean economy - an economy already in decline from its late Belle Epoque heights was given a grievous body blow from which it never recovered.
The Crewe Note that had mandated that trade lanes across the Atlantic remain open was generally inferred to apply to the Pacific as well, but it had largely been American, Mexican, Peruvian and Chilean shipping that had dominated the eastern Pacific once past Tehuantepec or the Panama isthmus, and it was just European-flagged vessels that were held to be immune from seizure and impoundment. The security of the Nicaragua Canal was mostly intact but many European insurers were nonetheless reluctant to touch plans to sail into the active warzone in the Caribbean which had nearly halved trade with Mexico in comparison with the United States or Confederate States; the situation on the other side of the Central American Isthmus was worse, as the United States reserved the right to refuse passage through the Nicaragua Canal in the time of war to any vessel that may be carrying contraband to Chile or Mexico's Pacific ports, and thus began a process where European vessels rather than take the risk would stopover in the far Caribbean, switch their cargo to an American, Colombian or Venezuelan ship, and then evacuate. Even Britain was cutting short the extent of its routes, which meant that crucial foreign trade to Chile had almost entirely collapsed from external sources and her own robust merchant marine and budding fishing fleets were fair game now that her coasts were almost entirely unprotected. [2]
The (at last successful and long-delayed) start of the American invasion of Chile in November of 1914 thus presaged one of the most dramatic economic collapses in the history of mankind. The economic headwinds for Chile had been long-brewing and public contempt for Las Oligarcas who ran the country's Congress and Presidency as a personal fiefdom was at an all-time high. Food prices spiked, government and business revenues plunged, and the rising numbers of unemployed or underpaid were haughtily asked why, with all their idle time, they were not volunteering to go fight the Yanqui invader? The conditions for the social eruption that brought down the Republica Oligarca, as the epoch is still known today, were ripe, and they were founded in very straightforward commercial and economic impulses..."
- Total Mobilization: The Economics of the Great American War
[1] To the looming dismay of Peru and Bolivia when they take back their lost lands from 1881 and realize they missed the boat on Chile's Saltpeter Boom
[2] Hey remember that time I started casually throwing around references to Hungary in October/November 1918
...on the bright side, at least Bolivia gets its coastline back?
Excited to actually write out what I have in mind for Chile’s exit from the war, that’s for sure
Very true, and honestly probably what Bolivia actually cares about
A Bolivia that A - gets its coastline back and B - gets at least some American goodwill for joining thier side (never mind how poorly they fought, they did sign up on to fight) is almost certainly going to have a far better 20th Century.
Hey, at least both countries get to be in on the incoming Copper Boom, as OTL Northern Chile is the center of major copper mines that were the subject of intense debate when Allende nationalized them during his ill-fated presidential term. Additionally, the fact that Bolivia is set to be even more dominant in the world's lithium supplies is...interesting.
Oh, absolutely. Low bar to clear, granted.
True! Eyeballing it the territories they’d pick up account for about 40% or so of Chile’s prime copper belt, which is nothing to sneer at.
I’ve been meaning to get into the lithium trade in the Cincoverse update actually since Bolivia, Argentina and a way lesser extent Chile would be dominant on that front
ITTL, what are Virginia's most important, industrious, populated, and/or valuable cities? Other than Richmond of course. Is it much different from OTL at this time? Have many of them fallen to the US yet?
Alexandria is in US hands but it’s probably less important sans the CS being part of the US
so other than that, I’d say Richmond, Lynchburg, Petersburg as an industrial triangle, then Big Stone Gap as a smaller mining/railroading hub and then the port agglomeration at Norfolk/Newport News
Basically, though it’s a long game even there
Some important names for ITTL coming up who were OTL’s minnows
So in theory, if the US intends to take parts of northern Virginia after the war, Alexandria would be the only significant place they would annex, because the rest are located in the southern half of the state.
My thoughts were originally that the US would take the Delmarva peninsula and everything north of the Rappahannock for Maryland, and everything west of the Shenandoah for West Virginia, with an occupation of the rest of the state to essentially strip it of large chunks of industry to take north (probably to Maryland to rebuild). They'd have to be satisfied with coal as the main resource they'd get from there. I imagine some war hawks may push to annex as far south as the James River, which would give the US about half the state including Richmond, but that would probably lead to a lot of issues in the short term.
Can't imagine the US annexing half of Virginia. By this point everything between the Susquehanna and the Rapphannock is a burned out husk, and I have little doubt the US Army will be more then happy to rend unto Richmond and Norfolk and Roanoke what has been inflicted upon Baltimore, and Washington, and Harrisburg.
There's going to very little of value in NoVA, nothing of value the US could want except perhaps the symbolism of Arlington Heights and Lee's estate. The US doesn't want disgruntled Confederates nor the tab of rebuilding rebel territory. I think the probable outcome is the US Annexation of everything North of the Occoquan for some added buffer space for D.C/national cemetery/an armed camp for any possible 'punitive expedition' south, and a DMZ stretching from the North of Rappahannock to the Shenandoah valley.
There's going to very little of value in NoVA, nothing of value the US could want except perhaps the symbolism of Arlington Heights and Lee's estate. The US doesn't want disgruntled Confederates nor the tab of rebuilding rebel territory. I think the probable outcome is the US Annexation of everything North of the Occoquan for some added buffer space for D.C/national cemetery/an armed camp for any possible 'punitive expedition' south, and a DMZ stretching from the North of Rappahannock to the Shenandoah valley.
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