Or the Deluge doesn't occur or is much less destructive in scope allowing the King to sieze power and become an absolute monarchy and maybe give more power to the middle/lower classes considering the Sejm only caters to the nobles.
Union of The Three Crowns: The History of The Nordic Empire
- Thread starter Gabingston
- Start date
Chapter 11: Passing The Torch
Union of The Three Crowns: The History of The Nordic Empire
Chapter 11: Passing The Torch
Chapter 11: Passing The Torch
By 1555, the Kalmar Union had become fully Protestantized, the Livonian War was over and the first settlement in the New World had been founded. Christian II was satisfied with his accomplishments, and was going to spend the remainder of his time keeping the union stable and preparing his son John (or Hans) for the kingship. Christian was in his mid 70s by this time, so he was fully aware that he didn’t have a lot of time left. Prince John, who by this point was approaching 40, began taking on more and more duties that kingship would entail, knowing that in the near future he would be the one with the crown on his head, and, to quote Uncle Ben, with great power comes great responsibilities. In early December of 1558, Christian would come down with a severe bout of the flu. His condition would deteriorate over the course of the month, as the flu turned into pneumonia, and it became clear that this could be the end of the road for him. Finally, just two days after Christmas, on December 27th, 1558, Christian II breathed his last.
With this, Prince John officially became King John II. A state funeral was held for his recently deceased father on New Years’ Day 1559, where he, his wife/new queen and his children would pay their final respects to the late Christian. While John was now king, an official coronation would wait until late April, as it was to be joyful rather than somber (and the weather in Denmark in January kinda sucks). He and his wife Barbara of Brandenburg (who happened to be his first cousin) had been married in 1545 and had given birth to their first child, a girl named Margaret, in February of 1547. Next, they gave birth to a boy named Joachim in November of 1548. Unfortunately, he happened to be stillborn. The third time was the charm, though, as their third child was a surviving male born in June of 1550, who had been christened as Frederick. The fourth child, a male born in January of 1553 named Ernest died two months after birth. Fortunately, they made up for it the next year with a healthy baby boy, named Canute, who was born in August of 1554. After having four boys in a row, they finally had another girl in May of 1557, who they named Elizabeth. At the time of the coronation, Barbara was pregnant with her seventh baby, who would be a girl born in June of 1559 named Magdalene. They had two more children after that, a boy named Christian in September of 1562 and a girl named Dorothea in February of 1565. The children of John and Barbara would be given the best education available at the time, being taught religion, history, philosophy, multiple languages, art and politics by the best tutors money and privilege could buy. They were also given the opportunity to travel throughout the realm, going to areas as far off as Iceland, as well as to other areas of Europe like The Netherlands, Germany and Britain.
However, they’re not the main focus of this update, as this is about the reign of King John II. Having been noted for his intelligence since he was a boy and having had years to prepare for kingship, John would be quite an effective king. Apart from the expansion of the colonial empire in North America that I covered in the previous update, Hans also expanded the union’s reach back home. For example, the Nordic navy was further expanded, with the shipyards of major coastal cities bustling during this era, building ships ranging from smaller, more local trade vessels to grand carracks capable of traversing the high seas. This used up a lot of wood, and while Scandinavia had wood in droves, the abundant forests of the new world would come to aid the union in the future. After the successful conquest of Livonia, John would begin to eye future routes of expansion within Europe, particularly around the Baltic, the domination of which was the primary objective of Nordic foreign policy during this era. He couldn’t be too belligerent, though, as the Livonian conquest I mentioned in the last sentence had irked the two great powers in that area, Poland and Russia. The Kalmar Union, Poland and Russia were in a kind of three-way standoff, all having their own ambitions but unable to enact them, as any expansion would provoke the other two into teaming up and defeating the expanding power. The marriage with Barbara of Brandenburg did give the Kalmar Union additional ties to the HRE, but they weren’t a member of it, and expansion into it could be dangerous, since it would piss off the very powerful Habsburgs. Thus, John would decide to bide his time, waiting for a better opportunity to strike (I.E. me not knowing what to do with my writer’s block and deciding to kick the can down the road). With this period of peace, the population of the Kalmar Union would grow during the early part of John’s reign, with farmers expanding further into the Nordic forest and the cities of the union growing to be quite sizable for the time. Some land that had previously been agricultural but was abandoned during the Black Death was resettled, particularly in Norway. Denmark in particular was starting to get a bit crowded, due to it being made up of a small peninsula and even smaller islands, and some Danes went to the other, less densely populated crownlands of Sweden and the aforementioned Norway for land. A few even made it to the New World.
Speaking of the New World, the colonial events in mainland North America in John’s reign were covered in the last update, but other things did occur. For example, the crown was beginning to look into setting up colonies in the Caribbean and establishing trading posts in Africa and the Orient, although neither of those would come to fruition during John’s reign. An expedition to explore the northern seas of North America and possibly find the fabled Northwest Passage to the Far East was conducted during John’s reign, taking off from Bergen in April of 1566, following the typical Faroes-Iceland-Greenland route that ships headed to the North American colonies took. Instead of heading south towards Vinland, they instead went north along the west coast of Greenland, trying to go as far north as possible. Even in June, though, the sea was eventually blocked by ice, so they’d have to turn around at about the point that Soren Norby did on his first voyage several decades before. They’d follow the ice edge to the southern shore of Helluland, following that into a large strait. The island eventually curved northward, opening up into a large body of water, but this too was still ice covered even in the middle of summer. Thus, they would instead turn southward towards the other shore, to see where that led. The shore would turn towards the south, becoming the eastern shore of a large sea, and the barren tundra would slowly fade back into coniferous taiga as they went south. This would go on for quite a while, as it would take until mid August for them to finally get to the southernmost part of the sea where the shore would turn back northward. From there, they’d return back north and sail out, stopping in Vinland for some extra provisions before returning home by Christmas. The Kalmar Union would go on to further explore this northern sea (please suggest a name for the Hudson Bay) and would later establish trading posts in the region, largely for the fur trade. Fur traders would eventually explore and blaze trails across the continent, even making it to the Pacific Ocean, but that’s a story for another day.
This was kind of a filler update to give you guys some content while I figure out some more substantial events. Being 40-50 years into the timeline means that the butterflies are going to be spreading further and further out by this point, so it could be a bit before I get another update out. I’ll get back to that, though. For now, I’m gonna rest. I’ll see you guys in due time.
Nice new chapter, Scandinavia is secured religiously and ready for John II to take the crown. Hope to see more of Russia and Poland, war is bound to happen. Keep up the good work.
Two ideas:
- Navarre could remain an independent kingdom.
- The Vasas could still be elected as King of Poland and make the title hereditary.
That would make absolutely no sense in a timeline like this. The Vasas are at best one of many high Swedish noble families, there’s no way one of them could marry into Polish royalty as in otl, which is how they were elected in the first place.
Okay then. How about having Henry Valois refusing the offer to return to France and remain as King of Poland?
Catherine Jagiellon can marry John Frederick, Duke of Pomerania (1542-1600) if John Vasa is not available (as it was considered IOTL)
I've seen it done in Henry Tudor, Heretic, Father of Kings by Cate13 where Henry the 8th marries the Queen of Navarre at the time and gives birth to a son securing the succession while also having an ally in England. Not sure if this is entirely relevant to this TL but it could be done.
Just an idea I thought of that would allow more marriage options for Protestant monarchs.
I'm generally not going to change things from OTL if it isn't relevant to the TL or if I'm not interested in it. I don't see much of a reason for me to keep Navarre independent from Spain, and everything with Henry the 8th and his wives goes according to OTL, so Navarre won't change from OTL. Poland and Lithuania, on the other hand, is a different story. I'll post something more detailed soon enough.
I wouldn’t change stuff from OTL for the sake of changing things because it does feel rather…unnatural. But, if it’s related to the butterflies that you are planning/have already happened, I say go for it and see what kinds of changes there are. Just let the butterflies flow naturally.
Tbf ittl I do think the Scandinavians settling California would make some sort of sense considering that in otl California was settled by the New Englanders which would be Scandinavian ittl. I do think there'd be a large component of Dutch/Amerikaan and British speakers though (and even some Mexicans who basically get outpopulated by everyone else).
Considering the Midwest is contested land an Amerikaan nation with significant native influence be created during the late 19th century and unify the Mississippi River basin would be fun especially as they try to further expand to areas like the South.
Considering the Midwest is contested land an Amerikaan nation with significant native influence be created during the late 19th century and unify the Mississippi River basin would be fun especially as they try to further expand to areas like the South.
I think we're really jumping the gun for California right now. Especially since whose to say it doesn't stay Spanish? Or become French or British or smth? New England only settled California because it was in one country (America). We can't superimpose that on this timeline no questions asked.
Tbf California's American colonists came from a bunch of different sources so I'd expect that too, so it's more about who controls it.
Spain/Mexico/Hispanic California is a meme that I really dislike because it makes no sense for the Mexicans to actually settle it (it's a border region for the Mexicans and they had a long long time to settle it and ittl would be no different as the Spanish would at least get some of the mines they used otl so I don't see them actually doing settler colonialism in California).
It's more that I think that nations like Spain and the Netherlands would colonise like otl because of their modes of colonisation.
I've been reading a bit on Poland and Lithuania lately (on Wikipedia, I definitely wouldn't get a good grade in a college paper), and the end of the Jagiellonian rule in Poland and Lithuania in 1572 is a potential goldmine of an update. The last Jagiellonian king in Poalnd was Sigismund II, who despite being married three times died without an heir. He was at first succeeded by Henry of Valois, but he gave up his rule in the newly united Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to succeed his recently deceased brother Charles as King of France. He was then succeeded by Anna Jagiellon and her husband Stephen Bathory of Hungary, but they were both already middle aged by the time they ascended to the throne and died childless (side note, one of Stephen's relatives, Elizabeth Bathory, is infamous for being so cruel and sadistic that it would make Eric Cartman blush). Finally, the throne passed to Sigismund III of Vasa, whose family would hold the throne for the next 80 years.
However, as @Atterdag mentioned, the Vasas ITTL are but another Swedish noble family, not having become a ruling dynasty in the first place. The odds of them becoming Poland's ruling house ITTL are slim to say the least. This will have a few implications. First, Religion. Poland during the mid 16th Century had a strong Protestant movement, with around 1/4th of the nobility having converted to Protestantism, mainly of the Lutheran and Calvinist varieties. Sigismund II, the final Jagellion king, was notably lax towards religious matters, tolerating Protestants within his realm. There were proposals to form a Polish National Church that would unite all of the sects within Poland-Lithuania, but Sigismund II ran it by the Pope first, who naturally rejected it. Even then, Protestantism remained strong within Poland-Lithuania until the Counter-Reformation, which began under… Sigismund III of Vasa, who wouldn’t have come to the Polish throne in the first place. I’m not saying that Poland will go Protestant ITTL, but it is a distinct possibility, one that depends a good deal on the other big implication:
Look, I’m no expert when it comes to European dynastic politics. It is such a convoluted mess involving so many interlocking family trees that one change will eventually butterfly pretty much everyone by a certain point. I am going to keep the end of the Jagiellonian rule in Poland-Lithuania pretty similar, though, as Sigismund II was born just before the POD, and I don’t feel like having him marry someone else or having his three wives from OTL have kids. As for his successor ITTL, I’m not sure. I’ll still have Henry III of Valois exist, since both of his parents were born before the POD (which is probably the policy I’ll use from now on, if both parents were born before the POD, the person in question will exist. If not, they’ll be butterflied). The question here is whether his brother Charles will still die of Tuberculosis as he did IOTL. I’ve butterflied deaths before (cough cough John II cough cough), and it’s very plausible that Charles, who was only 23 at his death, would survive. However, Charles’s reign was a real shitshow to say the least, and his health (both mental and physical) went down the toilet after the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, which predisposed him towards the Tuberculosis he eventually died of. Anna Jagiellon and Stephen Bathory will still exist, as they both fulfill the pre-POD parents condition I laid out a few sentences ago, but they’ll still die without an heir.
What happens without the Vasas, though? Who would take the Polish-Lithuanian throne? It could be the Habsburgs. They’re THE big European dynasty of this era, Austria and Poland are both Catholic countries, and having control over yet another great European power would wank the Habsburgs even more than IOTL. There was a brief succession war between the Vasas and Habsburgs over the Polish Throne between 1587 and 1588, and while the Habsburgs lost IOTL, there would be no Vasa competitor to a Habsburg Poland ITTL. While Maximilian III could very well be butterflied ITTL, as both of his parents were born after the POD, some alternate Habsburg prince could take his place. It could be another dynasty, though. The Habsburgs would certainly implement the Counter-Reformation in Poland, eliminating Polish Protestantism as occurred IOTL. With the Habsburgs already controlling both Austria and Spain, adding Poland to their collection of crowns would definitely irk the rest of Europe. I could easily see some sort of anti-Habsburg coalition forming that would attempt to cut the Habsburgs down to size, likely led by the French. This could be an interesting conflict to write about, possibly tying in with TTL’s Dutch Revolt, which is still going to occur here in a similar manner to our world. Another possibility is that a major Polish noble house ascends to the throne. I don’t know who these houses would’ve been, but I’m sure you guys who know more than I do would have some suggestions. Finally, I could make this a true Nordic wank by having the Oldenburgs take the Polish-Lithuanian throne, permanently tying the Kalmar Union and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth together. This would be the most likely way to end up with a Protestant PLC, or at the very least a PLC with a stronger Protestant presence. With that said, I want to keep this on the realistic side and not make it a total wank for the Kalmar Union, so I’m hesitant to make an Oldenburg PLC a part of the TL. I’d like to hear your thoughts and suggestions relating to the course that Poland-Lithuania will take during the latter half of the 16th Century and into the 17th. With that said, it’s time for me to get to work on the Poland-Lithuania Update, so I’ll see you guy soon.
However, as @Atterdag mentioned, the Vasas ITTL are but another Swedish noble family, not having become a ruling dynasty in the first place. The odds of them becoming Poland's ruling house ITTL are slim to say the least. This will have a few implications. First, Religion. Poland during the mid 16th Century had a strong Protestant movement, with around 1/4th of the nobility having converted to Protestantism, mainly of the Lutheran and Calvinist varieties. Sigismund II, the final Jagellion king, was notably lax towards religious matters, tolerating Protestants within his realm. There were proposals to form a Polish National Church that would unite all of the sects within Poland-Lithuania, but Sigismund II ran it by the Pope first, who naturally rejected it. Even then, Protestantism remained strong within Poland-Lithuania until the Counter-Reformation, which began under… Sigismund III of Vasa, who wouldn’t have come to the Polish throne in the first place. I’m not saying that Poland will go Protestant ITTL, but it is a distinct possibility, one that depends a good deal on the other big implication:
Look, I’m no expert when it comes to European dynastic politics. It is such a convoluted mess involving so many interlocking family trees that one change will eventually butterfly pretty much everyone by a certain point. I am going to keep the end of the Jagiellonian rule in Poland-Lithuania pretty similar, though, as Sigismund II was born just before the POD, and I don’t feel like having him marry someone else or having his three wives from OTL have kids. As for his successor ITTL, I’m not sure. I’ll still have Henry III of Valois exist, since both of his parents were born before the POD (which is probably the policy I’ll use from now on, if both parents were born before the POD, the person in question will exist. If not, they’ll be butterflied). The question here is whether his brother Charles will still die of Tuberculosis as he did IOTL. I’ve butterflied deaths before (cough cough John II cough cough), and it’s very plausible that Charles, who was only 23 at his death, would survive. However, Charles’s reign was a real shitshow to say the least, and his health (both mental and physical) went down the toilet after the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, which predisposed him towards the Tuberculosis he eventually died of. Anna Jagiellon and Stephen Bathory will still exist, as they both fulfill the pre-POD parents condition I laid out a few sentences ago, but they’ll still die without an heir.
What happens without the Vasas, though? Who would take the Polish-Lithuanian throne? It could be the Habsburgs. They’re THE big European dynasty of this era, Austria and Poland are both Catholic countries, and having control over yet another great European power would wank the Habsburgs even more than IOTL. There was a brief succession war between the Vasas and Habsburgs over the Polish Throne between 1587 and 1588, and while the Habsburgs lost IOTL, there would be no Vasa competitor to a Habsburg Poland ITTL. While Maximilian III could very well be butterflied ITTL, as both of his parents were born after the POD, some alternate Habsburg prince could take his place. It could be another dynasty, though. The Habsburgs would certainly implement the Counter-Reformation in Poland, eliminating Polish Protestantism as occurred IOTL. With the Habsburgs already controlling both Austria and Spain, adding Poland to their collection of crowns would definitely irk the rest of Europe. I could easily see some sort of anti-Habsburg coalition forming that would attempt to cut the Habsburgs down to size, likely led by the French. This could be an interesting conflict to write about, possibly tying in with TTL’s Dutch Revolt, which is still going to occur here in a similar manner to our world. Another possibility is that a major Polish noble house ascends to the throne. I don’t know who these houses would’ve been, but I’m sure you guys who know more than I do would have some suggestions. Finally, I could make this a true Nordic wank by having the Oldenburgs take the Polish-Lithuanian throne, permanently tying the Kalmar Union and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth together. This would be the most likely way to end up with a Protestant PLC, or at the very least a PLC with a stronger Protestant presence. With that said, I want to keep this on the realistic side and not make it a total wank for the Kalmar Union, so I’m hesitant to make an Oldenburg PLC a part of the TL. I’d like to hear your thoughts and suggestions relating to the course that Poland-Lithuania will take during the latter half of the 16th Century and into the 17th. With that said, it’s time for me to get to work on the Poland-Lithuania Update, so I’ll see you guy soon.
I’d personally like to see a Protestant Poland under Henry Valois and his line. See the Polish monarchy properly centralise and Poland remain a great European power.
Glad you considered my ideas involving Poland-Lithuania. Speaking of which, I’ll like to see a succession war happen in the PLC that results in Poland and Lithuania splitting up under different monarchs with one of them going Protestant.
Not against the PLC breaking up in principle but it would be really bad for it as a whole and leave it vulnerable to its neighbours. Basically a repeat of OTL
Maybe the losing side gets to be King of an independent Ukraine?