Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond

[EnglishCanuck]

God damn it, the fanboys of the slaver general are going to be even more intolerable in this timeline.

Well. his record was impressive from a tactical perspective OTL. However, you are unfortunately correct, fanboys will be all over his record TTL. Expect some to be even more insufferable.

That said, he hasn't really faced off against a slew of extremely talented commanders. McClellan was good enough, but his record against Lee's audacity is spotty at best, while Rosecrans did beat Lee in West Virginia in 1861, he thought he had more of a handle on Lee than he really did. The combination of generals who - for good reason mind you - took their time in building up their forces against an enemy has meant that Lee has also had time to think and plan contingencies. The retreat to Mine Run being the big one where he has indeed managed to just hammer Rosecrans.

Whoever Lincoln appoints next will have their work cut out for them, but even Lee is going to find it tough going. He didn't get off lightly in this fight either! But. there's a few more factors we will be getting into come August 1864.

 

[Ironshark]

Like in so many timeliness the north gets emotional whiplash again


my guess is this is going to cause Lincoln decides to "screw it just give the brits what they want " so he can throw the army of upper and lower Canada against Lee

from a political perspective the midterms will be a mess .upper northern and border states are going to be anti lincoln[well depending on negotiations in London for the former] and the west doesn't have much reason to be confidence either.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Like in so many timeliness the north gets emotional whiplash again

1864 was indeed a year of emotional whiplash OTL, so expect things to go downhill from here!

my guess is this is going to cause Lincoln decides to "screw it just give the brits what they want " so he can throw the army of upper and lower Canada against Lee

from a political perspective the midterms will be a mess .upper northern and border states are going to be anti lincoln[well depending on negotiations in London for the former] and the west doesn't have much reason to be confidence either.

Well, the Treaty of Rotterdam is effectively going to be a done deal soon, but I'm getting ahead of myself...

Mostly the big deal coming up is the election of 1864 which I have to dedicate a few chapters to, but I have - if my rough estimate is right - at least nine chapters or so before I can hit the big election so maybe that culminating moment will be Chapter 100 or Chapter 101. That said, the internal politics in the US are going to be pretty up and down as the TL continues. I have some ideas for post-war movers and shakers, so these next few elections will be...interesting to say the least.

 

[Young Augustus5598]

1864 was indeed a year of emotional whiplash OTL, so expect things to go downhill from here!



Well, the Treaty of Rotterdam is effectively going to be a done deal soon, but I'm getting ahead of myself...

Mostly the big deal coming up is the election of 1864 which I have to dedicate a few chapters to, but I have - if my rough estimate is right - at least nine chapters or so before I can hit the big election so maybe that culminating moment will be Chapter 100 or Chapter 101. That said, the internal politics in the US are going to be pretty up and down as the TL continues. I have some ideas for post-war movers and shakers, so these next few elections will be...interesting to say the least.

My opinion on the election is that if Lincoln clings on, it’ll be by the skin of his teeth, his own party will have challengers he’ll need to put down and or bribe out of the way, but my biggest focus is who the Democrats can run to oppose him. IRL, it was General McClellan who had his peace with honor aspect with support from Copperheads, but in this timeline I don’t believe McClellan’s reputation would be sufficient to run, he was forced back to Washington City and into a siege, dismissed under suspicion of preparing to surrender the Army(even though he denies it, the Republicans would beat him hard on that fact), but there’s no prominent Democrats I can think of who could garner the necessary support. Valladingham was a huge peace democrat but with the aspect of the Treaty of Rotterdam to consider, I’m not sure he’d get traction as a peace candidate. It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Lee meanwhile, had decisions of his own to consider. How was he to follow up his greatest victory?​

​

Always the trouble in the eastern theater, you're so restricted by geography.

That's an incredible victory though, bagging 10,000+ prisoners and driving the army across the Rappahanock is a huge achievement. I feel bad for poor Rosencrans, just a huge series of unfortunate events causing his unravelling.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

My opinion on the election is that if Lincoln clings on, it’ll be by the skin of his teeth, his own party will have challengers he’ll need to put down and or bribe out of the way, but my biggest focus is who the Democrats can run to oppose him. IRL, it was General McClellan who had his peace with honor aspect with support from Copperheads, but in this timeline I don’t believe McClellan’s reputation would be sufficient to run, he was forced back to Washington City and into a siege, dismissed under suspicion of preparing to surrender the Army(even though he denies it, the Republicans would beat him hard on that fact), but there’s no prominent Democrats I can think of who could garner the necessary support. Valladingham was a huge peace democrat but with the aspect of the Treaty of Rotterdam to consider, I’m not sure he’d get traction as a peace candidate. It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out.

McClellan is still a darling of the Democratic Party as his sacking did not go over without controversy. The fact that Thomas saved the city in the aftermath and Rosecrans took over the army ably have distracted from it, but with the unfolding disaster and some [redacted] also going on in the background, McClellan still has significant support amongst the Democrats.

The man was no naive political angel OTL either. He actively courted - and allowed himself to be courted by - prominent members of the Democratic Party while he was out of the field. He may not have gone into retirement expecting the political nomination, but he certainly didn't turn away anyone who was suggesting he become President either! Here there's other things going on, but I'll be getting into that in due time!

Always the trouble in the eastern theater, you're so restricted by geography.

That's an incredible victory though, bagging 10,000+ prisoners and driving the army across the Rappahanock is a huge achievement. I feel bad for poor Rosencrans, just a huge series of unfortunate events causing his unravelling.

Well, unfortunate events and some overconfidence. Similar to Hooker going into Chancellorsville, but also with a bit of of feeling like he was triumphantly driving Lee before him. Not necessarily wrong to think so, but it did cost him big! Having effectively 10% of your army wiped out in a day can do a hell of a thing for morale...

 

[SWS]

"The Sun of Verdiersville!" - General Jubal Early, probably.

The whole episode of ATL Mine Run, and the decisive Confederate success therein, is most reminiscent of what OTL's Second Cold Harbor should have been under better supervision in reference to the 'lost opportunities' of June 1, 1864. Overall, Mine Run, in regard to Lee's tactical preference, does seem to resemble his 'perfect battle'.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

"The Sun of Verdiersville!" - General Jubal Early, probably.

The whole episode of ATL Mine Run, and the decisive Confederate success therein, is most reminiscent of what OTL's Second Cold Harbor should have been under better supervision in reference to the 'lost opportunities' of June 1, 1864. Overall, Mine Run, in regard to Lee's tactical preference, does seem to resemble his 'perfect battle'.

There has been much speculation on whether Lee could have performed similar feats in OTL 1864, and he may well have missed some opportunities to inflict a significant defeat on Grant. However, unlike TTL, he simply didn't have the manpower reserves to pull off such a victory and make it stick. Here he does indeed have the manpower reserves to follow up with something that could turn the tide of the whole war.

Real shame about that spare corps stuck in Annapolis though.

 

[Young Augustus5598]

McClellan is still a darling of the Democratic Party as his sacking did not go over without controversy. The fact that Thomas saved the city in the aftermath and Rosecrans took over the army ably have distracted from it, but with the unfolding disaster and some [redacted] also going on in the background, McClellan still has significant support amongst the Democrats.

The man was no naive political angel OTL either. He actively courted - and allowed himself to be courted by - prominent members of the Democratic Party while he was out of the field. He may not have gone into retirement expecting the political nomination, but he certainly didn't turn away anyone who was suggesting he become President either! Here there's other things going on, but I'll be getting into that in due time!



Well, unfortunate events and some overconfidence. Similar to Hooker going into Chancellorsville, but also with a bit of of feeling like he was triumphantly driving Lee before him. Not necessarily wrong to think so, but it did cost him big! Having effectively 10% of your army wiped out in a day can do a hell of a thing for morale...

I also just considered that Rosecrans will 100% be fired after this, so I wonder who will take command, if we go based solely off records, John Reynolds is a junior Corps Commander but with a stellar reputation, Hooker is a fairly senior one, Hancock just performed poorly, and I can’t think of the others who’s performance really supports a promotion to command the AOP

 

[EnglishCanuck]

I also just considered that Rosecrans will 100% be fired after this, so I wonder who will take command, if we go based solely off records, John Reynolds is a junior Corps Commander but with a stellar reputation, Hooker is a fairly senior one, Hancock just performed poorly, and I can’t think of the others who’s performance really supports a promotion to command the AOP

His reputation TTL is not going to be grand after this fiasco. However, who will take command of the Army of the Potomac is the question of the hour. Hooker would, from a certain perspective, be the logical choice. The issue with many of the 'logical choices' though is that they happen to be Democrats. This is a bit of a problem for Lincoln as the feeling of "Democratic generals doing badly" is starting to become an issue. Grumbling in even moderate Republican ranks will be getting louder, and another Democrat pick would have the Radicals frothing at the mouth. The choice is going to be as much political as it is military.

Though speaking of politics, let's see what the politicians are up to shall we?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Unofficial Chapter 91: The Disloyal Opposition​

Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide. – Lincoln’s Lyceum Address, January 27th 1838

“While the great battles of May and June were raging, no less pivotal battles were being fought in the halls of old Congressional Hall and the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia[1]. By the end of April, the negotiators in Rotterdam had agreed to the terms and sent off the text to be ratified by their respective governments in early May. Though it was easily ratified in London, almost within a week of its receipt, the ratification in Philadelphia would take much longer. A bruising meeting to discuss the matter of the proposed terms of the Treaty of Rotterdam presented for consideration of the nation followed. Lincoln and his cabinet had accepted it, but there was dissension within the ranks of the Republican Party over what was to be done.

“The terms which Mr. Lincoln has agreed to are little more than a proverbial bending of the knee to Queen Victoria. It is akin to Washington bending the knee to George the Third after Trenton,” John P. Hale of New Hampshire would say. It was a similar idea shared amongst many of his colleagues. They felt that in spite of the setbacks in Canada, they had inflicted their own defeats on Britain. New York had been saved, and Farragut had delivered a bloody nose to the Royal Navy it would not soon forget. Why then, would the United States need to accept such terms?

Such questions certainly vexed Charles Sumner who, after his more open break with the administration, had been left out of the discussions of the treaty. He, with allies in Congress and the Senate, opposed the Treaty of Rotterdam on such patriotic grounds, but even they were unwilling to vote against it when the issue of secession and slavery was so important to them. This was, effectively, the position of Radical Republicans as they made public noises against the treaty, in private they acquiesced. While willing to critique Lincoln’s handling of the war with Britain, they were not willing to jeopardize the war against the Confederacy by endangering the treaty. Sumner and other Radicals would use this as a means to attempt to force Lincoln to adopt an amendment to end slavery to his 1864 platform.

This was not what endangered the treaty however.

It was the Democratic Party which staunchly opposed the first ratification. Though not overly desirous for war with Britain to continue, it was deemed practical to be seen as opposing the surrender of American territory in any treaty. As such, party discipline meant that, despite passing in the Senate, no Democrat voted for it[2]. The most truculent of the Democratic Party were from New York where the state government, and especially the Tammany Hall political machine, actively campaigned against Lincoln, making considerable headway in damning his handling of the war. This played well with the city's Irish community who, by and large, were anti-British in attitude and temperament. Courting that voting bloc was an important strategy in the 1864 strategy for the party.

This made it unsurprising Fernando Wood of New York and William Temple of Delaware[3] were the most outspoken in their criticisms. They were backed by the leader of the Ohio Democrats, George Pendleton, who was one of the most powerful of Copperhead leaders. While this did discomfort some staunch War Democrats who wanted the South to be crushed, they also wished to win the election of 1864 and backed the strong alliance of New York and Ohio Democratic leaders who seemed poised to set the stage for who would run that year. They led concerted efforts to maintain a lockstep vote within the Party to defeat the first attempt at ratification.

When the treaty passed the Senate, Lincoln was at first not concerned with the passage in the House in June. Lincoln, despite many rumors, felt confident that it would also pass in the House as he received almost as many notes about hopes for peace from ostensible opponents of his platform as from his supporters…

Upon being presented for ratification on the 11th of June, the two sides began a vote call. The Republican members all voted for it unanimously, but as the roll went on, it became clear that the Democratic members were voting nearly unanimously against. When the final tally was called, all 83 Republican Congressmen had voted in favor of ratification, but 71 Democrats had voted against, with only three daring to challenge the party line. With 86 to 71, it failed to meet the required threshold. An immediate partisan uproar divided the House and the Speaker eventually had to call an early end to the session…

Lincoln immediately began stumping for Democratic support. He knew the treaty was difficult, but he had no clue how deeply the Democratic Party opposed its initial ratification. While his initial panic was understandable, he was also unsure whether he could convince the Democrats to vote to ratify the treaty before Congress was supposed to break up in July, just as armistice with the British expired.

In looking for help he found support in New York Congressmen Francis Kernan and Ohio Congressman John Brough “The Engine” as he was known. The corpulent Brough had defeated his Republican opponent by, in the words of one observer “copious profanity, tobacco spit, and condescension towards Mr. Lincoln’s leadership.” In equal measure though, he made no secret of his hatred for secession and was a heavy counterweight to Valladingham’s peace policies. These two, while opposed to the Republican running of the war, were also War Democrats and largely inimical to the Copperhead movement which dominated the mainstream Democratic political decision making apparatus. It allowed Lincoln to negotiate with otherwise staunch Democrats who opposed him, and in the end, secure the support needed to ratify the treaty.

However, Wood and his supporters would drag their feet to the very last instant, insistent on their belief that any treaty which gave American territory to their “ancient foe” was disgraceful to American pride.

Realistically, there was no chance that even Vallandingham or Wood would have fully supported scrapping the treaty. The economic costs of war with Britain were high. Even though they and their supporters opposed it on principle, like many Republicans, it was unthinkable they should actually desire to support the war any longer than necessary. Even so, it remains one of the most petty partisan maneuvers ever carried out in United States history. Forcing the vote to take place in a late night session on June 30th just as news of the disaster at Mine Run began seeping into Pennsylvania meant that the official news of the ratification would not be fully released until July 2nd and the telegraphs wiring the news north did not reach the lines until the very evening, with all the consequences that would entail…” - Snakes and Ladders: The Lincoln Administration and America’s Darkest Hour, Hillary Saunders, Scattershot Publishing, 2003

-----

1] In case anyone has forgotten, the Northern government is still firmly in Philadelphia because of the threat represented by Whiting’s Corps at Annapolis, the British fleet, and the generally wrecked condition of Washington after the siege in 1863.

2] OTL the two senators from Oregon voted for the 13th Amendment, the only ones to do so, but TTL they are in lockstep with their fellows. This is because they resent effectively being abandoned to the British out West, a small sign Lincoln has very little political capital to spend.

3] Historically Temple did die in early 1863, but as I can’t confirm his cause of death so relatively young, I have decided he is one of the ones who lives in the place of someone who died TTL, especially as he’s an interesting Copperhead.

 

[SultanArda]

Did I miss the terms of the treaty?
I am pretty sure that, in terms of land at least, that giant potato field with some lumberjacks and the pig islands is gone, but what about other terms?

 

[Ironshark]

oh boy one last rumble in th
..last blow in the snow

I hope both sides learned and let the last battle be a diplomatic freebie

I hope it's a fun one

 

[jwgview]

I thought that only approval of the senate was needed for treaties?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Did I miss the terms of the treaty?
I am pretty sure that, in terms of land at least, that giant potato field with some lumberjacks and the pig islands is gone, but what about other terms?

Not yet! There's still a few events to cover before I spell out the full Treaty of Rotterdam following our last chapter on Canada. So we have a Chapter 92 incoming, and Chapter 93 will be split into two parts which deal with the immediate end of war with Britain.

I thought that only approval of the senate was needed for treaties?

Oh dear, you have indeed noted something I have seriously misunderstood about treaty ratification within the US political system!

This will require some serious rewrites, so please stand by while we fix this! Please consider this then the ah, rough, version of the ratification issue! But do note that I have the characters remaining for future political shenanigans!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Chapter 91: The Disloyal Opposition​

Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide. – Lincoln’s Lyceum Address, January 27th 1838

“While the great battles of May and June were raging, no less pivotal battles were being fought in the halls of old Congressional Hall and the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia[1]. By the end of April, the negotiators in Rotterdam had agreed to the terms and sent off the text to be ratified by their respective governments in early May. Though it was easily ratified in London, almost within a week of its receipt, the ratification in Philadelphia would take much longer. A bruising meeting to discuss the matter of the proposed terms of the Treaty of Rotterdam presented for consideration of the nation followed. Lincoln and his cabinet had accepted it, but there was dissension within the ranks of the Republican Party over what was to be done.

“The terms which Mr. Lincoln has agreed to are little more than a proverbial bending of the knee to Queen Victoria. It is akin to Washington bending the knee to George the Third after Trenton,” John P. Hale of New Hampshire would say. It was a similar idea shared amongst many of his colleagues. They felt that in spite of the setbacks in Canada, they had inflicted their own defeats on Britain. New York had been saved, and Farragut had delivered a bloody nose to the Royal Navy it would not soon forget. Why then, would the United States need to accept such terms?

Such questions certainly vexed Charles Sumner who, after his more open break with the administration, had been left out of the discussions of the treaty. He, with allies in Congress and the Senate, opposed the Treaty of Rotterdam on such patriotic grounds, but even they were unwilling to vote against it when the issue of secession and slavery was so important to them. This was, effectively, the position of Radical Republicans as they made public noises against the treaty, in private they acquiesced. While willing to critique Lincoln’s handling of the war with Britain, they were not willing to jeopardize the war against the Confederacy by endangering the treaty. Sumner and other Radicals would use this as a means to attempt to force Lincoln to adopt an amendment to end slavery to his 1864 platform.

This was not what endangered the treaty however.

It was the Democratic Party which staunchly opposed the first ratification. Though not overly desirous for war with Britain to continue, it was deemed practical to be seen as opposing the surrender of American territory in any treaty. As such, party discipline meant that no Democrat voted for it[2]. However, they were joined in lockstep by the Unconditional Unionists of Virginia and Missouri, who wanted to make their voices known in the critique of Lincoln's handling of the war. Casting their votes too, were the representatives from Maine, Lot P. Morrill and William P. Fessenden. Both men were outraged at the loss of territory their state would be forced to endure, and so opposed the treaty not merely on symbolic grounds, but actively in the interest of their state. Morrill was morally opposed as well since his friend Hannibal Hamlin had left Lincoln's administration in protest of the very move which would sacrifice much of Maine to the British.

Lincoln was at first irritated, and then seriously worried by the failure to get the first ratification passed...

A second vote in early June would fail again. This time, while the Unconditional Unionists from Virginia would be brought on board, the Republicans from Maine and the Missouri delegation would remain staunchly in the anti-treaty camp.

Entreating with Charles Sumner on "behalf of the nation and peace" Lincoln conducted a series of circuitous negotiations to secure the support necessary to pass the measure. The Unconditional Unionists in Missouri were not a unified force, with John Henderson being firmly in the Radical Camp, but Benjamin B. Brown sitting on the fence between the conservative wing of the Republican Party, while also agreeing with many of Lincoln's critics from the Democratic Party in his handling of the war. Both men disagreed with the treaty for patriotic reasons, but where Henderson was opposed to the treaty merely on principle, Brown thought it was emblematic of Lincoln's whole handling of the war. "We will trade away loyal men in exchange for a bloody peace which can only be a treaty lasting a decade before we must fight Imperial Britain again!" Brown thundered in an oration in early June.

Sumner could not move Brown, and the Democrats remained in lockstep opposing the treaty. The third vote failed by a single tally, with 26 for and 15 against. Lincoln thus had to invite many of the Senators he was required to court to Lemon Hill personally in order to sound out what might gain their support.

Both Fessenden and Morrill stated their opposition in patriotic, but also practical, terms. How could they keep Maine in the Republican camp in the 1864 election if they were willing to sell almost 20,000 square miles of the state to a foreign power? It would surely fall into the Democratic camp, and both men find themselves voted out of office by an angry electorate. While Lincoln sympathized with each, he reminded them that the treaty was agreed to, and so many more boys from Maine would die in the fighting simply to crush the Confederacy; was it sensible that they should then die fighting against Britain when they could be fighting to end slavery? Morrill stated categorically that he must vote against it, while Fessenden was, in the moment at least, persuaded that it was the right course of action...

...the last trouble came with Charles Sumner. Though he had largely broken with the administration, he broached to Lincoln the subject of uniting the factions with a promised amendment to end slavery once and for all in the United States. While Lincoln was receptive in light of his promise of 1863, he was skeptical he could run on such a platform in 1864.

"Would it not be better to defeat the South by force of arms, rebuild our strength, and use such victories to control both Houses in order to pass such legislation? The halls of power are filled with the same rats who will not vote for peace with Britain but may vote for peace with Jeff Davis[3], should we not send them packing like we sent Lee skedaddling south of the Rappahannock before going in for the kill?" Lincoln would write to Sumner on June 1st. Sumner was less than pleased by this, but would push for Lincoln to adopt at least an anti-slavery plank at the convention in the convention at Philadelphia in July. Lincoln was already aware that the Cleveland Convention[4] had passed such a plank in June, and saw it as both a potential blessing and a curse. With Kentucky still a battleground, he feared that an immediate act to end slavery would tip the scales in that state, further prolonging a war that threatened to drag on into the new year, and potentially well beyond.

Sumner was completely unsatisfied by this answer, and so were many other Radicals. However, Lincoln did manage to convince him at last that the passage of the Rotterdam treaty was just as important to ending the war and crushing the rebellion as after such "we should have such a reserve of men and ships we could later challenge Britain for her presumptions. Such would be our power she would have to negotiate...

Even with such passionate pleas, it was not until the night of June 30th that the final vote would take place. At last it would pass with 28 in favor, just over the two thirds majority required to ratify it. However, this was just as news of the disaster at Mine Run began seeping into Pennsylvania meant that the official news of the ratification would not be fully released until July 2nd and the telegraphs wiring the news north did not reach the lines until the very evening, with all the consequences that would entail…” - Snakes and Ladders: The Lincoln Administration and America’s Darkest Hour, Hillary Saunders, Scattershot Publishing, 2003

-----

1] In case anyone has forgotten, the Northern government is still firmly in Philadelphia because of the threat represented by Whiting’s Corps at Annapolis, the British fleet, and the generally wrecked condition of Washington after the siege in 1863.

2] OTL the two senators from Oregon voted for the 13th Amendment, the only ones to do so, but TTL they are in lockstep with their fellows. This is because they resent effectively being abandoned to the British out West, a small sign Lincoln has very little political capital to spend.

3] The Democrats, in case you're wondering.

4] But more on that later!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Consider the above the official Chapter 91. It lets me get in some work for the election of 1864, and doesn't muck around with my narrative while perhaps providing a more compelling look at how Maine would react to the sacrifice it must endure! My apologies for the sudden rewrite!

 

[kham_coc]

Consider the above the official Chapter 91. It lets me get in some work for the election of 1864, and doesn't muck around with my narrative while perhaps providing a more compelling look at how Maine would react to the sacrifice it must endure! My apologies for the sudden rewrite!

One thing to note however, while only the senate matters for ratifying treaties, any treaty that touches on a house competency (that's customs pretty much, since its a tax power) then they also needs to approve a treaty. I can't recall the exact terms, but if they touched upon customs the house also would need to ratify - at least by implication, by implementing the customs changes.

Sorry for the whiplash

Ed, I'm not entirely sure, but given that the indemnity needs to be paid for, I think the house needs to vote to for an appropriations bill to pay for that.
Think that the only way to find out for sure is to check the 1812 treaty, for its terms and or the Alaska and lousiana purchases.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

One thing to note however, while only the senate matters for ratifying treaties, any treaty that touches on a house competency (that's customs pretty much, since its a tax power) then they also needs to approve a treaty. I can't recall the exact terms, but if they touched upon customs the house also would need to ratify - at least by implication, by implementing the customs changes.

Sorry for the whiplash

Alas, yours truly just goofed in the writing! A treaty in the future might just have such a provision, but yours truly was unaware of the Treaty Clause in the Constitution and believed that, like bills, treaties had to be ratified by both the House and the Senate, which made me somewhat wrong.

However, the story remains coherent to the political points I see, and the personalities from the unofficial chapter will still appear later on ITTL. Here though, I'm hoping we're seeing some of the issues with the 1864 election that will make things... interesting in the Chinese sense. There's someone(s) waiting in the wings to make for a big dent in the political sphere. The salient point though, is that the treaty is pushed back and a crucial delay makes things quite unpleasant!

The full text of the Treaty will be spelled out after the next chapter which will wrap things up in Canada for us. We'll be saying hello to a familiar character again.

 

[Issei Uzumaki]

I thought that only approval of the senate was needed for treaties?

they are sole approvals and require 2/3 to approve treaties