May or may not happen as Poland lacks the Russian drive to conquer the Steppes to prevent another Golden Horde.
If Poland were to conquer Russia, IMO the Far East OTL conquered would simply see various nations formed within that area. You could maybe see China or some other nation take a look to possibly conquer if the have the opportunity.
 
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Complicated. Sometimes friends and allies and sometimes the worst of enemies. There were several missed chances to become proper allies against Russia though.
I do think then ganging up to murder Russia then sometimes fighting each other over the Baltic coast would make sense. It'd make sense for any further inland expansion to sour relations between the two nations. Also considering how the 20th century was for the Scandinavians I'd like to see how ittl goes considering they'd be a great power.
May or may not happen as Poland lacks the Russian drive to conquer the Steppes to prevent another Golden Horde.
Tbf it may work if they were trying to prevent a Russian state from forming in Siberia lol, after all I do think Russian settlers moving out of Europe proper to settle in Siberia is still a thing ittl. They wouldn't get to Alaska or California though. Also idk if they colonise Uzbekistan and Central Asia. Whatifalthist's video is a fun one tho.
If Poland were to conquer Russia, IMO the Far East OTL conquered would simply see various nations formed within that area. You could maybe see China or some other nation take a look to possibly conquer if the have the opportunity.
I do think the Japanese or the Chinese or even the Manchurians building their own nation would work. Korea in Manchuria would also work if they were able to have a Meiji period like Japan.

What do you guys think of China ittl? Most ppl like making China stronger than otl but I do want to see a scenario where China is split into multiple states. Basically there'd be a Canton and Shanghai states, with Xichuan and the North being separate states too. Idk who has Manchuria but a non Chinese one would be fun.
 
What do you guys think of China ittl? Most ppl like making China stronger than otl but I do want to see a scenario where China is split into multiple states. Basically there'd be a Canton and Shanghai states, with Xichuan and the North being separate states too. Idk who has Manchuria but a non Chinese one would be fun.
It would be interesting if China TTL permanently collapsed and maybe never reunited. Would have major ramifications all throughout Asia. The cultural/geopolitical/linguistic effects would be cool to explore. Maybe we can see a long lasting intense rivalry between Korea and Japan?
 
It would be interesting if China TTL permanently collapsed and maybe never reunited. Would have major ramifications all throughout Asia. The cultural/geopolitical/linguistic effects would be cool to explore. Maybe we can see a long lasting intense rivalry between Korea and Japan?
If let's say China collapses at about 1800 after the newest dynasty I do think if the Koreans take Manchuria they'd be allied with the other Northern states while Japan would be allied with the more maritime Southern states with all of them jockeying for resources inland.
 
If let's say China collapses at about 1800 after the newest dynasty I do think if the Koreans take Manchuria they'd be allied with the other Northern states while Japan would be allied with the more maritime Southern states with all of them jockeying for resources inland.
That reminds of map on r/imaginarymaps with an East/West World switch. The Roman Empire acted like China while the East saw China collapse permanently and basically become Europe. Japan and Korea if lead correctly IMO would definitely fight for dominance throughout China. I wonder how India would fair TTL? Maybe no colonial power grabs a hold of it?
 
I wonder how India would fair TTL?
I still do think India would be colonised but it could be colonised by different nations and some may be run more like a client state than 'direct rule from London'.

Also other nations can colonise India. Other than Britain there are a few options, not to mention the Kalmar Union could be a potential coloniser of India. Maybe ittl we get a 'scramble of India' which includes Tibet.
 
I do think then ganging up to murder Russia then sometimes fighting each other over the Baltic coast would make sense. It'd make sense for any further inland expansion to sour relations between the two nations. Also considering how the 20th century was for the Scandinavians I'd like to see how ittl goes considering they'd be a great power.
Yep, my thoughts exactly.
Tbf it may work if they were trying to prevent a Russian state from forming in Siberia lol, after all I do think Russian settlers moving out of Europe proper to settle in Siberia is still a thing ittl. They wouldn't get to Alaska or California though. Also idk if they colonise Uzbekistan and Central Asia. Whatifalthist's video is a fun one tho.
The Russians only started moving into Siberia en masse in the 1600s. It's very possibly butterflied if Russia gets eaten by Poland before then.
I do think the Japanese or the Chinese or even the Manchurians building their own nation would work. Korea in Manchuria would also work if they were able to have a Meiji period like Japan.
Korea blobbing into a massive empire would be interesting indeed.
What do you guys think of China ittl? Most ppl like making China stronger than otl but I do want to see a scenario where China is split into multiple states. Basically there'd be a Canton and Shanghai states, with Xichuan and the North being separate states too. Idk who has Manchuria but a non Chinese one would be fun.
I agree. China would be more interesting that way IMO.

Alternatively China does reunite and with no Russian Siberia, an alternate Chinese dynasty seizes Siberia. Sounds OP af ngl.


Also lol if Poland becomes a superpower ITTL, when the 20th century comes around, Poland can into space.
 
Yep, my thoughts exactly.
I do think we'd see a war in which the Kalmar Union loses against the Poles and subsequently the Kalmar Union goes to focus in on American colonisation.
The Russians only started moving into Siberia en masse in the 1600s. It's very possibly butterflied if Russia gets eaten by Poland before then.
This tl is in the 1600s the Russians are already moving out with the Cossacks.
Korea blobbing into a massive empire would be interesting indeed.
Yep totally, throwing in Korean Manchuria and stuff would make Asia very interesting if Korea and Japan get much bigger than otl in terms of their heartlands. After all there's a reason why there's a ton of Koreans in Kazakhstan.
Alternatively China does reunite and with no Russian Siberia, an alternate Chinese dynasty seizes Siberia. Sounds OP af ngl.
I do think that an alternate Qing could try to colonise Siberia but I'd think they'd ultimately fail considering otl (they'd be left with a lot of natives there) so it'd be similar to otl unless you basically have a totally different China at that time.

I also do like fractured China which would allow Asia to be more balanced (there's lots of unintelligible Chinese languages considering 'Chinese' really is 'a dialect with an army') with Korea and Japan holding the strings. Another interesting thing that could happen is a different colonisation of SEA and have a bunch of different islands speak European languages and even Asian languages like the various Chinese dialects like Teochew and Cantonese, Japanese and maybe even Korean.
Also lol if Poland becomes a superpower ITTL, when the 20th century comes around, Poland can into space.
Polansk can into space and Muscovy is rightful Polish clay!

Considering if we have fractured China and maybe India (a Hindi speaking North India with a Dravidian speaking south India is very possible) the closest competitors would be the French Antarctique and British Africa if it extends to Zambia. Hmm ittl southern come would be the most developed outside Europe.
 
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I do think we'd see a war in which the Kalmar Union loses against the Poles and subsequently the Kalmar Union goes to focus in on American colonisation.
Can believe it yeah though I don't see them ever losing Novgorod or Arkangelhsk.
This tl is in the 1600s the Russians are already moving out with the Cossacks.
Yeah but IMO it isn't necessary Poland expands into Siberia just cause of the Cossacks.
Yep totally, throwing in Korean Manchuria and stuff would make Asia very interesting if Korea and Japan get much bigger than otl in terms of their heartlands. After all there's a reason why there's a ton of Koreans in Kazakhstan.
I wonder where Japan can go to expand though other than Hokkaido, Karafuto, and Formosa. Kamchatka and Novobirsk?
 
Can believe it yeah though I don't see them ever losing Novgorod or Arkangelhsk.
Yeah I see them being important cities for trade. It'd be ironic for the Kalmar Union to hold Lithuania when the Kalmar union's at its strongest.
Yeah but IMO it isn't necessary Poland expands into Siberia just cause of the Cossacks.
Tbf a bunch of independent Siberian states is possible but making Poland stretch to most of Siberia is a fun prospect too. And I do think if the Cossacks and Slavs colonise Uzbekistan it'd be the second Slavic homeland at that point which would be interesting for it not getting to the Amur.
I wonder where Japan can go to expand though other than Hokkaido, Karafuto, and Formosa. Kamchatka and Novobirsk?
Idk what Novobirsk is (it's deep in Siberia) but they could go to colonise the Philippines and Borneo and maybe even take control of the Malacca strait.
 
I do think it'd be fun for the alliance of the PLC and the Kalmar Union to be like this: basically every time a big threat comes like Russia or Germany comes along they ally to destroy the threat but after the threat is dealt with they go back squabbling with each other.

It'd be like 'if the Kalmar Union and Poland unite, the world will tremble' or something like that.
 
Yeah I see them being important cities for trade. It'd be ironic for the Kalmar Union to hold Lithuania when the Kalmar union's at its strongest.

Tbf a bunch of independent Siberian states is possible but making Poland stretch to most of Siberia is a fun prospect too. And I do think if the Cossacks and Slavs colonise Uzbekistan it'd be the second Slavic homeland at that point which would be interesting for it not getting to the Amur.

Idk what Novobirsk is (it's deep in Siberia) but they could go to colonise the Philippines and Borneo and maybe even take control of the Malacca strait.
Mixed up I think. That region north of the Valadivostok oblast is what I meant.

The Philippines are currrntly Spanish but who knows how that goes
 
Mixed up I think. That region north of the Valadivostok oblast is what I meant.

The Philippines are currently Spanish but who knows how that goes
Ah I see. It'd be a good avenue of expansion and I'd see Japan fighting someone over it. Maybe Korea + Manchuria?

I do think the Philippines could be conquered by Japan and colonised properly if they did it before the mid 19th century but doing it during the 17th to 18th century makes a lot more sense.
 
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