Will Giuseppe Garibaldi end up fighting for union? As he offered originally but only if the war was fought over slavery, a more radical Lincoln will make the chances higher he will serve the union.
Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
IIRC Garibaldi made his offer early in the war. I think Lincoln has to still be somewhat moderate to carry the Solid North that gave him the Presidency. Once the Civil War starts he would radicaliza much, much more quickly. Of course, I also plan to somewhat radicaliza the entire North, so perhaps they would be okay with a war for both Union and Freedom. So the answer is... maybe? I wouldn't know what to do with Garibaldi to tell you the truth.
Give him command of a black army or force a more radical union might get more black troops and would be recruiting them earlier.
Well, count me in for this ride!
The thing about Garibaldi is... he is a foreigner. There was a lot of prejudice against immigrant soldiers and officers, the idea of some foreigner commanding good natural-born Americans instead of their own American officers would be unacceptable for many Americans. Not to mention Garibaldi's demand to be Commander-in-chief of its forces was impossible to agree to.
It would be interesting to see him marching in the deep south at the head of a Black Regiment...
Thanks! Yeah, definitely no commander in-chief. Americans are too independent to accept that.
Thanks, and I understand. It'd be nice if at least the Dakota War of 1862 and the Cheyenne War could be avoided - just get Chivington out of there and that can butterfly away the Sand Creek Massacre which started it. And with the other fairly easy to be butterflied if the annuity gets to them in time and isn't delayed by weeks, we can always figure that these are butterflied, even if that doesn't show what the broader implications would be.
Skallagrim
Banned
That last bit is true, but all Lincoln would have to do to get Garibaldi accepted as a general would be to publicly and consistently call him "the Lafayette of our day". Hearken back to the noble freedom-minded Europeans who volunteered to aid the Americans during the ARW, and portray Garibaldi (and any other volunteers) as their spiritual heirs.
That I can do. Lincoln really didn't concern himself with Native American affairs, but he would probably want to continue a peaceful relationship with them.
That could work. I plan to make the whole "Second Revolution" idea much more prominent ITTL.
Could we just revoke the southern states as states and make them territories so the actual reforms could be done, and governors be selected by Washington.
Also question a more broad but i don't where to ask it why in armerica arent the southern unionist not mentioned much surely they should be the southern heritage the south should look to for being loyal and true patriots.
Also question a more broad but i don't where to ask it why in armerica arent the southern unionist not mentioned much surely they should be the southern heritage the south should look to for being loyal and true patriots.
The southern states were actually divided into military districts during Reconstruction with generals in charge. Their readmission to the Union was based on whether or not they supported the 13th through 15th Amendments.
As for Southern Unionists, the whole Lost Cause romanticizing of the Confederacy and demonization of Reconstruction made them less popular than the glorious rebel.
Thanks!
The Old South will be completely destroyed. This time a true social and political revolution will take place.
Yeah, me too. Especially Thaddeus Stevens, though that may be the Lincoln movie haha.
"When the war ends, I intend to push for full equality, the Negro vote, and much more. Congress shall mandate the seizure of every foot of Rebel land and every dollar of their property. We'll use their confiscated wealth to establish hundreds of thousands of free Negro farmers and, at their side, soldiers armed to occupy and transform the heritage of traitors. We'll build up a land down there of free men and free women and free children and freedom."
Haider Najib is basically talking about the State Suicide doctrine. Championed by somme Radicals such as Sumner, the doctrine stated that by rebelling against the government and going out of the Union, the Southern States had forfeited their rights and reverted to states. This would give Congress full control over them and how they would re-enter the Union. On the other hand, other radicals like Stevens said that the states were now conquered provinces, and the Union Army, as conquerors, could reshape them as they saw fit. Lincoln IOTL continued to insist that the states had never gone out of the Union, that secession was unconstitutional and that they had only been victims to a coup by secessionists. Thus, the Union Army only had to reconstruct the states by appointing loyal Unionists. The main conflict that arose from these varying doctrines was who was in charge of Reconstruction. If the States had reverted to their territorial stage, then Congress would lead. If they were, on the other hand, conquered territories, the President as commander in-chief of the Army had the power. I for one am in favor of the State Suicide Doctrine, and I think a more Radical Lincoln would be as well.
Lord Atlas already explained why the South rejected the Unionists in favor of the rebels.
No side would accept that at this point. Compromise is basically impossible, for Northerners, Democrats and Republicans alike, recognize the Lecompton constitution as an illegal and fraudulent measure, while the South would never tolerate this loss of honor.
I like it! I hope that the war's shorter and the slavers are put in their place more quickly and with fewer casualties. More enforcement of Reconstruction and stricter measures would help, too.
Thanks. Unfortunately, I think a somewhat long war, at least one that takes more than one term to resolve, is necessary. Lincoln's greater radicalization happened as a result of Union defeats. And things like Sherman's March to the Sea opened the way for political and social revolution ("40 acres and a mule"). Stricter enforcement of reconstruction is a given.
Sucide doctrine for the win! Is this just internet stuff i read somewhere or was this true radical republicans eanted to create a new state out of some of the defeated southern states a black majority state.
So that the the white and black share cropping System and the giant plantation that exist to this day will lot exist? So what your plan to make sure that black are enfranchised and other rights like that are enforced over a long period of time and will Lincoln be attacked more and stay to be killed too
I don't think they would apply something like that. Too extreme, and would destroy relations with the South, which would have to be held down at the point of a bayonet for a hundred years.
Sharecropping will probably still exist in some measure, but not be as dominant. There will be many more Free Black farmers. And yeah, that basically. Except for Lincoln, who won't die ITTL.