That seems to be King Sweden's intent.Is the US going to take the Baja Peninsula in a peace agreement with Mexico?
It seems like it to me as well. Taking Baja California would safeguard Southern California in case of future conflict and give the US to the gulf of California.That seems to be King Sweden's intent.
While Mexico *might* avoid it due to wanting to have strong relations with the Confederacy, I'm not sure that Chile's deliberate alignment with those nations which opposed emancipation really doesn't happen until the 1880s, I think.Don't see why they wouldn't, since there's nothing ideologically offensive about Haiti to, say, Mexico or Centro or Chile (Brazil may, like the CS, be another story).
I imagine you'd see some kind of economic suzerainty over Haiti by the CS, which probably gets Mexico's sign-off if Richmond agrees to end its shenanigans in support of Standard Fruit in Centro and just lets that finally become the Empire's economic and political backyard. Whether the CS is dumb enough to try to incorporate Haiti as some kind of slave state afterwards... well, that's on them. (There was a German financial elite in Haiti at this point in time, but it was pretty small)
I’ve never claimed the Confederates were smart!While Mexico *might* avoid it due to wanting to have strong relations with the Confederacy, I'm not sure that Chile's deliberate alignment with those nations which opposed emancipation really doesn't happen until the 1880s, I think.
Trying to reduce Haiti to a slave state would be a *complete* mess as the United States would probably leave enough weaponry (and probably supply through the DR) to keep it as a running sore for Decades. In the US, I don't think there were significant areas (even in places like the black belt) where whites were outnumbered 20-1, but Haiti would probably be at least that for decades.
🤐Is the US going to take the Baja Peninsula in a peace agreement with Mexico?
That being said there’s a certain part of me that sees an appeal in basically swapping Baja and Hawaii in terms of its role in the US as “mega naval station but also internal tropical vacation/retirement spot”It seems like it to me as well. Taking Baja California would safeguard Southern California in case of future conflict and give the US to the gulf of California.
Plus I just really enjoy TLs where Baja is added to the US for some reason lol
So what does Mexico give after killing so many US Citizens?Ah, the irony of Pancho Villa and Pershing fighting together. So it seems sooner than later Mexico will be exiting the war (depending on Pershing's campaign, of course). I still hope that whatever penalties the US imposes Mexico in the peace treaty, the cession of the Baja California peninsula isn't one of them. As I've said before, it'd be refreshing to see a timeline where Mexico manages to keep the peninsula (as it seems TL writers on the site love giving it to the USA, whether during the OTL war or another conflict decades later).
War reparations, benefits for US companies in Mexican soil, turn back any nationalization reform and assurance that the interests of said companies will be respected.So what does Mexico give after killing so many US Citizens?
In the chapter about Mexico joining the war, a high government official or general (don't remember which) indicated that Mexico would have to choose between land and treasure to get out of the war. It seems to come down to *either* Mexico goes back to the pre-war situation where the Americans controlled more of the Mexican economy than many were comfortable politically *and* the borders don't change *or* Mexico gives up Baja and the US cares less about their Nationalistic moves. (Reparations would probably be part of things anyway).So what does Mexico give after killing so many US Citizens?
Glad you appreciate the irony! HahaAh, the irony of Pancho Villa and Pershing fighting together. So it seems sooner than later Mexico will be exiting the war (depending on Pershing's campaign, of course). I still hope that whatever penalties the US imposes Mexico in the peace treaty, the cession of the Baja California peninsula isn't one of them. As I've said before, it'd be refreshing to see a timeline where Mexico manages to keep the peninsula (as it seems TL writers on the site love giving it to the USA, whether during the OTL war or another conflict decades later).
War reparations, benefits for US companies in Mexican soil, turn back any nationalization reform and assurance that the interests of said companies will be respected.
Right, this is the key to the internal tension I have on what way Mexico goes and what Philly is willing to accept, and why I take the argument presented by @Capibara seriously. Mexico can get out of the war but at a price. The motivations for Mexico entering the war (and my personal thumb-on-scale motivation for getting them to Southern European levels of development/standard of living by 2023) were after all a strong dose of economic nationalism that brought together an otherwise very opposed right and left, which as Pancho Villa’s entry into the story here shows is still coming to violence even in the middle of a fucking war. With this in mind, I’ve always leaned towards Mexico choosing to punt Baja to the wolves to sustain a healthy dose of economic nationalism - otherwise, what was the war and their early exit for?In the chapter about Mexico joining the war, a high government official or general (don't remember which) indicated that Mexico would have to choose between land and treasure to get out of the war. It seems to come down to *either* Mexico goes back to the pre-war situation where the Americans controlled more of the Mexican economy than many were comfortable politically *and* the borders don't change *or* Mexico gives up Baja and the US cares less about their Nationalistic moves. (Reparations would probably be part of things anyway).
Though honestly, I would imagine in Philadelphia if Mexico signed a peace treaty at the point where we are in the story, the US would be *close* to accepting just money. After Nashville and the CSN fall, OTOH...
LolMayo!? Oh man i love Mayo, always get it on my chicken rolls and burgers... unless we're talking about County Mayo. Do you guys think they'll ever beat Dublin in Football?
Personally either a demilitarized zone in Mexico or naval concessions that allows the USN another base to support the Canal Zone would be more unique and still be substantial gains. Taking all of Baja looks good on a map but it doesn’t really give the US anything of major strategic value that geographically smaller gains would also.Glad you appreciate the irony! Haha
Right, this is the key to the internal tension I have on what way Mexico goes and what Philly is willing to accept, and why I take the argument presented by @Capibara seriously. Mexico can get out of the war but at a price. The motivations for Mexico entering the war (and my personal thumb-on-scale motivation for getting them to Southern European levels of development/standard of living by 2023) were after all a strong dose of economic nationalism that brought together an otherwise very opposed right and left, which as Pancho Villa’s entry into the story here shows is still coming to violence even in the middle of a fucking war. With this in mind, I’ve always leaned towards Mexico choosing to punt Baja to the wolves to sustain a healthy dose of economic nationalism - otherwise, what was the war and their early exit for?
That said, @Capibara is right that a lot of TLs lazily paint Baja California the same color as the US on a map. My weird OCD side is interested in what a US-held Baja that is it’s own state would look like (almost certainly plurality if not majority Hispanic, I’d imagine - hence my comparisons of making it “Latino Hawaii”) rather than the lazy muh US Baja trope, but it is true that blood and soil Mexican nationalism would react very poorly to being forced to offload more land to El Yanqui yet again at gunpoint to exit a war they stumbled into.
I’m sure it’s obvious which way I’m leaning but hopefully that outlines my thought process a bit
Lol
Agree, naval concessions would achieve similar results to ceding all the peninsula and Mexico would be more inclined to agree to it. At this point, even with the extra development of Mexico TTL, Baja California should pretty much still be mostly small settlements and cities, with lots of desert in between. As you pointed out, the US wouldn't be getting much out of the land cession and its more probable that it would result in cool relations between the 2 countries for longer than if only reparations and naval bases are expected from the Mexicans.Personally either a demilitarized zone in Mexico or naval concessions that allows the USN another base to support the Canal Zone would be more unique and still be substantial gains. Taking all of Baja looks good on a map but it doesn’t really give the US anything of major strategic value that geographically smaller gains would also.
Edit: Think Cabo San Lucas being a Mexican Guantanamo, for example
Personally either a demilitarized zone in Mexico or naval concessions that allows the USN another base to support the Canal Zone would be more unique and still be substantial gains. Taking all of Baja looks good on a map but it doesn’t really give the US anything of major strategic value that geographically smaller gains would also.
Edit: Think Cabo San Lucas being a Mexican Guantanamo, for example
Bahia de Magdalena up the coast from Los Cabos would probably be a more straightforward/strategic naval base if wereAgree, naval concessions would achieve similar results to ceding all the peninsula and Mexico would be more inclined to agree to it. At this point, even with the extra development of Mexico TTL, Baja California should pretty much still be mostly small settlements and cities, with lots of desert in between. As you pointed out, the US wouldn't be getting much out of the land cession and its more probable that it would result in cool relations between the 2 countries for longer than if only reparations and naval bases are expected from the Mexicans.
I’ll leave the specifics up the the boys at the State Department in Philly.Bahia de Magdalena up the coast from Los Cabos would probably be a more straightforward/strategic naval base if were
Looking for Guantanamo parallels (much as I love Cabo its immediate bay isn’t great as a naval port).
But, yes, Baja would basically strike many as “hot Alaska” in terms of its value if used as the main pick up from the war in a land cession considering its sparse population
That said, @Capibara is right that a lot of TLs lazily paint Baja California the same color as the US on a map. My weird OCD side is interested in what a US-held Baja that is it’s own state would look like (almost certainly plurality if not majority Hispanic, I’d imagine - hence my comparisons of making it “Latino Hawaii”) rather than the lazy muh US Baja trope, but it is true that blood and soil Mexican nationalism would react very poorly to being forced to offload more land to El Yanqui yet again at gunpoint to exit a war they stumbled into.
I’m sure it’s obvious which way I’m leaning but hopefully that outlines my thought process a bit
Lol