WI: Lenin live more four decades

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Brazilianguy, May 15, 2019.

  1. Brazilianguy Member

    Mar 2, 2019
    What if Lenin don’t die at 53 like in real live but die at 93( in 1964), how did this fact affects the Russian and the world political history?
  2. OldNavy1988 Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2014
    USSR probably still defeats the Nazis.
  3. Roosevelt 26th President

    Apr 6, 2019
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Lenin lived such an unhealthy life, I’m not sure if he could clear the 20s
    Evil Crusader and Sam R. like this.
  4. Tio Paquete Well-Known Member

    Sep 27, 2018
    What was so unhealthy about his lifestyle, apart from getting shot?
    James Ricker likes this.
  5. sdgottsch Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    Lenin hated bureaucratic governmental ideas coming from the emerging USSR so that would an interesting change to the government.

    Lenin agreed with Stalin on the violence needed to root out the Tsarist ideas but he also believed in private owned small businesses which would have made the transition to socialism easier (economically)

    Sounds like he wanted to allow international investment in the USSR infrastructure which was a way to also introduce back to the capitalist nations of Europe the socialist ideas...much different than the closed minded 1920s-30s of the USSR.
    HelloThere and James Ricker like this.
  6. Corjomc Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2011
    New England
    I imagine a bitter old man sitting in a Paris Cafe complaining to Trotsky. The pair of them wondering how a backward thug from Georgia had outmaneuvered them. They also wonder when the hammer is going to fall and SMERSH will finish them off.
  7. Roosevelt 26th President

    Apr 6, 2019
    Charleston, South Carolina
    During the revolution he barely slept. I read somewhere that he’d get like an hour of sleep per day and it contributed to his many strokes.
  8. David T Well-Known Member

    Nov 8, 2007
    Lenin in the 1950's would look and behave like this:
  9. Mr_Fanboy Well-Known Member

    Jul 17, 2016
    Is there any strong reason to doubt that Lenin would maintain power until his death? I am not even talking about the possibility of the USSR falling as the result of an invasion - were there other factions within the party who may eventually tire of his rule?
  10. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2010
    I doubt that Lenin would had lived at age of 93 even if him had perfect health and better life habits. Leader of Soviet Union was stressing job and more stress is coming if WW2 still occurs and Germans still launch Operation Barbarossa.

    Ten years more would be much more plausible and it is still bit stretched.
  11. Sam R. Well-Known Member

    May 11, 2011
    Lenin… Lenin did not play well with others. As the NEP guts the political and industrial rule of the devastated urban proletariat the factions will come out to play. And the scissors crisis will either precipitate urban or rural discontent and if unalleyed uprising. Bukharin will still be the flop of his ultrarightism after his flip of ultraleftism but the darling is wrong unless you want to shoot urban workers on their streets and in their factories. Trotsky (not Stalin) will be running the pseudoultraleft line of attacking the rural workers and peasants to resolve urban hunger.

    Lenin might not play well with others but he could work with factions. Given that the Ural Siberian method was popular before party and given the destruction of the rural trading networks before an effective bureaucratic trade network existed there will be a nasty rural famine where the food exists to solve it and the systems to distribute it are utterly ineffective.

    There will be central plans and a bourgeois constitution. There will be a party purge but rather than mass political arrests of workers and peasants there are slightly smaller mass *criminal* arrests of workers and peasants. Fewer 25s and more public trials. The security apparatus will not be allowed a private economy that was a net loss. There will be no general 1937 in the camps, but there will be widespread “natural” bastardry of the prisons and many incompetent warders.

    No genera party purge (selective instead) means correspondingly with the armed forces.
  12. alexmilman Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2018

    He created a highly bureaucratic state, to start with, so I would not push an issue of his alleged hate too far. He did not need Stalin to persuade him that violence is needed: the Red Terror started when Stalin was a relatively minor figure. His NEP was a temporary measure caused by a pure necessity: it became quite clear that the state he created can not deal with the economic issues so the small businesses had been allowed to function under a tight state control. There is no reason to think that situation would remain forever (actually, it does not look like Lenin was a good long term planner: he was great in dealing with the immediate problems and could not even foresee that the system he was creating is going to “eat” him and his cronies). International investment not the SU was just a clever scam described by Bajanov in some details (invented, IIRC, by Litvinov): eventually, the foreign investors had been maneuvered into a situation when they could not fulfill the contractual obligations with a resulting loss of the investments (leaving functioning equipment and enterprises to the commies).

    Of course, it is an open question how the system would develop with him being in charge but probably the general direction would be the same: Party as a supreme authority and increasily bureaucratic governmental apparatus. Lenin was hardly a figure willing to get rid of a Party or capable of stopping the processes he started.
    mrmandias likes this.