Daenerys pre-S8 at least listened and cared about the people around her. In his eyes, Wilson was chosen by God, so obviously nothing he ever did was wrong.
Place In the Sun: What If Italy Joined the Central Powers? (1.0)
- Thread starter Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
- Start date
Yeah Wilson was divorced from reality, living in his own fantasy world of “‘Murica fuck yeah!”
Yup. Fortunately, the world is spared all that here... imagine what a mess he'd make of the Danubian Civil War...
I completely agree. Hopefully, Charles Evans Hughes and his successors won't make the same "world policeman" mistake.
Good job he won't have another term to spread his neo-Confederate rubbish. And I can only imagine the look on his face when Charles Evans Hughes ordered the forcible integration of the military 30 years early...
I don't think any PoD in the 1910s can do away with "Murica fuck yeah!", but CEH's not putting out the 14 Points, and focussing on Mexico instead, will hopefully set a precedent in TTL for the US not to stick its fingers across the Atlantic.
He's gone back to his prewar teaching gig and is watching the rise of Sorelianism with interest.
Well, speaking as an American, the problem isn't so much AMURICA FUCK YEAH as 'Amurica Fuck Yeah means we get to invade other people and try to make them act like americans'.
War, if fought, should be for national interest or to prevent genocides, not abstract principles like imposing new systems of government, economics, etc, except insofar as they are absolutely servicing national interest or stopping genocide (i.e. overthrowing a genocidal regime is good)
War, if fought, should be for national interest or to prevent genocides, not abstract principles like imposing new systems of government, economics, etc, except insofar as they are absolutely servicing national interest or stopping genocide (i.e. overthrowing a genocidal regime is good)
That's probably enough to qualify on its own by the 1910s.
He also played a part in engineering the Anglo-Japanese split (see above), took a lukewarm stance on the Russian Civil War that made the Bolsheviks pissed off at the Americans without destroying them, and forced Germany to abandon the monarchy, thus opening the way for political instability in a weaker republican government. And I'm probably forgetting six dozen things besides.
Agree with all of you. My own thoughts about him can be summed up like this:
When while watching the UBERwoke Netflix Sitcom Mr Inglesias, I saw that it takes place at the "Woodrow Wilson High School" my eyes nearly rolled out of my sockets at this display of historical ignorance by the writers.
The real question did his racism have any real influence on the future development of India. From what I know of the man he mainly looked down on Africans, but as the African population of India are very limited in size and Ghandi doesn’t seem to have any effect on the treatment of them, I don’t really see why it matters that he was a racist toward them.
Especially since these days places named after him are getting renamed, in light of his historical legacy. For instance, there's the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs, originally named after but since renamed by the Board of Trustees earlier this year. Thank God. Anyway, I'll digress on this specific point (i.e. modern day reevaluation of Wilson's legacy) as it's getting quite close to current affairs.
I'm normally quite opposed to the re-naming thing, but I'm not averse to placing that man into ignonimy.
Well, if they gain complete control of Manchuria and parts of the Russian Far East that matter - Northern Sakhalin, the Maritime Province, Khabarovsk, the Trans-Amur, and Outer Manchuria - that would sate Japan's imperial ambitions. Both Inner and Outer Manchuria have all the resources Japan needs to become effectively self-sufficiently, such as coal, oil, and metal. Their satellites in SE Asia provide rubber, and going back to Manchuria, plenty of land for settlers, enough maybe to divert the flow of immigrants from the USA, removing another roadblock to decent US-Japan relations. Manchuria could also provide a lot of food for Japan.
Of course, it'll take time to develop all that, but that only means Japan would have less time to go play in other parts of the world. The army would also probably be less inclined to strike into China, and more into defending Japan's rich colonial territory in Northeast Asia. Add to that the Anglosphere's moderating influence and even an example to follow for the Taisho Democracy, yeah, Japan turning into the fascist hellhole of OTL might just be butterflied away.
One can hope...
Edit: It's by no means a given, of course- the Japanese might get Victory Disease and go after the British like OTL.
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Hoyahoo9
Donor
Wilson also ran roughshod over the U.S. Constitution and the rights of Americans by using the war as an excuse to suspend habeas corpus and thereby throttle the press and arrest anyone he deemed critical of him, his administration and its actions. "The Illusion of Victory" by Thomas Fleming is a good source book for a highly critical view of the Wilson presidency.
Gandhi was a rather major factor in the developing of a common national identity in India. Without his influence in an independence movement, India may not be one country like it is today (excepting Pakistan and Bangladesh there, of course). Now it is very possible this may happen without him as well, the idea of India is one that is thousands of years old (though more as a landmass rather than as a nation-state).
Other than this, his influence on OTL India is actually very little, given that he died in 1948. His only real influence was through Nehru, which brought about a sober, incorruptible class of politicians in the 50s and 60s and a rather naïve, romantic foreign policy and a viewpoint of seeing an Armed Forces for the country as unnecessary which quickly came to an end after the crushing defeat at the hands of China in the Sino-Indian War of 1962.
A minor quibble @Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth : It's Angrezi ghar jao! rather than Angregi ghar jao!
Thanks for your feedback with regards to India- it seems like Gandhi's role in this TL will be less than OTL's, which opens up the way for 'fun' developments from me.
Aah, bloody Google Translate does it again! Thanks for spotting that.
What a....
Well, I'm sure Eugene Debs has a few things to say about the Second Mexican War but he certainly wouldn't get thrown in prison for that here.
The Illusion of Victory? Thanks for mentioning that!
No problem 👍 Google Translate is terrible at translating Indian languages. Is it the same way with European ones too?Thanks for your feedback with regards to India- it seems like Gandhi's role in this TL will be less than OTL's, which opens up the way for 'fun' developments from me.
Aah, bloody Google Translate does it again! Thanks for spotting that.
Without Gandhi, the independence movement will be very different. I'm looking forward to it!
ITTL, he did something similar after losing the 1916 election. That is, Wilson issued an executive order transferring $500 million from the US Treasury to J.P. Morgan, to cover the latter's losses after the Anglo-French collateral proved only able to cover around ~75% of their debts. And Wilson did so without consulting either the President-Elect or Congress. Naturally, it had Hughes, Congress, and constitutional lawyers up in arms, and which Hughes immediately took J.P. Morgan to court for after he was sworn in as President of the United States.
Typically, J.P. Morgan held his ground and claimed Wilson had every right to do as he did, and it's not any of Hughes' business. He forced the matter to go to the Supreme Court which finally ruled 5-4 that Wilson had no authority whatsoever to do what he did, and ordered J.P. Morgan to return the $500 million to the US Treasury.
The only reason Hughes didn't drag Wilson to court was that he didn't want to set a precedent for personally prosecuting a former president, besides, just setting precedent that big time corporations are not above the law much less the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES was apparently enough for Hughes. That, and by declaring his actions unconstitutional, Hughes - through the Supreme Court - had already managed to tar Wilson's reputation.
Speaking of which, @Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth, did J.P. Morgan appeal the Supreme Court ruling? Did the order to return the money to the government account for inflation/deflation?