Why the Chinese play cricket (The Pax Imperialis)

July 1941: With the crushing defeat of Alafuzov's fleet and the failure to establish a solid beachhead, the French decide to withdraw their forces from the Balearic Islands. The withdrawal is to be covered by Darlan's fleet. However, the Italians again notified by the CW, sortie to intercept the evacuation force. The Battle of Menorca is another crushing Italian victory. The Reims class Verdun and Richelieu class Jean Bart are sunk and Dunkerque crippled by combined strikes by Italian aircraft from Bergamini's carriers and the Balearic Islands. Darlan abandons the crippled Dunkerque to escape under cover of darkness, allowing the Italians to finish off the Dunkerque the next day. Bergamini's victory leaves the Italians with undisputed control of the Mediterranean and with the disaster in the Ionian Sea, inflict a heavy blow on Entente morale.

So should I assume that the French decided that air cover was a formality and that the Italians had free reign over the skies? Especially after that Greek and Russian disaster in the Eastern Med and that said support did nothing to disrupt damage or at the bare minimum distract Italian naval aviation who somehow manage to sink or cripple three French battleships presumably damage many others despite this being the entire Med fleet providing AA cover and just about everyone presumably maneuvering at 20+ knots.

The Italian also appear to be really really good at carriers despite only getting their first real CV three years ago

September 1941: Messe's advancing forces recapture Tripoli. However the sheer pace of the advance has exhausted the Italian troops. To refit and resupply, Messe calls a halt to his offensive.

Tripoli is the major port in Italian Libya without it Italian supply lines need to come from Benghazi across a single metalled road so I'm wondering how they had the logistics to do this especially since Italian rail lines in Libya amount to this

220px-Rete_ferroviaria_Libia_Italiana.png


To be honest this basically read as an Italian wank with the Italian military somehow avoiding the problems of a poor procurement system, an under-industrialized country, and in all honesty, Italy barely passes the line for a Great power Poland even more so
 
Here’s a question how much of effect will the lack of Penicillin have on the USA, along with the other British Research that OTL USA gains in WW2 ?
 
To be honest this basically read as an Italian wank with the Italian military somehow avoiding the problems of a poor procurement system, an under-industrialized country, and in all honesty, Italy barely passes the line for a Great power Poland even more so

Italy also avoid 20 years of fascist mismanagement, the war in Abyssinia and the intervention in Spain, so it's general situation in term of economy will be much much better, plus there will be less pandering to the local industries to keep quiet the old money (that was a big cause of the poor procurement system) and less promotion of people for political reason. Not saying that magically Italy it's a steamroller, but she will be in much better position than OTL without Benny and co.
 
Italy also avoid 20 years of fascist mismanagement, the war in Abyssinia and the intervention in Spain, so it's general situation in term of economy will be much much better, plus there will be less pandering to the local industries to keep quiet the old money (that was a big cause of the poor procurement system) and less promotion of people for political reason. Not saying that magically Italy it's a steamroller, but she will be in much better position than OTL without Benny and co.

Yeah that's a given but going by the events in the recent turn Itay needs to have
A: Massively improved the infrastructure of Libya
B: Seriously built up their navy especially their naval aviation (carriers are fricking expensive)
C: Built up their air force and army to be able to conduct campaigns in both the Balkans and Libya and keep the skies above their major industrial centers in Milan and Turin unharassed from French aviation.

OTL Italy had the resources to do one of these things and they choose their navy ITTL I'd say they might be able to pull off two but I highly doubt their ability and willingness to invest in Libya
 
I love that expression. I have a mate who’s not a good sailor, and one day when we’re on a ferry somewhere I’m hoping for an opportunity to say “Never mind, worse things happen at sea - oh shit, we are at sea.”

That’s a major loss for the Greeks, whichever way you slice it...

Sorry, sorry, sorry...

Another typo blame auto correct for that one
 

Pangur

Donor
I am curious about some of the dynamics at play here. Both the US and UK do have a lot in common socially, far more than the US would have with Japan. For sure years of exercising together would go some ways to dealing with that least ways in the military however there surely has to be some social issues with the war. There would also be the question re the Irish in the US, how have they reacted to this reformed/better behaved UK? I can see going either way.
 
Won't comment on everything individually, but yes I've gone way too far with Italy. However the Italy of TTL is a vastly different beast than the OTL. Actually every major power is.
- Italy avoided throwing men at Austro-Hungarian machine guns in ten battles on the Izono
- Italy instead was perfectly positioned to sell to both sides and happily did so. I imagine Italian exports were mostly food to the CP but their industry would have got a boost too.
- When Italy did enter the war, their army's performance was to say the least less than stellar. They were in just long enough to know their military needed major reforms
- Italy was spared 20 years of economic mismanagement and political cronism. Instead they got 20 years of political stability and gradual reform.

I think I need to go back and add yet more to the TL to make this clear.

In the interim I've scrapped this chapter and will rewrite it once I've done that.
 
I am curious about some of the dynamics at play here. Both the US and UK do have a lot in common socially, far more than the US would have with Japan. For sure years of exercising together would go some ways to dealing with that least ways in the military however there surely has to be some social issues with the war. There would also be the question re the Irish in the US, how have they reacted to this reformed/better behaved UK? I can see going either way.

The general view of the CW in the US is not at all favourable. They see a Britain which sat back getting rich by selling to both sides while over a million of the United States finest young men were killed in Flanders by the weapons the British sold the Germans (this is exaggerated but not entirely incorrect). Then when the US had won the war, the British jumped in a did a blatant land grab (pretty much spot on actually). Now on top of this, the CW has waltzed in the US backyard and started plucking out countries which should be in the US sphere by god given right.

Yes there are still those cultural and social ties but there's a huge well of hostility too. And the US Irish? They're what keeps the IRA alive.
 
Yeah that's a given but going by the events in the recent turn Itay needs to have
A: Massively improved the infrastructure of Libya
B: Seriously built up their navy especially their naval aviation (carriers are fricking expensive)
C: Built up their air force and army to be able to conduct campaigns in both the Balkans and Libya and keep the skies above their major industrial centers in Milan and Turin unharassed from French aviation.

OTL Italy had the resources to do one of these things and they choose their navy ITTL I'd say they might be able to pull off two but I highly doubt their ability and willingness to invest in Libya

Libya was considered a settler colony from the beginning (the fascist just accelerated the politics and make them their because it greatly suited them), so investement there it's a given, plus unlike OTL there will be no massive redeployment of troops in the mainland due to the war, so post-war the necessity of a multiyear long campaign to reconquest Libya will not be there. There is also no Caporetto debacle and so the need to rebuild Veneto and rebuild the army from scratch due to the sheer equipment loss and in general no 4 years of war that wreck the economy and society, so yes, in general resources will be there
 
Libya was considered a settler colony from the beginning (the fascist just accelerated the politics and make them their because it greatly suited them), so investement there it's a given, plus unlike OTL there will be no massive redeployment of troops in the mainland due to the war, so post-war the necessity of a multiyear long campaign to reconquest Libya will not be there. There is also no Caporetto debacle and so the need to rebuild Veneto and rebuild the army from scratch due to the sheer equipment loss and in general no 4 years of war that wreck the economy and society, so yes, in general resources will be there

Actually ITTL the resources aren't there because the Italians also have Albania from 1919 on and that's what they'll be developing.
 
So should I assume that the French decided that air cover was a formality and that the Italians had free reign over the skies? Especially after that Greek and Russian disaster in the Eastern Med and that said support did nothing to disrupt damage or at the bare minimum distract Italian naval aviation who somehow manage to sink or cripple three French battleships presumably damage many others despite this being the entire Med fleet providing AA cover and just about everyone presumably maneuvering at 20+ knots.

I'm radically reworking the naval battles. Alafuzov is on a diversionary raid. So the moment aircraft appear, he's going to turn and run. He knows he's detected and since they're carrier aircraft, he knows he's successfully drawn off the Italians. So time to get the hell out of dodge. I can still see one of the Greek ships being lost, unmodified 1GW battlecruisers have no place in a modern battleline, but he'll keep his fleet intact.

The Italian also appear to be really really good at carriers despite only getting their first real CV three years ago

I need to clarify the level of contact between the RM and RN. But yes too good

Tripoli is the major port in Italian Libya without it Italian supply lines need to come from Benghazi across a single metalled road so I'm wondering how they had the logistics to do this especially since Italian rail lines in Libya amount to this

220px-Rete_ferroviaria_Libia_Italiana.png


To be honest this basically read as an Italian wank with the Italian military somehow avoiding the problems of a poor procurement system, an under-industrialized country, and in all honesty, Italy barely passes the line for a Great power Poland even more so

ITTL Italy is the fourth largest economy in the world. However they've focused primarily on Albania, so yes Libya is under developed.

Also ITTL, Poland is not Poland. It's Poland plus Galicia, Silesia and half of East Prussia along with considerable CW investment with the exact purposes of making them a viable rival for the Entente. Rather a lot more muscle. However they still only make number eight on the economy list, playing catch up with the French. Italy is the economic power behind the WP.
 
Italian development part 1
Additional entries to help explain how Italy developed ITTL. These are what laid the foundation for Italy becoming the fourth largest economy in the world. As well as Italy's post war relatively stable post war political environment.

August 1913: In a manner similar to Britain, the combatants begin placing war orders with Italy. While only a fraction of those placed with the British and initially primarily food stuffs, these orders promote the growth of Italian industry. Austria-Hungary in particular becomes dependent on Italian food and industry.

January 1914: The Ottomans begin placing orders for rifles, machine guns and artillery from Britain and Italy as it is proving difficult to get equipment from Germany.

February 1914: The Italian company Fiat obtains a production licence for the Enfield rifle to capitalise on its growing popularity. The cost of the licence will be recouped within three months as the French place massive orders.

March 1916: With the South American dreadnought race resuming, Argentina orders a 23,000 ton ship armed with ten 14" guns from Italy.

June 1916: Seeking to protect the oilfields in Kuwait, the British occupy Basra in Iraq. The Ottomans break off diplomatic relations with Britain, but are otherwise unable to take any action. However this leaves the Ottomans almost totally dependent on Italy for the supply of weapons and equipment.

February 1918: With the Empire's entry into the war the inevitability of a Central Powers defeat is an almost universal belief. With their economy now booming due to four years of war orders and penetration into the combatants abandoned markets, the Italians decide to enter the war. Anxious to secure territory, Italy begins negotiations with the Entente regarding territorial gains. Italy demands Albania, Dalmatia, Fiume, Istria, Littoral Croatia, South Tyrol and Trieste.

April 1918: The Entente are proving unwilling to meet the Italian demands. Italy refuses to relent. Eventually agreement is reached. Italy will be guaranteed part of Albania, South Tyrol and Trieste, with their other demands to be negotiated post war.

April 1918: Italy declares war and begins an offensive on the Izonzo River. Despite the massive Italian advantage in numbers, the Austro-Hungarians have established a formidable defensive position in the event of an Italian attack and the inexperienced Italians can make little headway.

May 1918: The Italians launch a second offensive in the Dolomites aimed at securing Tyrol. Again the Austro-Hungarians have established a formidable defensive position and resistance is fierce.

June 1918: The Austro-Hungarian defences on the Izono are finally breached. The Italians begin to advance through Istria. However the advance is slowed by continuing Austro-Hungarian resistance.

July 1918: The Italian Dolomite offensive has stalled due to the harsh terrain and strong resistance. Troops are withdrawn from the Istrian front to reinforce the Dolomites.

August 1918: While Istria has now been cleared, supply difficulties and troop withdrawals to the Dolomites force the Italians to halt their advance. This pause allows the exhausted and demoralised Austro-Hungarians to reform a defensive position.

September 1918: The Italians finally breakthrough in the Dolomites and begin advancing in Tyrol

October 1918: The Central Powers now collapsing, Italy opts to renew its offensive in the Dolomites. Further troops are diverted from Istria for a drive toward Innsbruck. Austro-Hungarian resistance is initially fierce, however their troops no longer have the morale or supplies to prevent a breakthrough and the Italians begin to advance.

November 1918: With the Austro-Hungarian Empire disintegrating and their army collapsing, the Italians launch an offensive to take Fiume. However their advance is checked by Croatian and Slovenian militias working in concert with the remaining Austro-Hungarian forces.

November 1918: Pressure fromthe Entente Powers forces the Italians to halt their attempts to take Fiume.

February 1919: The Treaty of Sevres between the Entente, Ottomans and the Empire is signed. [...]
* The Straits are internationalised under the control of a joint Bulgarian, French, Greek, Italian and Russian commission.
[...]
* Albania is split between Greece, Italy, Montenegro and Serbia, with the bulk going to Italy.
[...]
* Due to Imperial influence, only moderate reparations are imposed. However after Italian pressure, all Ottoman war debts are to be inherited by the new Turkish state.

April 1919: In the wake of the Italian army's poor performance during an extensive series of reforms is begun. These reforms will last for ten years and completely transform the army into one of the best in Europe.

June 1919: The Treaty of St Germaine is signed between the Entente, Empire and Austria-Hungary. [...]
* Galicia is ceded to Russia, while Bosnia and Dalmatia are ceded to Serbia, providing them access to the sea.
* Italy is awarded the promised South Tyrol and Trieste as well as Istria, but their other claims are rejected in favour of Croatia and Serbia. A significant segment of Italian public opinion is outraged at this "betrayal" by the Entente.
[...]
* Reparations are mild due to the Imperial delegation's highlighting the Austro-Hungarians shattered economy. But, again at Italian insistence, all war debts are to inherited by the successor states.
[...]
* The scuttled Austro-Hungarian fleet is to be scrapped.
[...]
The treaty however also stipulates in the event of a breakup of Austria-Hungary, the reparations, war debts, military and diplomatic restrictions will not be imposed on Transylvania.

11th September 1919: The Treaty of Versailles is signed with Germany.
[...]
* Once more, at Italy's insistence, all war debts are to be inherited.
 
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Italian development part 2
And interwar Italy

14th February 1920: Italy begins an extensive program to develop Albania, investing heavily capitalising on it move to a creditor nation during the war.

May 1920: While the majority of the Italian population are satisfied with the post war territorial gains, a vocal minority claim the treaties are a betrayal of the Italian nation. These nationalists frequently resort to violence to further their aims.

February 1921: Italy begins work on convertingthe armoured cruiser Varese to an aircraft carrier.

January 1922: Italian nationalists lead by Gabriele D'Annunzio march into Fiume to "liberate" the city. The Croatians avoid the use of force, instead calling for the Entente to remove the nationalists.

March 1922: Under a compromise arranged by the Entente, Italy imposes a blockade forcing the nationalists in Fiume to withdraw in return for a plebiscite to determine the city's fate. D'Annunzio however is hailed as a national hero by many in Italy, others however, satisfied with the post war settlement, are concerned at the possibility of drawn into a costly war.

August 1922: The plebiscite in Fiume elects to remain part of Croatia. A wave of outrage sweeps Italy with irredentists calling for war to gain the disputed territory. However the conservative Italian government of Antonio Salandra refuses to challenge the result.

February 1924: Gabriele D'Annunzio's Italian Nationalist Alliance wins 84 seats in the Italian elections, establishing him as the leader of the nationalist movement in Italy.

April 1924: Recognising the rising tide of Arab nationalism, Italy begins a program of gradual autonomy for Libya, Eritrea and Somalia patterned after the Imperial program in India. Albania however is to be directly incorporated into Italy itself.

September 1925: With the crisis deepening the Nationalist Alliance is able capitalise on fear of war and resentment at the post war settlement to force Italy's withdrawal from the Entente tipping the balance to the moderates within the Entente.

April 1927: Benito Mussolini's far right Fascist Party attempts a coup to overthrow the conservative government of Antonio Salandra. The coup is rapidly suppressed by the military and the leaders arrested. This failed coup leads to a collapse in support for nationalist parties and an end to the politicalviolence which has characterised Italy since the "Entente betrayal" at the end of the Great War.

February 1930: The Warsaw Pact begin conducting regular joint exercises to ensure interoperability of their forces.

May 1932: To match the French Dunkerque class, the Italians begin a radical reconstruction of their two Doria class battleships. The reconstruction will amount to a complete rebuild with the ships displacement increased to 27,000 tons, armed with ten 12.6" guns and capable of 28 knots.

August 1932: The Italian economy, hard hit by the Great Depression, has shrunk by 21% and unemployment soared. As with the rest of the world, this has lead to massive political instability, with a massive surge in support of extremist parties and a return to the political violence of the 20s. Prime Minister Giacomo Matteotti institutes a series of reforms, abandoning the gold standard, introducing social welfare programs and public works schemes, funded by deficit spending. Coupled with a firm crackdown on political violence, these reforms begin a gradually recovery and return to political stability.

May 1934: Giacomo Matteotti's reforms and subsequent economic recovery have steadily improved political stability in Italy. Seeing his support base diminishing, leader of the Italian Nationalist Alliance, Gabriele D'Annunzio's, secretly launches a campaign of terrorism by Benito Mussolini's underground Fascist movement to destabilise the country.

May 1934: The Italians begin the reconstruction of the Carricolo class battleships. While not as radical as the Doria class, the ships are reboilered, given additional deck armour, modern fire control and a new dual purpose secondary battery. The first pair will enter reconstruction in 1934, the second in 1937.

March 1935: Concerned by the growing belligerence of the Entente, Italian Prime Minister Giacomo Matteotti signs the Treaty of Warsaw.

May 1935: With their battlefleet rapidly becoming obsolete, the Italians order two new battleships and the conversation of the liner Roma to a fleet carrier as the Aquila. The Italia class will displace 41,000 tons, be capable of 30 knots and carry eight 15" guns. The Aquila will displace 23,000 tons and capable of 30 knots carrying 66 aircraft. In order to develop their naval aviation before the carrier becomes available, the Italian navy negotiates an agreement for Italian personnel to train on RN carriers. This is the beginning of close cooperation between the Italian and CW navies.

June 1935: Fascist terrorists assassinate Italian Italian Prime Minister Matteotti in a bomb attack which claims 15 lives. In response, a major crackdown on extremist groups is launched.

December 1935: In line with the CW policy of encouraging a return to free trade, the Treaty of Montreal creates a single free trade bloc covering the ABC powers of South America, the CW, Gaige China and the Warsaw Pact states. The Treaty includes provision for other nations to enter the trade bloc.

May 1937: The begin the rebuilding of the second pair of Caricciolo class battleships and order two new light carriers carriers. The carriers Falco and Sparviero will be an improved version of the CW Colossus class

January 1938: The Warsaw Pact adopt the Polish Kbsp wz.38M semi automatic rifle, the Czech ZB 33 LMG and ZB 53 MG in 7.92mm Mauser along with the Italian Beretta M1937 (a recoil locked development of their M1929) pistol and Beretta M1938 SMG in 9mm Parabellum as the standard service weapons throughout the alliance.

May 1938: The Italians order a further pair of Littorio class battleships while the three Cavour class ships enter a reconstruction similar to the Andrea Doria class, with the aging Dante Alighieri reduced to a training role.

January 1940: The Italian Macci C.202 powered by a licensed version of the German Daimler Benz DB601 engine, enters service with the Italian air force. The aircraft is also adopted by the Czech Republic and Poland as an interim measure as the development of their own fighters has been delayed. The aircraftrapidly proves to be an excellent fighter superior to any in Entente service.

May 1940: With tensions in Europe climbing the Italians order a further pair of Italia class battleships and two new carriers. Designed with CW assistance, the Grifone class are sightly modified versions of the Centaur class and expected to be in service by 1943.

May 1940: The Italians deploy troops and aircraft to the Balearic Islands, both to assist in their defence and to attack French shipping in the event of war.

August 1940: The French begin building up their North African Army for an invasion of Libya in the event of war. The Italians respond by strengthening their defences.
 
I had to go back and redo the entire Libyan campaign, since if the Italians have issues due to poor infrastructure, then so do the French.

October 1940: French troops cross into Libya from Tunisia. The Italian defenders begin to fall back.

November 1940: The French take Tripoli. However, with their supply lines under constant attack they are forced to bring their offensive to a halt.

February 1941: The French North African Army under General François d'Astier, renew their offensive in Libya. The Italians, with inadequate reinforcements, are forced back toward Misurata.

May 1941: With the French continuing to advance in Libya, having taken Misurata and now driving on Sirte, General Giovanni Messe is dispatched with two armoured corps to take over the Italian defence. Messe immediately orders the construction of a coastal railway linking Sirte with Ajdabiya.

June 1941: The Italians halt the French advance in Libya at the Battle of Al Garbiyat. Messe begins planning a counter offensive to drive the French away from the city.
 
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March 1924: King George II of Greece is overthrown in a national socialist coup.

Just realized this from a reread where did the National Socialists come from? Greece at this point was basically divided between a power struggle between King Goerges pro-German faction and Venizelos Pro Entente pro-expansion policy considering Greece's success in the Great War and it's minor success ITTL Turkish war I'd say Venizelos won without dealing with a proto-civil war so I'm assuming the Kings power is basically nill then, first of all, how did the National Socialists coup the government and 2nd of all how did they survive dealing with what is likely a populace that is unhappy with them being there
 
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