If the Allies know how badly damaged the IJN carriers are, is it possible the FAA might go after the IJN battleline?
Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2
- Thread starter fester
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Assuming TF17 is not going to launch a further strike
It is now 15:30
Allowing for earlier losses Force Q has 60+ avengers and 18+ Albacores as potential torpedo strikers or search
plus 35+ Marlets (aka Wildcats), 25+ Seafires and 20+ Sea Hurricanes as fighters
Keeping the Albacores as ASW , the Hurris as ForceCap and the SeaFires as BarCap for the other Task Groups.
Launch initial sections now maintain till dusk (ASW into the night)
that leaves a handy strike by day or night. Maybe one wave , maybe two.
Ready for one wave fighters and torpedos for 16:00 takeoff.
The KB's position is known. It is closer to Lee's battle line, the landing site and all 3 CV groups. Seemingly the more immediate danger
Depending on how accurate TF-17's claims are it may have no functional deck (or perhaps one with damage)
but certainly has two Kongo BCs plus CAs etc so its AA is fair by day but essentially useless by night.
The enemies main force is larger, 7BBs and support so its AA will be fiercer. It even has a CVL in support.
Reasonable defense by day , however like the KB it's much more vulnerable to a night attack.
Moreover it is much further north and less precisely located.
So
If a day strike can be managed, go for the KB. Launch at 16:30 or earlier.
the main targets should be the BCs and CAs to eliminate any possible threat itself and any reinforcement of the main body.
(The CV is bonus is they can hit it)
Yamamoto will find no help as he sweeps south. In the growing darkness his CVL is no use.
Leave as a guard of the KBs cripples.
On TF-17 land the strike , refuel and rearm. Priority on fighters and a few search planes (Dauntless?)
Let the Wildcats take over Forcecap and Barcap for Lee from the Seafires.
17:00 send the Dauntless search north of Lee's battle line during the remaining daylight
With Force Q, maintain the cycle of ASW and Forcecap.
17:00 Recover the strike survivors. No problem here with evening landing.
Assume 40+ avengers are available. Give priority to any with ASV. Load these with flares.
They become pickets north of Lee as Darkness falls at 19:00
Spot the remaining 30+ Avengers for a night strike with orders to concentrate attacks on the weaker BBs.
Avoid the big bastards ... better to take down 2 or perhaps more Ise than waste fish against better defenses.
At least one strike at say 21:00, 2 Japanese BBs fall out of line/sunk.
01:00 Yamamoto gets his wish for a ship on ship and gun vs gun action
but at a numerical disadvantage in battleships, cruisers and destroyers.
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That would be formidable strike. Powerful enough for a night attack on the Yamato and/or Musashi.
Right now there is no indication that the Allies know where the Japanese battleships are at the moment, though presumably further north then Nagumo's carriers. Finishing off any of Nagumo's cripples, while making any of their escorts a secondary target is the best move.
That and once Yamamoto learns that Nagumo is gone, more then likely he will probably withdraw during the night.
Looking at the map on page 39, Yamamoto is actually several hundred miles behind Nagumo, so he has plenty of time and distance to withdraw under darkness.
Right now according to Fester's spreadsheet, the Japanese have lost Akagi, Soryu, and Junyo, two battleships/battlecruisers/whatever, 4 heavy cruisers, and 2 destroyers.
That and once Yamamoto learns that Nagumo is gone, more then likely he will probably withdraw during the night.
Looking at the map on page 39, Yamamoto is actually several hundred miles behind Nagumo, so he has plenty of time and distance to withdraw under darkness.
Right now according to Fester's spreadsheet, the Japanese have lost Akagi, Soryu, and Junyo, two battleships/battlecruisers/whatever, 4 heavy cruisers, and 2 destroyers.
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Story 1785
Near Paleware 1530 January 2, 1943
The heavy cruiser Quincy accelerated. The seaplane had been winched aboard and the pilot had barely touched the deck before he headed to the bridge. The skipper had already received his radio message. At least half a dozen battleships and just as many cruisers were heading south at 23 knots. They would intersect with Quincy and the two small Dutch cruisers before midnight.
The Captain listened patiently to the scout. His face barely moved as he asked a few clarifying questions. Admirals Somerville, Kinkaid, Turner, Lee, Ghormley and most importantly Admiral Fletcher needed to know. This information was worth breaking radio silence. This information was worth placing a homing beacon on his ship and her smaller compatriots. This information was worth 2,000 lives.
Six minutes later, USS Quincy was broadcasting to all Allied ships afloat as well as to headquarters at Singapore, Surabaya, Darwin, Fremantle and Pearl Harbor that the Japanese battle line was at sea and heading south. He then ordered half his crew to take a ninety minute break to sleep and eat before having them relieve the other half. They would be going to their deaths tonight, but they would do so well fed and well rested so that they could do their jobs as well as possible.
The heavy cruiser Quincy accelerated. The seaplane had been winched aboard and the pilot had barely touched the deck before he headed to the bridge. The skipper had already received his radio message. At least half a dozen battleships and just as many cruisers were heading south at 23 knots. They would intersect with Quincy and the two small Dutch cruisers before midnight.
The Captain listened patiently to the scout. His face barely moved as he asked a few clarifying questions. Admirals Somerville, Kinkaid, Turner, Lee, Ghormley and most importantly Admiral Fletcher needed to know. This information was worth breaking radio silence. This information was worth placing a homing beacon on his ship and her smaller compatriots. This information was worth 2,000 lives.
Six minutes later, USS Quincy was broadcasting to all Allied ships afloat as well as to headquarters at Singapore, Surabaya, Darwin, Fremantle and Pearl Harbor that the Japanese battle line was at sea and heading south. He then ordered half his crew to take a ninety minute break to sleep and eat before having them relieve the other half. They would be going to their deaths tonight, but they would do so well fed and well rested so that they could do their jobs as well as possible.
And hopefully will be avenged quickly.
Is there any reason why the Quincy and her consorts can't evade the Japanese battle line? Are they pinned in place to protect the landings or is one of them too crippled? I've probably missed the post that would help me.
Unless of course the Admirals pull them back to join up with heavier forces??
Right now, the skipper is not sure where the USN/RN battle line is. His mission is to protect the beachhead. He will do his best to do so. If reinforced, that will make his job much simpler. If he is not reinforced, his job is very straightforward but not particularly simple.
Thanks Fester.
I'd suspected something like that. I hope their sacrifice buys time .For an FAA strike to delay the Japanese until the allied battle line can intervene.
Story 1786
Makassar Straits, 1600 January 2, 1943
He had heard nothing for an hour. A signal from Akagi had been cut-off in mid-message. Her planes had spotted at least five modern battleships near the destroyed American task force; KGVs and North Carolinas. They were heading north by north east. And then little else was heard. Chatter from fighter pilots could barely be heard and short range tactical radio sets from destroyers and cruisers were mostly heard as fuzz and garbles rather than messages.
He expected Kongo and Hiei screened by a destroyer division to join him by nightfall. They would be the advanced guard able to bull over any light cruiser screens before the main torpedo attack force could surge forward to wear down the American and British battle line and close escorts. From there, the battle cruisers would rejoin the line and he would have nine capital ships against five. Two of his ships were almost twice the size of the largest Allied battleship afloat so he effectively had twice the combat power of the spotted battle line. This was a battle that he and every other officer in the navy had sought and trained for since 1923. It was the battle the High Seas Fleet almost achieved during the Scarborough Raid and then had sought repeatedly without success since then.
The action of the captain of the Quincy reminds me of the following:
"Battle of Crete (May 1941)[edit]
Main article: Battle of Crete
British wounded evacuated to Alexandria
On the morning of 20 May 1941, Nazi Germany launched an airborne invasion of Crete, under the code-name Unternehmen Merkur (Operation Mercury). Despite initial heavy casualties,[43] Maleme airfield in western Crete fell to the Germans and enabled them to fly in heavy reinforcements and overwhelm the Allied forces.[43]
After a week of heavy fighting, British commanders decided that the situation was hopeless and ordered a withdrawal from Sfakia.[43] During the next four nights, 16,000 troops were evacuated to Egypt by ships (including HMS Ajax[43] of Battle of the River Plate fame). A smaller number of ships were to withdraw troops on a separate mission from Heraklion, but these ships were attacked en route by Luftwaffe dive bombers. Without air cover, Cunningham's ships suffered serious losses. Cunningham was determined, though, that the "navy must not let the army down", and when army generals feared he would lose too many ships, Cunningham famously said,
It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue.[44]
The "never say die" attitude of Cunningham and the men under his command meant that of 22,000 men on Crete, 16,500 were rescued but at the loss of three cruisers and six destroyers. Fifteen other major warships were damaged.[45]"
"Battle of Crete (May 1941)[edit]
Main article: Battle of Crete
British wounded evacuated to Alexandria
On the morning of 20 May 1941, Nazi Germany launched an airborne invasion of Crete, under the code-name Unternehmen Merkur (Operation Mercury). Despite initial heavy casualties,[43] Maleme airfield in western Crete fell to the Germans and enabled them to fly in heavy reinforcements and overwhelm the Allied forces.[43]
After a week of heavy fighting, British commanders decided that the situation was hopeless and ordered a withdrawal from Sfakia.[43] During the next four nights, 16,000 troops were evacuated to Egypt by ships (including HMS Ajax[43] of Battle of the River Plate fame). A smaller number of ships were to withdraw troops on a separate mission from Heraklion, but these ships were attacked en route by Luftwaffe dive bombers. Without air cover, Cunningham's ships suffered serious losses. Cunningham was determined, though, that the "navy must not let the army down", and when army generals feared he would lose too many ships, Cunningham famously said,
It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue.[44]
The "never say die" attitude of Cunningham and the men under his command meant that of 22,000 men on Crete, 16,500 were rescued but at the loss of three cruisers and six destroyers. Fifteen other major warships were damaged.[45]"
But Admiral Fletcher now knows where everything is. In particular the new information about the location and direction of the Japanese Main Force recently received from the USS Quincy. There is no need to sacrifice the Quincy and her escorts. New orders can be sent to the Quincys' captain telling him to pull back to the South.
Errolwi
Monthly Donor
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2-1Doc-c18-55.html#name-003325-mention
The acting Prime Minister of New Zealand to Admiral Cunningham, Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean Fleet(Alexandria)
2 June 1941
We have been told by our Prime Minister and have read of the wonderful work of yourself and the men under your command in sustaining, succouring, and relieving our men in Crete. Your efforts have inspired the people of New Zealand to continue to give all that they have to free the world from the menace of Nazi domination. For your magnificent enterprise and courage during the past twelve days, please accept for yourself, and convey to your officers and men, the heart-felt thanks of the Government and people of New Zealand.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/new-zealand-division-thanks-navy2 June 1941
We have been told by our Prime Minister and have read of the wonderful work of yourself and the men under your command in sustaining, succouring, and relieving our men in Crete. Your efforts have inspired the people of New Zealand to continue to give all that they have to free the world from the menace of Nazi domination. For your magnificent enterprise and courage during the past twelve days, please accept for yourself, and convey to your officers and men, the heart-felt thanks of the Government and people of New Zealand.
In appreciation of the huge effort made by the Royal Navy during the evacuations from Greece and Crete, the New Zealand Division held a collection once it returned to Egypt. The £820 raised (equivalent to around NZ$69,000 in 2011) was presented to Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham during a ceremony in 1941.
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