Anglo-Japanese Alliance vs Moscow-Berlin Axis

Eth0

This concept is based on an idea in an Alternate History discussion around the Second Sino Japanese war, which I unfortunately cannot find. One reply discussed the possibility mentioned the possibility of Germany backing China and easing relations with Russia to continue the offensive on the Western Front, both Japan and England could find themselves as strange bedfellows, though the idea was lost among replies.

Suggestions for POD's include Germany keeping their advisors in China, Japan breaking ties to Germany in disgust for the Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression Pact, and fewer Japanese War Crimes that turned off the Allies. Try to keep P.O.D's after 1932 if possible.

This is by no means a likely scenario, but I simply like the idea of the combined Land forces of Germany and U.S.S.R versus the two Naval powers, plus the cultural clashes that would be experienced among both sides. Discuss how this scenario might play out and possible fronts, and how the nations would interact.
 
MichaelWest

MichaelWest

Frankly 1932 might simply be too late unless you butterfly the Nazi rise and seizure of power. A surviving Weimar Republic likely doubles down in China on China and given their cordial relations with the USSR and the USSR preference toward the KNT I could see you getting this outcome. But that butterflies the Fall of France, and so much else too.

Perhaps what you need is a failed Washington Naval treaty that sets the USA and UK into a post-war naval arms race with renewed suspicions and the UK feeling compelled to hold Japan as its ally in Asia. Interestingly the British steered the German possession in Micronesia to Japan as a hedge to American supremacy should they secure that obvious path to the Philippines so you have some grist for USA and UK spoiling the relationship we came to see bear fruit mostly in response to Japanese aggression. You need to overcome the fact that the British held some 40% of investment in China that Japan seems to be set to ruin in the war breaks out as it did in 1931. But if Japan merely acts to secure Manchuria and the UK sells Japan Persian oil then its gets rather murky. Add that the USA and UK had cross cutting agendas over Germany and Asia and colonialism and you are unravelling a lot.
 

Carl Schwamberger

I'd reach further back & change the character of the Japanese government not later than the 1920s. Maybe a Korean revolt circa 1900 bankrupts Japan in its effort to suppress the rebels. Perhaps the war with Russia bankrupts Japan. Maybe the Brits are more clever & retain Japan as a client state after the 1920s.
 
MichaelWest

MichaelWest

Geon said:
I posted this link elsewhere for a similar discussion. It is rather tongue-in-cheek but it proposes how such an alliance would come about. Here Nazi Germany aligns with Soviet Russia and Japan aligns with the Western powers.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/dtormsen/Nazi-Soviet_Axis.htm
Click to expand...

Not to be a naysayer but I feel that long term the USSR and Nazi Germany are on a collision course, any accommodations were like two fighters circling the ring waiting for the bell. The history seems to support how these two simply could not be at peace for long, even if you do not believe Stalin was as much a conqueror as Hitler, Hitler absolutely was rabid in his hate and coveted the East for both a rebirth of Germany through war as much as for land, spoils and myth. Even a global coalition against him would derail his fantasy. So if we have Nazi Germany then I suspect you really need Hitler falling out of the picture. The USSR has no qualms of burning the west to the ground, so I opine that Stalin will leverage this to set the world into revolutionary blaze, turn on Germany and put Europe to heel at whatever opportunity he finds. A rather bleak story could arise nonetheless.
 
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