Definitely, the minuses of not fighting in the Great War are dwarfed by pluses. And it will result in huge social changes. Yes the Empire will be more conservative. Other things are the esense of independence the Great War created in the Dominions won't be there, nor their mistrust of British leadership. Also the carnage in Europe will create a strong desire to avoid future European wars. The massive economic boom will also a concrete reason to stay in the Empire.
Why the Chinese play cricket (The Pax Imperialis)
- Thread starter Miss Construction
- Start date
Definitely, the minuses of not fighting in the Great War are dwarfed by pluses. And it will result in huge social changes. Yes the Empire will be more conservative. Other things are the esense of independence the Great War created in the Dominions won't be there, nor their mistrust of British leadership. Also the carnage in Europe will create a strong desire to avoid future European wars. The massive economic boom will also a concrete reason to stay in the Empire.
Really enjoying so far, @Miss Construction
Thank you dear, I'm really enjoying writing this one. While it is a lot harder, I can't just file the serial numbers off the OTL in this one, but it's truly far better because of that. This is so clearly "not in kansas anymore." This has also taken on a life of it's own, going in directions I never intended it to. I honestly I have no idea how this is going to play out.
Really enjoying so far, @Miss Construction
Thing I like about this iteration is, while I have fudged, every change can be linked back to the changes in the British Empire. Which reminds me I haven't made clear why the, very radical, changes in the US are linked or why they even occurred.
June 1912: Dissatisfied with the conservative nature of President Howard Taft, former US president Theodore Roosevelt splits from the Republican party to form the Progressive party.
November 1912: The US presidential elections are an unprecedented three way contest between the democrat Woodrow Wilson, Republican Taft and Progressive Roosevelt. The lack of growth in the US economy, caused slow fall off of British investment over the last three decades has lead to public dissatisfaction with the established two party system. Thus txdhe elections result in no candidate gaining a majority in the electoral college, though Wilson and Roosevelt have a clear lead over Taft. Roosevelt is finally selected in a close house vote.
No problem
And I'm looking forward immensely to seeing where this goes. It's very definitely 'not in Kansas' Butterflies in flight are a sight to behold
No problem
Butterflies in flight are a sight to behold
We're about to see the start of a series of events which will change TTL out of all recognition.
I think it is better this way, you aren't forcing things into your preconceived idea of what is going to happen.
Very definitely as I find things like this happening.
Another addition to the start of the war to explain what comes later. This is the same as the OTL so I'd not mentioned it. But now, as the timeline flows on, I find I need to. I expect there will be more things like this.
June 1913: Germany demands the Danes mine the Great and Little Belts to close off access to the Baltic. Despite treaty obligations not to close access to the Belts, the Danes agree after consulting the neutral powers.
Please fasten your seatbelts and take a final look at Kansas, we are taxing for take off.
1914a
~January to April 1914: The end of innocence
January 1914: With British industry unable to fully cope with war orders, production begins to expand to the Dominions and even India.
January 1914: Russian troops enter Persia to force prevent the Ottoman drive to the Caspian Sea.
January 1914: Admiral von Spee's East Asia Squadron begins commerce warfare against French shipping in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
January 1914: Serbia orders 25,000 Enfield rifles from Vickers in 7mm Mauser due to the impossibility of obtaining new rifles from Germany. Bulgaria follows suit with a similar order in 8mm Mannlicher as a result of the same issue with Austria-Hungary.
January 1914: Concerned about the Ottoman invasion of Persia, British and Indian troops are deployed to secure the Persian oilfields.
January 1914: The Austro-Hungarian winter offensive in the Carpathians is finally called off having failed to dislodge the Russians from their positions.
January 1914: The Ottoman invasion of the Caucasus is decisively defeated and their army virtually destroyed. The Russians launch an immediate counter offensive.
January 1914: German airships begin bombing Paris.
January 1914: The Ottomans begin placing orders for rifles, machine guns and artillery from Britain and Italy as it is proving difficult to get equipment from Germany.
February 1914: The Austro-Hungarians launch another winter offensive aimed at driving the Russians from the Carpathians. The offensive will again be a costly failure with massive casualties.
February 1914: The Italian company Fiat obtains a production licence for the Enfield rifle to capitalise on its growing popularity. The cost of the licence will be recouped within three months as the French place massive orders.
February 1914: Despite the failure of their offensive in Aisne, the French launch new offensive in Flanders. Again the battle turns into a bloody stalemate. This pattern will continue throughout the year.
15th February 1914: As a response to bombing by German Zeppelins, the French order six airships from Vickers in Britain.
February 1914: Yao force attack the Qing in Hunan province. However, the offensive makes little headway as the Qing dig in, forming a defensive line.
February 1914: The submarine U7 is sunk by an armed French merchant ship. As a result Germany gives permission for their submarines to sink armed merchant ships without warning. Using the German move as justification, the French likewise authorise attacks without warning.
February 1914: With the destruction of the Ottoman army in the Caucasus, the Ottoman Armenian minority rises in revolt.
February 1914: With France becoming increasingly dependant of British industry for their war effort, German cruisers begin attacking French shipping in the Channel. Operations are quickly abandoned after two cruisers are lost. However, this leads to the British stepping up their neutrality patrols and prohibiting warships entering the Channel or the delivery of strategic materials to channel ports to ensure its neutrality.
March 1914: Togoland and Kamerun are occupied by the French.
March 1914: British and Indian troops complete the occupation of southern Persia.
March 1914: In light of the war in Europe, the construction of three more Royal Navy gunboats on Lake Tanganyika is authorised to protect the Cape to Cairo railway.
March 1914: With the failure of the Austria-Hungary offensive in the Carpathians Russia returns to the offensive in the Carpathians.
March 1914: In the wake of the disaster in the Caucasus, the Ottomans are forced to reinforce the front with troops from the Balkans.
March 1914: The first atmospheric nitrogen fixation plant using the Haber-Bosch process begins operating in Germany. This process ends German dependence on Chile for nitrates.
March 1914: The British inform the Entente they regard any attempt to occupy German East or South West Africa as unacceptable. At the same time they inform the Germans they will occupy the colonies if they are used as military bases.
March 1914: As a result of the Armenian uprising, the Ottomans begin the forced deportation of Armenians within the Empire. These deportations will rapidly turn into genocide.
April 1914: Germany begins redeploying troops from the west for a drive to retake East Prussia.
April 1914: With the Lebel rifle proving to be troublesome due to it's length and tubular magazine and the Berthier limited by its three round clip, the French order a large number of Enfield rifles to supplement them. Since the Enfield can not easily be adapted to the 8mm Lebel and the French are already using the 0.303" British for aircraft, these are ordered in that calibre as the Fusil Mle 1914 "Enfield." The intention is to gradually phase out both the Lebel and Berthier along with the 8mm round.
April 1914: With the outbreak of war and the need to protect the East Indies, the Netherlands order four 26,000 ton battleships from Vickers. The ships are armed with eight 13.5" guns, capable of 22 knots and feature heavy deck armour for the anticipated long range fighting in the Java Sea.
April 1914: Using a Lewis LMG mounted on the top wing clear of the propeller, the French introduce the Nieuport 11, the first dedicated fighter aircraft.
April 1914: Mexican forces temporarily detain nine US naval personnel in the city of Tampico. President Huerta refuses to give an apology. As a result Congress authorises the occupation of Tampico and its oil fields. This action incites widespread anti US violence and riots throughout Mexico. Both President Huerta and revolutionary leader Venustiano Carranza condemn the action but neither are able to effectively oppose the occupation.
April 1914: With the Austro-Hungarians efforts focused on the Carpathian front the Bulgarians and Serbs both switch troops to face the Ottomans.
April 1914: The armed French merchant man Comte d'Artois is sunk off the French coast without warning. Three US crewmen are amongst those lost. In the wake of this the US public demand action and, despite a German apology, President Roosevelt gains Congressional approval to commit US warships to the British neutrality patrols in the Atlantic.
April 1914: With the war in Europe growing more intense, President Roosevelt again extracts approval for two battleships, two battlecruisers and six cruisers in the 1914 program. Again to reduce costs, they are to be of the same class as the smaller ships in the 1913 program.
April 1914: The Yao abandon their offensive in Hunan and an armistice e arranged. Both the Yao and Qing move to concentrate on developing their territories. However, the Yuan does not abandon his effective dictatorship, allowing the Qing to slowly pull ahead.
January 1914: With British industry unable to fully cope with war orders, production begins to expand to the Dominions and even India.
January 1914: Russian troops enter Persia to force prevent the Ottoman drive to the Caspian Sea.
January 1914: Admiral von Spee's East Asia Squadron begins commerce warfare against French shipping in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
January 1914: Serbia orders 25,000 Enfield rifles from Vickers in 7mm Mauser due to the impossibility of obtaining new rifles from Germany. Bulgaria follows suit with a similar order in 8mm Mannlicher as a result of the same issue with Austria-Hungary.
January 1914: Concerned about the Ottoman invasion of Persia, British and Indian troops are deployed to secure the Persian oilfields.
January 1914: The Austro-Hungarian winter offensive in the Carpathians is finally called off having failed to dislodge the Russians from their positions.
January 1914: The Ottoman invasion of the Caucasus is decisively defeated and their army virtually destroyed. The Russians launch an immediate counter offensive.
January 1914: German airships begin bombing Paris.
January 1914: The Ottomans begin placing orders for rifles, machine guns and artillery from Britain and Italy as it is proving difficult to get equipment from Germany.
February 1914: The Austro-Hungarians launch another winter offensive aimed at driving the Russians from the Carpathians. The offensive will again be a costly failure with massive casualties.
February 1914: The Italian company Fiat obtains a production licence for the Enfield rifle to capitalise on its growing popularity. The cost of the licence will be recouped within three months as the French place massive orders.
February 1914: Despite the failure of their offensive in Aisne, the French launch new offensive in Flanders. Again the battle turns into a bloody stalemate. This pattern will continue throughout the year.
15th February 1914: As a response to bombing by German Zeppelins, the French order six airships from Vickers in Britain.
February 1914: Yao force attack the Qing in Hunan province. However, the offensive makes little headway as the Qing dig in, forming a defensive line.
February 1914: The submarine U7 is sunk by an armed French merchant ship. As a result Germany gives permission for their submarines to sink armed merchant ships without warning. Using the German move as justification, the French likewise authorise attacks without warning.
February 1914: With the destruction of the Ottoman army in the Caucasus, the Ottoman Armenian minority rises in revolt.
February 1914: With France becoming increasingly dependant of British industry for their war effort, German cruisers begin attacking French shipping in the Channel. Operations are quickly abandoned after two cruisers are lost. However, this leads to the British stepping up their neutrality patrols and prohibiting warships entering the Channel or the delivery of strategic materials to channel ports to ensure its neutrality.
March 1914: Togoland and Kamerun are occupied by the French.
March 1914: British and Indian troops complete the occupation of southern Persia.
March 1914: In light of the war in Europe, the construction of three more Royal Navy gunboats on Lake Tanganyika is authorised to protect the Cape to Cairo railway.
March 1914: With the failure of the Austria-Hungary offensive in the Carpathians Russia returns to the offensive in the Carpathians.
March 1914: In the wake of the disaster in the Caucasus, the Ottomans are forced to reinforce the front with troops from the Balkans.
March 1914: The first atmospheric nitrogen fixation plant using the Haber-Bosch process begins operating in Germany. This process ends German dependence on Chile for nitrates.
March 1914: The British inform the Entente they regard any attempt to occupy German East or South West Africa as unacceptable. At the same time they inform the Germans they will occupy the colonies if they are used as military bases.
March 1914: As a result of the Armenian uprising, the Ottomans begin the forced deportation of Armenians within the Empire. These deportations will rapidly turn into genocide.
April 1914: Germany begins redeploying troops from the west for a drive to retake East Prussia.
April 1914: With the Lebel rifle proving to be troublesome due to it's length and tubular magazine and the Berthier limited by its three round clip, the French order a large number of Enfield rifles to supplement them. Since the Enfield can not easily be adapted to the 8mm Lebel and the French are already using the 0.303" British for aircraft, these are ordered in that calibre as the Fusil Mle 1914 "Enfield." The intention is to gradually phase out both the Lebel and Berthier along with the 8mm round.
April 1914: With the outbreak of war and the need to protect the East Indies, the Netherlands order four 26,000 ton battleships from Vickers. The ships are armed with eight 13.5" guns, capable of 22 knots and feature heavy deck armour for the anticipated long range fighting in the Java Sea.
April 1914: Using a Lewis LMG mounted on the top wing clear of the propeller, the French introduce the Nieuport 11, the first dedicated fighter aircraft.
April 1914: Mexican forces temporarily detain nine US naval personnel in the city of Tampico. President Huerta refuses to give an apology. As a result Congress authorises the occupation of Tampico and its oil fields. This action incites widespread anti US violence and riots throughout Mexico. Both President Huerta and revolutionary leader Venustiano Carranza condemn the action but neither are able to effectively oppose the occupation.
April 1914: With the Austro-Hungarians efforts focused on the Carpathian front the Bulgarians and Serbs both switch troops to face the Ottomans.
April 1914: The armed French merchant man Comte d'Artois is sunk off the French coast without warning. Three US crewmen are amongst those lost. In the wake of this the US public demand action and, despite a German apology, President Roosevelt gains Congressional approval to commit US warships to the British neutrality patrols in the Atlantic.
April 1914: With the war in Europe growing more intense, President Roosevelt again extracts approval for two battleships, two battlecruisers and six cruisers in the 1914 program. Again to reduce costs, they are to be of the same class as the smaller ships in the 1913 program.
April 1914: The Yao abandon their offensive in Hunan and an armistice e arranged. Both the Yao and Qing move to concentrate on developing their territories. However, the Yuan does not abandon his effective dictatorship, allowing the Qing to slowly pull ahead.
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And as the timeline evolves. Odd you should mention that. Wanders off trying to look innocent.
Oh and just in case anyone is worried, as I find I need to change an already posted segment, I go back and add the addition to the original post. Keeps everything together.
Just thinking that it's probably easier for the French, and Germans to get weapons to their colonies by buying them from the British and having them shipped to the nearest British colony on British (neutral) shipping, and pick them up there rather than ship domestically produced weapons on their own ships to their colony.
Most of the German colonies are gone, South West and East Africa remain because they're shielded by British territory, but the problem in the colonies was manpower not equipment. And the neutral shipping issue will be covered soon, as will the fates of the remaining German colonies
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IOTL's Turkish offensive (rather later, obviously) provided the climax to one of my favourite novels, John Buchan's Greenmantle.
Hitchcock wanted to film it (he thought it better than prequel The Thirty-Nine Steps), but the project was stillborn.
I shall make a point of reading it. I love reading and have been known to read the back of cereal packets in desperation, so any recommendations are always appreciated
And of course this got skipped too.
20th April 1903: Brazilian, Alberto Santos-Dumont makes the first controlled heavier than air flight in his 14-bis machine. Taking off from a field in Kent, he completes a 159' flight before successfully landing.
20th April 1903: Brazilian, Alberto Santos-Dumont makes the first controlled heavier than air flight in his 14-bis machine. Taking off from a field in Kent, he completes a 159' flight before successfully landing.
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By the way, for those who don't know who Santos-Dumont was, his flying in 1903 rather than 1906 will have a major impact on the development of aviation. His aircraft was more advanced than the Wrights, and he refused to patent making everything he developed public domain. Hence
December 1903: Orville and Wilber Wright make the first powered flight in the US. However, unlike Santos Dumont, they patent all their developments, greatly hindering the development of aviation in the US.
December 1903: Orville and Wilber Wright make the first powered flight in the US. However, unlike Santos Dumont, they patent all their developments, greatly hindering the development of aviation in the US.
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Another personal request. As someone has discovered, this timeline has a lot of personal importance to me. I want it to be the best it can. I've even enlisted the help of one my clients who happens to be a history professor specialising in the late Victorian and Edwardian period (he was surprised but very happy to help lol).
So while I really love people telling me what I'm doing right. Feeds my ego no end. What I really want is people to tell me what I'm doing wrong, to rip it to shreds and point out mistakes and where things don't make sense. I will listen and incorporate suggestions. So thank you for both the good and bad.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
So while I really love people telling me what I'm doing right. Feeds my ego no end. What I really want is people to tell me what I'm doing wrong, to rip it to shreds and point out mistakes and where things don't make sense. I will listen and incorporate suggestions. So thank you for both the good and bad.
I'll get off my soapbox now.