Yeah I was definitely wrong about America winning this war, barring something extraordinary. If there aren't any more contested naval battles, the Alliance shouldn't win this thing.
Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
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The USA and GA should seek peace with Japan and India. They have little hope, now, of re-conquering South Asia, let alone invading Japan, Korea, China or India. The naval and aerial war hurts both sides pointlessly, and the Asian bloc has won the land war.
Even if the GA spends a decade winning the aerial and naval war, by then, the coasts and islands of East and South Asia will be heavily fortified, and the Asian bloc can potentially call on dozens of millions of soldiers for very long. And even if the GA still wins despite that, it will mean dozens of millions of KIA + occupying East and South Asia, a logistical nightmare, a quagmire of guerilla.
And of course, while they do that, the Draka grow stronger and might dominate Europe (and Russia).
So rationally, the GA should seek terms with the Asians.
But then, there's the hysteria caused by the Japanese traitorious attack, the wounded pride, the matter of elections and personal legacy (no politician wants to be remembered as "the president who bowed to the Japs"), etc.
Imo the only hope of taking out Japan is some "Around the Maginot" type attack through Russia and just hope they're too busy dealing the the Pan Europeans to actually stop the GA... I'd really like to see that turnaround but it doesn't look to be in the cards.
Sounds like the freaking mother of all logistical nightmares, not to mention the risk to bring Drakia in the war and lead the Societist states to ally with the Indo-Japanese.
not if they just take eastern russia by pacfic coast and maybe a little farther inland
Invading through Siberia is a very very bad idea. It would bring Drakia, Rhomania, Britain and Russia into the Pacific War, leading to an invasion of Alliance members in Europe and Middle East.
Also, the US would have to transport hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of soldiers with their weaponry and supplies across the Pacific, facing the IJN, IJAAF, and Chinese/Japanese/Russian troops waiting for them on the coast.
It would be like Overlord but with the Luftwaffe and KM still fighting (as peer enemies), and going directly from America to France (instead of having Britain as a springboard).
Then, if they want it to work, they have to land in northern Siberia, far enough from Japan and China. But that also means crossing thousands of kilometers of hostile underdeveloped land. And when the US Army eventually reaches China, it would face a well-prepared and entrenched Japanese and Chinese army, fortified cities, etc.
While the Societists roll over Arabia, Ireland, France, etc.
Also, the US would have to transport hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of soldiers with their weaponry and supplies across the Pacific, facing the IJN, IJAAF, and Chinese/Japanese/Russian troops waiting for them on the coast.
It would be like Overlord but with the Luftwaffe and KM still fighting (as peer enemies), and going directly from America to France (instead of having Britain as a springboard).
Then, if they want it to work, they have to land in northern Siberia, far enough from Japan and China. But that also means crossing thousands of kilometers of hostile underdeveloped land. And when the US Army eventually reaches China, it would face a well-prepared and entrenched Japanese and Chinese army, fortified cities, etc.
While the Societists roll over Arabia, Ireland, France, etc.
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With chemical and biological weapons being used as much as it is ITTL, I wonder what will happens once nuclear weapons are invented (if they are invented)😏...I guess it won't b e prety...
Has there been international attempt to make treaties reducing/limiting the use of WMDs or no because of the extreme ideologies of certain countries in this TL?
Has there been international attempt to make treaties reducing/limiting the use of WMDs or no because of the extreme ideologies of certain countries in this TL?
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Either Japan winning that naval battle with the US was the Nat 20 or Washington is going to pull sort of amazing completely bonkers maneuver that's going to win the war
One point I just thought of, what if the Rex bloc is successful long-term in politically outmaneuvering the post-Stoker disordered Drakian dictatorship and able to completely undermine their tenuous occupation of Spain and basically win as the "good" guys and keep Europe out of the claws of this generation's Dragon. After all there are countless historical examples of even wildly successful empires having to reconquer some regions several times over to make it finally stick and Drakia is currently only allied with "little Drakia" Rhomania and Perfidious Albion in their foolhardy attempt to make the Mediterranean a Societist lake. This is all well and good but at this point with the Drakians given the bloody nose they so rightfully deserve and properly checked in the north... where now do the European and Drakian spheres of influence interact? What points of concrete hostility do the Rex and the Societists share?
Fundamentally Drakia is not in a position to establish a stable balance of power directing the concert of Europe while all the Rexists really need to do is reduce the current government of Rhomania, she of the even-for-Societists-resoundingly-unstable-empire, to end up in a "natural" division of interests. In this universe Britain is a sad husk who has repeatedly backed the wrong horse and tried to single-handedly defy the rest of the continent before, so is honestly able to be isolated and ignored by the Rex. All that really leaves is again Rhomania who by being such an unacceptable thorn in Europe's side and constantly aggravating them becomes suddenly a real liability to a Drakia that now has no skin in the game and might be geopolitically pivoting to fence with other powers like a freshly empowered United States of India. If Drakia cuts a deal to betray Rhomania to the Rex and sets up such a "natural" non-belligerence, what material catalyst do the Rex have to truly invest in attacking the Drakian state? If after all it's no longer "their" people under threat of Bonded Labor, might such a ceasefire develop into a full blown detente with the Drakians now "safely" back in Africa and thus out of mind? A strongly principled government based on egalitarian principles could easily keep the flame of hatred alive through the vast powers availed to 20th century media and communication, but conversely how much could a government such as the disturbingly Fascist-adjacent Rex use those powers to smother it and quiet any outcry?
Much like how in OTL that grand "army with a state" in Prussia was only saved in the post-Napoleonic wrangling by their patron Russia, so too could the Drakia be granted an undeserved reprieve wrought by the diplomatic games of those who have them at their mercy.
Fundamentally Drakia is not in a position to establish a stable balance of power directing the concert of Europe while all the Rexists really need to do is reduce the current government of Rhomania, she of the even-for-Societists-resoundingly-unstable-empire, to end up in a "natural" division of interests. In this universe Britain is a sad husk who has repeatedly backed the wrong horse and tried to single-handedly defy the rest of the continent before, so is honestly able to be isolated and ignored by the Rex. All that really leaves is again Rhomania who by being such an unacceptable thorn in Europe's side and constantly aggravating them becomes suddenly a real liability to a Drakia that now has no skin in the game and might be geopolitically pivoting to fence with other powers like a freshly empowered United States of India. If Drakia cuts a deal to betray Rhomania to the Rex and sets up such a "natural" non-belligerence, what material catalyst do the Rex have to truly invest in attacking the Drakian state? If after all it's no longer "their" people under threat of Bonded Labor, might such a ceasefire develop into a full blown detente with the Drakians now "safely" back in Africa and thus out of mind? A strongly principled government based on egalitarian principles could easily keep the flame of hatred alive through the vast powers availed to 20th century media and communication, but conversely how much could a government such as the disturbingly Fascist-adjacent Rex use those powers to smother it and quiet any outcry?
Much like how in OTL that grand "army with a state" in Prussia was only saved in the post-Napoleonic wrangling by their patron Russia, so too could the Drakia be granted an undeserved reprieve wrought by the diplomatic games of those who have them at their mercy.
Hello! I'm just checking out this timeline! I must say, quite interesting. I'm working to keep up with the names of various ideologies, but if anything that indicates how much you've tried to make this a true alternate universe. The Pacific War is very fun to read about, though with each update I'm always a bit discouraged that the somewhat sympathetic factions with skeletons in their closets (*USA and GEACPS) are killing each other with chemical weapons while the theocratic slavocracy that would like nothing better than to put many of the residents of both into labor camps keeps expanding.
I do not think that Drakia would be fine with being ejected from Spain, and if they hold onto Iberia, the pan-Europeans would not really be comfortable about them. And there's also Sardinia.
(I forgot who has Cyprus by now).
Actually, now that I'm looking at the scale of destruction caused by the Great Pacific War and the prevalence of gun-based jet fighter combat, I had an idea. If Japan survives, instead of Godzilla might we get a space exploration/space opera franchise? There'd be strong military overtones, given their Heinlein-esque organization of Imperial Democracy.
Allow me to present:
Allow me to present:
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Ooh, that sounds like a good pop culture tie in! Maybe after the war is over you could write up a interlude on it?
Ephraim Ben Raphael
Banned
Not really. America is focusing its resources on the war in the Pacific, even if there isn't much fighting on land happening there, and with Drakia totally dedicated to a bloody struggle against the Pan-European Pact it doesn't seem worth it. The only exceptions are the newly liberated Canary Islands and France, which has mobilized its army but only sent a small portion of that army to the Pacific (most of its Navy and Air Force are there though), and is actively preparing in case of a Societist invasion.
Let's see, Jamaica, the Lesser Antilles, and the Spanish Republic-in-exile are military and economic satellites of the USA just because of how big America is and how tiny they are. Colombia is under an American-backed puppet government, La Plata actually likes the USA (Buenos Aires and New York have a genuinely friendly relationship), Peru is ruled by an oligarchy, and Brazil is Brazil.
It's entirely possible to pry Colombia out of America's sphere, if you could remove the puppet government the Colombians are hardly the world's biggest fans of the USA. The Peruvians you could lure out through self-interest. Brazil is difficult to say, they're strong enough to want less American influence, but they've benefited a fair bit from their relationship with the Americans, so maybe?
The only New World countries are the Bahamas and Guyana, both of which are neutral British dominions.
Japanese military occupation. I'm using it to distinguish between placed like Korea that have a degree of autonomy and equal rights within the Japanese Empire, and places like Insulindia that aren't officially part of "Japan".
With chemical and biological weapons being used as much as it is ITTL, I wonder what will happens once nuclear weapons are invented (if they are invented)😏...I guess it won't b e prety...
Has there been international attempt to make treaties reducing/limiting the use of WMDs or no because of the extreme ideologies of certain countries in this TL?
There have been attempts, but so far the people who would need to get onboard with those attempts have refused to do so. Partly that's because of extremist ideologies, and partly that's because people are afraid of falling behind their rivals and enemies.
Welcome!
I'm glad you're enjoying the various ideologies, one of my favorite parts of writing this TL has been messing with all of the ideologies. We just have one more big one to meet- Situationism- and you're not going to hear much more about Geoism going forward.
As for the Pacific War and the Great Patriotic War- I'm honestly getting kind of tired of writing about them myself. But don't worry, things will get brighter eventually.
Rhomania, they ethnic cleansed most of the Turks who were living there before.
I'd be willing to write it up post-Pacific War, if Ephraim Ben Raphael is okay with it! I'd need to do some research to make sure I followed actual Japanese naming conventions and such. I'm thinking of a mix of Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek TOS (and obviously there's a parallel to Space Battleship Yamato).
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