The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World
- Thread starter WaterproofPotatoes
- Start date
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At long last, the converted Japanese battleship-carriers! These are uncomfortable ships, even by Japanese standards. The funnels are positioned very close to the pagoda masts, only somewhat mitigated by the Y-shaped exhaust outlets applied. The long shaft runs, partially mitigated by replacing the original direct drive turbines with geared turbines, make resonance vibrations particularly brutal.
Fuso Class (converted 1939-1941):
Flag: Japan
Type: Aviation Battleship
Ships in Class:
Fuso
Yamashiro
Dimensions: 715' x 108' x 29'. 39 000 t standard.
Main Armament: 4 x 14" guns in two 2-gun turrets.
Air Wing: 24 + 3 reserve
Propulsion: Oil-fired boilers, geared steam turbines. 26 kn rated speed. 100 000 shp.
Characteristics:
-Normal, raked bow, raised forecastle, raised and overhanging flight deck abaft funnel
-Very tall pagoda masts
-Two 14" mounts ahead of superstructure, on centreline end. One raised mount superfiring.
-Funnels trunked into forward funnel; original mixed firing boilers replaced with oil-firing boilers, direct-drive turbines replaced with geared turbines.
-Outward angled, Y-shaped exhaust outlet atop funnel
-Lengthened 40' astern during reconstruction; flight deck overhangs an additional 10'.
-Angled flight deck.
-Steam catapults.
Ise Class (converted 1939-1941):
Flag: Japan
Type: Aviation Battleship
Ships in Class:
Ise
Hyuuga
Dimensions: 743' x 104' x 30'. 41 000 tons at standard load.
Main Armament: 4 x 14" guns in two 2-gun turrets.
Air Wing: 32 + 4 reserve
Propulsion: Oil-fired boilers, geared steam turbines. 26 kn rated speed. 110 000 shp.
Characteristics:
-Normal, raked bow, raised forecastle, raised and overhanging flight deck abaft funnel
-Very tall pagoda masts
-Two 14" mounts ahead of superstructure, on centreline end. One raised mount superfiring.
-Funnels trunked into forward funnel; original mixed firing boilers replaced with oil-firing boilers, direct-drive turbines replaced with geared turbines.
-Outward angled, Y-shaped exhaust outlet atop funnel
-Lengthened 45' astern during reconstruction; flight deck overhangs an additional 15'.
-Angled flight deck.
-Steam catapults.
Fuso Class (converted 1939-1941):
Flag: Japan
Type: Aviation Battleship
Ships in Class:
Fuso
Yamashiro
Dimensions: 715' x 108' x 29'. 39 000 t standard.
Main Armament: 4 x 14" guns in two 2-gun turrets.
Air Wing: 24 + 3 reserve
Propulsion: Oil-fired boilers, geared steam turbines. 26 kn rated speed. 100 000 shp.
Characteristics:
-Normal, raked bow, raised forecastle, raised and overhanging flight deck abaft funnel
-Very tall pagoda masts
-Two 14" mounts ahead of superstructure, on centreline end. One raised mount superfiring.
-Funnels trunked into forward funnel; original mixed firing boilers replaced with oil-firing boilers, direct-drive turbines replaced with geared turbines.
-Outward angled, Y-shaped exhaust outlet atop funnel
-Lengthened 40' astern during reconstruction; flight deck overhangs an additional 10'.
-Angled flight deck.
-Steam catapults.
Ise Class (converted 1939-1941):
Flag: Japan
Type: Aviation Battleship
Ships in Class:
Ise
Hyuuga
Dimensions: 743' x 104' x 30'. 41 000 tons at standard load.
Main Armament: 4 x 14" guns in two 2-gun turrets.
Air Wing: 32 + 4 reserve
Propulsion: Oil-fired boilers, geared steam turbines. 26 kn rated speed. 110 000 shp.
Characteristics:
-Normal, raked bow, raised forecastle, raised and overhanging flight deck abaft funnel
-Very tall pagoda masts
-Two 14" mounts ahead of superstructure, on centreline end. One raised mount superfiring.
-Funnels trunked into forward funnel; original mixed firing boilers replaced with oil-firing boilers, direct-drive turbines replaced with geared turbines.
-Outward angled, Y-shaped exhaust outlet atop funnel
-Lengthened 45' astern during reconstruction; flight deck overhangs an additional 15'.
-Angled flight deck.
-Steam catapults.
No longer much good as line battleships, the aim is to provide the slower battle line with air cover and dive bombers to extend its reach.
Definitely a compromise, however. Another issue is that their 26kn top speed is slower than the 28kn rebuilt Tosas and Nagatos, and hopeless compared to the dedicated fast combined squadrons.
Too early for either? Angled flight deck got invented in 1945 and steam catapults in the early 1950s if memory serves?
At least not every idea can be a good idea! Though, given the response it provoked, it can be worth it, arguably.
TTL, angled decks have a much longer history- the USN's Syren class flight deck cruisers introduced the concept. The RN developed the steam catapult to future-proof against rapidly rising aircraft weights, as the RN has more constricted harbours to deal with
Got any sketches / images?
Also, Very tall pagoda masts. Taller than OTL or the same, and how will that affect wind flow over the flight deck?
Cheers
Got any sketches / images?
Also, Very tall pagoda masts. Taller than OTL or the same, and how will that affect wind flow over the flight deck?
Cheers
I wish I was more talented with Shipbucket!
OTL, Fuso's were something like 130'/42m tall. They are the same TTL, as will Ise's. That, and the funnel behind them, will make for a less-than-ideal deck to land on. It will be quite cramped as well, although partially mitigated with an angled deck.
The OTL Ises used gunpowder catapults- that will not be the case TTL, with steam catapults fitted. D3As are able to take off and land without undue difficulty.
It is my great pleasure to introduce an upcoming guest post by @Luminous on the US cruiser lineup!
We have chatted about it extensively, but much hard work, to the tune of Excel spreadsheets and translating articles from out of print books was done on Luminous' part, so prepare to feast your eyes on the upcoming cruiser buffet!
We have chatted about it extensively, but much hard work, to the tune of Excel spreadsheets and translating articles from out of print books was done on Luminous' part, so prepare to feast your eyes on the upcoming cruiser buffet!
USN WII Cruisers
United States Cruisers in Service, Construction, and Design as of May 1941
All ship classes by date of order
*=under construction
**=scheduled for construction
^=under refit
v= reconstructed
>= proposed reconstruction
Pre-Treaty Designs
Omaha Class (1922) (10 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser (originally scout cruiser; last broadside cruiser built)
550'x 55'-4.5"x15'-1"
7114.6 tons standard load
2x2+8x1 6"/53 guns in 2 twin turrets & 8 casemates, 2x3 21" TT (actual armament varies per vessel)
34.92 kn, trial max
CL-4 Omaha
CL-5 Milwaukee
CL-6 Cincinnati
CL-7 Raleigh
CL-8 Detroit
CL-9 Richmond
CL-10 Concord
CL-11 Trenton
CL-12 Marblehead
CL-13 Memphis
The Omaha class, belated in construction as it was from the Big Navy Act of 1916, was obsolete when it was launched - a broadside cruiser in the world of turreted vessels, the Omaha was an exercise in catching up to the British, while attempting to outdo them in all regards. Originally carrying 12 6"/53 guns (8 gun broadside, 6 guns end on), 10 torpedo tubes, 224 mines and 2 catapults with aircraft, in addition to smaller munitions, the fast cruisers were overweight and poor seaboats that were the attempt of putting too much on a single hull.
In later refits, 4 torpedoes were landed from the gun deck amidship, and in many vessels, the aft lower casemates were removed due to excess water entering the ship (though not in all cases). A couple of vessels had a single 6"/53 on a deck mount placed amidship between the aft turret, though the majority of those with guns removed received none in its place. The mines were removed as well, all of these additions compensating for the growth in electronics and anti-air armament.
Due to their new construction for the time, various vessels had different turbines and gear arrangements, resulting in three effective subclasses with different performance values - the short ranged, slow cruising CL-4 & CL-6, the short ranged, fast cruising CL-7 and CL-8, and the long ranged, moderate cruising CL-5, CL-9, CL-10, CL-11, CL-12, and CL-13. This division lead to the vessels being split up in priorities. Omaha and Cincinnati tended to remain on convoy duty and low key duties. Raleigh and Detroit served either as the flagships of destroyer squadrons or as elements of the Scouting Force, while the remainder were shifted around on various independent and second line duties. However, they are still the fastest cruisers in the US fleet and more heavily armed than any other light cruiser from their era, so they have a place in the fleet even with all the new construction.
Treaty Designs
Pensacola Class (1930) (3 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser (originally light cruiser; designation altered due to LNT)
570'x65'-3"x18'-4"
9096.8 tons standard load
3x2+2x2 8"/55 guns in 2 twin & 2 triple mounts
32.78 kn, trial max
CA-24 Pensacola
CA-25 Salt Lake City
CA-26 Northampton
This class was chopped down by the WNT, losing 2 8" guns and sufficient armor protection and speed, though the vessel still was very heavily armored for its time, though it still didn't quite have the legs of the Lexington class and Omaha class. Was underweight when built, tantamount to engineers' efforts to save weight due to the treaty terms; ballast had to be added to the keel to bring performance in line. Two triple torpedo mounts were removed from the vessel early in its life due to water overflowing the bays
[Effectively OTL Pensacola Class]
Chester Class (1930) (5 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser (originally light cruiser; designation altered due to LNT)
582'x66'-7/8"x18'-11"
9390.4 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 triple mounts
32.76 kn, trial max
CA-27 Chester
CA-28 Louisville
CA-29 Chicago
CA-30 Houston
CA-31 Portland
A concurrent design with the Pensacola class, which featured a slightly beamier and heavier ship with a simpler main gun arrangement, sacrificing one gun for a shorter hull. The Chester otherwise is very similar, but with better performance throughout, with higher freeboard, especially in the latter three vessels, which received flag quarters as replacement for the then-flagship Tennessee-class cruisers (two of which, IX-39 Seattle and IX-41 Charlotte serve as receiving ships at this point in time).
[Effectively OTL Northampton Class]
Syren Class (1932) (4 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
637'x62.5'x19.4'
10,000 tons standard load, nominal
3x3 6"/47 guns in 3 triple turrets (later 3x2 6"/47 DP guns in 3 twin turrets)
24 aircraft
32.5 kn, design
>CLV-1 Syren
^CLV-2 Flirt
^CLV-3 Vixen
>CLV-4 Sylph
A design that arose from the London Naval Treaty and the US's desire for more decks, but also more cruisers, the Syren was unique for its time, incorporating a flight deck and corresponding aircraft to a heavy armament of 9 6"/47 guns, all firing forward (C superfiring over B), which was still a heavier armament than most other light cruisers at the time. Poorly armored, the vessels were nearly axed by the beginning of the Depression, but due to the glut of light cruisers available due to treaty terms, "wasting" tonnage was less of a concern than OTL. The construction of the Panzerschiffe sealed the deal, as the hybrids were the treaty cruisers best suited for combating the overarmed, underamored cruisers. The ship's design problems resulted in unique solutions, with an angled flight deck to add additional length for the takeoff run. Working well initially, this unit faced problems leading into the mid 1930s, resulting in a refit to add a catapult forward in exchange for aft 5"/25 guns being removed (which were unable to fire upon anything, as it stood, due to poor angles).
The unique design itself created a natural platform for a heavy caliber AA weapon, which itself leads to continued development of the 6"/47 DP for potential use on future platforms. By 1940, the weapon had proceeded along development enough that the decision was made to begin refits of this class (later classes needed less work, so were deferred) - bulges were added the remaining 5"/25 guns were landed, and twin 6"/47 guns were installed on the conical barbettes (these turrets were less effective than full-fledged variants used on later vessels, and had slightly lower rate of fire). Syren had not yet entered refit as of the torpedoing of Saratoga.
Naming scheme derives from their status as "timid" cruisers in Navy theoretical schemes, who openly flirt with combat and tease engagement, but never actually commit themselves fully at risk to themselves. The original Syren herself was one of two ships responsible for burning the captured Philadelphia during the Barbary, with her crew assisting the Intrepid's in the act.
[Effectively OTL Cruiser no. 39 upon laying down.]
San Francisco Class (1934) (4 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
578'x61.75'x21'-8"
10,050 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 triple turrets
32.36 kn, trial max
CA-32 San Francisco
CA-34 Tuscaloosa
CA-35 Indianapolis
CA-36 Wichita
The break imposed by the beginning of the Depression slowed cruiser construction, allowing further refinement of the original heavy cruiser design. The vessel was altered to increase armor protection throughout, taking better advantage of available tonnage than previous heavy cruisers in the US Navy, while also incorporating full-fledged turrets vs the mounts of previous generations. These vessels had no particular issue either in performance or firepower, fulfilling duties where previous ships had not; however, low speed and short range, combined with inadequacy against larger foreign vessels, hampered them.
[Effectively OTL New Orleans Class]
Boise Class (1935) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
610'x60'-7.5"x22'-10.75"
10,682 tons standard load
5x3 6"/47 guns in 5 triple turrets
33.7 kn, trial max
CL-33 Boise
CL-37 New Orleans
CL-38 Minneapolis
CL-39 Quincy
These vessels were the first purpose-built light cruisers of the US Navy in 12 years, and took a lot of experience from the Syren class. Larger than the Omaha, the Boise class possesses 15 guns (originally designed as such when, according to initial rumors, the Mogami class would be equipped with the same) in the similar conical barbettes as the Syren class. The ship is one of the first of a series of mostly standardized designs for the next few years, with general dimensions barely changing.
The ships were designed primarily to serve as screening elements for the fleet against enemy destroyers, and to act on long-range patrol when necessary. The ships tended to err a little heavy, close to being slightly overweight, compared to other vessels - the mistakes of the Omaha were not repeated.
[Effectively OTL Brooklyn Class, expect C turret superfires over B instead of vice versa, and A, B, and C turrets face forward]
Teaser Class (1935) (4 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
637'x64.5'x20.4'
10,970 tons standard load, nominal
3x3 6"/47 guns in 3 triple turrets (later 3x2 6"/47 DP guns in 3 twin turrets)
24 aircraft
32.5 kn, design
>CLV-5 Teaser
>CLV-6 Lorelei
>CLV-7 Harpy
>CLV-8 Mystic
Improved versions of the preceding Syren class, the Teaser class included various modifications to make life easier. Slightly altered gun arrangements forward, with the B turret being lowered to also lower the C turret slightly, was coupled with the removal of the 5"/25 for the addition of 2x2 5"/38 guns forward and aft of the island. The deck angle was slightly increased to lengthen the deck further, and a larger catapult section forward of the elevator to launch the heavier monoplanes of the mid 1930s.
The vessel could never carry a full load of its aircraft at peacetime, as the Teaser class was the largest cruiser of the prewar navy - as such, care was taken to not violate the letter of the treaty terms, though some lines were skirted tightly. Due to this limitation, captains were encouraged to try and increase aircraft recovery and launch speed in order to cycle the limited load into and out of combat. To this end, an enterprising crew on the Harpy realized that, thanks to the angled deck and launch catapults (launching to the starboard side, as a forward launch would risking striking the turrets on a misfire of the hydraulic catapult), along with the midship elevator, aircraft could be launched and recovered simultaneously - leading to further design study and eventual incorporation of the feature on full fledged carriers on a trial basis.
The Teaser class is expected to receive similar refits to the Syren class after the prior class is completely refit.
[ATL Cruiser no. 39, slightly enlarged with minor differences]
Philadelphia Class (1937) (5 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
610’x61’-10.33”x22’-6”
10,238 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 triple turrets
33.75 knots, design
CA-40 Philadelphia
CA-41 Vicennes
CA-42 Nashville
CA-45 Amsterdam
CA-46 Tallahassee
Following along the example of the Boise class, these vessels are effectively a heavy cruiser variant of a mostly similar hull. Done in an attempt to save costs on hull design, along with normalizing performance throughout the fleet, the ships had some initial issues, being topheavy like so many other American cruisers, resulting in ballast being required. The vessels, with a successful hull form and decent armor, were a lower cost counterweight to Japanese construction that was ongoing (though individually inferior in terms of tonnage). The issues were corrected in subsequent classes.
[Effectively worse Wichita with 8x1 5"/25 secondaries]
Savannah Class (1938) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
610'x60'-7.5"x22'-10.5"
10,682 tons standard load
5x3 6"/47 guns in 5 triple turrets
33.04 kn, trial max
CL-43 Savannah
CL-44 Helena
CL-49 Phoenix
CL-50 Helena
A follow on to the prior class of light cruisers, the Savannah were modestly improved in armor protection, antiair gunnery, and overall performance, lacking some of the weight issues other similar vessels had. Most notably is the addition of 4x2 5"/38 guns for AA defense, far improved over the 5"/25, and possessing better fields of fire. Other internal changes were made to machinery, but otherwise the vessels were similar to their predecessors.
[Effectively OTL St Louis Class]
Brooklyn Class (1938) (4 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
610'x61'-9.75"x22'-7.75"
10,565 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 three-gun turrets
33.6 kn, design
CA-47 Brooklyn
CA-48 St. Louis
CA-51 Buffalo
CA-52 Dayton
Akin to the Savannah, these vessels differed little in overall appearance. Improved AA, machinery, and superstructure along with the hull minimized the need to trim the vessels. These were the last ships approved under the 1929 Cruiser Act, finally filling out the allotted 19 Heavy Cruisers and 26 total Light Cruisers afforded by the treaty.
[Effectively improved Wichita class]
The Follies
Atlanta Class (1939) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser (later Light Cruiser, Anti-air)
530'x52'-10"x19'-3.75"
6,593 tons standard load
8x2 5"/38 guns in 8 twin turrets, 2x4 21" TT
33.67 kn, trial max
CL-53 Atlanta
CL-54 Juneau
CL-55 Flint
CL-56 Reno
The first in a series of new designs, these light cruisers borrowed heavy from destroyer design philosophy to construct vessels to act as super-destroyer-leaders, similar to the Omaha class cruisers (of which they were still slower). Possessing over triple the armament of every destroyer in service, these vessels easily fit as leaders of those fleets. An additional 8 were proposed [compared to 4 OTL] to flesh out the vessels as replacement for the aforementioned class. However, their thin armor and topheavy nature limited their performance, especially in rough seas.
[Effectively OTL Atlanta Class]
Rochester Class (1939) (4 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser (later Light Cruiser, Anti-air)
555'x55'x20'
6,783 tons standard load, nominal
2x2+2x1 8"/55 guns in 2 twin and 2 single turrets, 4x4 21" TT (later 10x2 5"/38, 2x4 21" TT)
34 kn, design
^CA-57 Rochester
vCA-58 Spokane
vCA-59 Gary
vCA-60 Kansas City
Instead of repeat Atlanta, a daring proposal was made to construct cruisers of much lighter displacement with 6" and 8" guns in order to cut costs and to increase number of vessels - Japanese and British building programs worried the neutral US, and rapprochement between the nations did plenty to ruffle the feathers of the US brass. This was echoed in the halls of Congress, where the funding for these vessels were proposed to herald in a new era in design. It also was specifically designed to have the same hull to be used for either of the 6" or 8" classes in order to reduce costs still (the 5" class was further ahead in the design stage and proceeded ahead of the other two classes).
However, the design was overambitious and failed drastically, as the vessels could not effectively perform their assigned function - the 8" guns were cramped and could barely put up an appropriate volume of fire, and even the older Japanese vessels of similar number of guns. Conditions were poor and cramped, and reports from the first vessel completed were unsatisfactory. Construction was immediately paused and, unable to rectify the issues, the vessels were instead converted into larger versions of the Atlanta, where they have served much better in the same function. Kansas City has the ignominious distinction of being rebuilt while still on the ways, never having even launched.
[ATL Design, similar to following, but with 8" guns replacing 6" guns]
Tucson Class (1939) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser (later Light Cruiser, Anti-air)
555'x55'x20'
6,783 tons standard load, nominal
4x2 6"/47 guns in 4 twin turrets, 4x4 21" TT (later 6x2+4x1 5"/38, 4x4 21" TT)
34 kn, design
vCL-61 Tucson
^CL-62 Fresno
vCL-63 Wilkes-Barre
vCL-64 Macon
Similar to the Rochester, these vessels had similar issues. The 6" guns, while able to fire without the difficulties of the 8", were still unsatisfacotry, especially after it was determined that RF or DP 6" guns could not be fitted on such a small vessel without further modification of the hull, which defeated the point of the project in the first place. Furthermore, these vessels were found to be even more topheavy than the 8" gun cruisers due to additional turrets, and were found to be unsatisfactory. All units, including Macon (still on the ways as well), were converted into similar vessels to the Atlanta.
[Similar to Design 507, The Cruiser-Destroyer, but enlarged, sans aircraft, with Gridley torpedo layout]
War Designs
Vincennes Class (1941) (18 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
664'x67.5'x22'
13,600 tons standard load, nominal
5x2 6"/47 DP guns in 5 two-gun turrets
32.75 kn, design
CL-65 Vincennes
*CL-66 Montpelier
*CL-67 Baltimore
*CL-68 Pittsburgh
*CL-69 Denver
*CL-70 Columbia
*CL-71 Pasadena
*CL-72 Columbus
**CL-73 Santa Fe
**CL-88 Boston
**CL-89 Vicksburg
**CL-90 Fargo
**CL-91 Newark
**CL-92 Albany
**CL-93 San Diego
**CL-94 Little Rock
**CL-95 Vallejo
**CL-96 Cheyenne
One of two light cruiser classes ordered in the Two-Ocean Navy Act after the fall of France, the Vincennes class was one of two simultaneous designs put into production, and the first vessel from the ground up to use the full-scale 6"/47 DP gun in its original barbette design, allowing it to reach the full capabilities of rate of fire [not as good as OTL 6"/47 DP Mk 16, but comparable]. Armor coverage was also increased; positions on previous vessels used for the secondary guns was replaced by mounts for 40mm mounts.
The hull itself was similar, if improved, in comparison to the previous ships in the line, making redesign fairly simple, although the complexity of the 5 turrets did lead to some concerns (there were, however, a few alternate designs that would have added up to 8 turrets in order to match the number of barrels).
One concern was the lack of any intermediate secondary gun for point defense - the 40mm did not have the range to effectively engage light craft, and adding any large gun would be ineffective for the purposes at hand. Various projects were started to find an intermediate caliber secondary gun that could handle the heavy AA needs of the 40mm while also being effective at penetrating surface targets. Various designs from 3" to 4" are being studied as potential replacements for ships under construction.
[Effectively a Super OTL Brooklyn with DP main guns]
Cleveland Class (1942) (8 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
664'x72'x22'
14,200 tons standard load, nominal
4x3 6"/47 DP guns in 4 three-gun turrets
32.5 kn, design
CANCELLED AND REORDERED
Iris Class (1942) (8 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
664'x72'x22'
14,618 tons standard load, nominal
3x2 6"/47 DP guns in 5 twin turrets
28 aircraft
32.5 kn, design
*CLV-9 Iris (ex-Cleveland)
*CLV-10 Nymph (ex-Manchester)
*CLV-11 Temptress (ex-Astoria)
*CLV-12 Undine (ex-Miami)
*CLV-13 Medusa (ex-Portsmouth)
**CLV-14 Dryad (ex-Oakland)
**CLV-15 Succubus (ex-San Juan)
**CLV-16 Faerie (ex-Youngstown)
The Cleveland, originally, was an ambitious project to incorporate a 6"/47 DP gun into a triple mount in an effort to get more guns on a ship of similar size - eager to see the project through, the mount was pursued with enthusiasm. However, early results were disappointing, and even after much work, rate of fire was dismal - at best, the "Cheesebox" triple mount (noted for its shape) was barely superior to the twin gun in putting lead down range, making the twin mount a much more economical choice.
This, combined with the sudden urgency of the war and the effectiveness of Syren in dealing with the U-Boat that menaced Saratoga lead to the ships being cancelled and reordered as hybrids. Redesigned, with three twin turrets forward and superfiring over each other (using the same size magazine for 6 guns, so no change needed below the barbettes), this larger hybrid can effectively use even some of the larger aircraft in Navy stores, though it still prefers the Airabonita and Airavilloso fighters and are planned to retain them. Improved deck length, catapult construction, and intermediate AA guns make the ship far more complete than the earlier limited hybrids, though it still doesn't tick every box for a purpose built ship.
[Effectively a Cleveland Class cruiser with DP guns and no 5" guns. Conversion is a bigger Teaser with superfiring B and doubly superfiring C turrets, no 5" guns but more 40mm]
Wilmington Class (1943) (10 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
720'x72'x25'
18,600 tons standard load, nominal
5x2 8"/55 RF guns in 5 2-gun turrets
32.75 kn, design
*CA-78 Wilmington
*CA-79 New Haven
**CA-80 Huntington
**CA-81 Birmingham
**CA-82 Biloxi
**CA-83 Topeka
**CA-84 Springfield
**CA-85 St. Paul
**CA-86 Duluth
**CA-87 Providence
The largest vessel that isn't a capital ship under construction for the navy, the Wilmington class takes the successful hull form of Savannah class, marries it to the preferred 8" of the Brooklyn class, and stitches it together with the mechanisms of the DP guns designed for the hybrids, and the result is an enormous ship that is larger than even the Mogami class with guns that fire over twice as rapidly, as well as increased armor to boot (finally armored against its own guns), especially on the deck of the vessel. Unlike the Vincennes, this ship retains an impressive amount of 5" secondaries as well.
The biggest issue with this vessel is cost, as size is beyond anything that the US has built, but gives more barrels than any previous vessel and, with the rate of fire, can put down range over twice times as many shells as previous vessels. This is combined with an improved ammunition type designed specifically for the new gun, in which the super heavy shells now have vastly improved performance individually. The hull form, and twin barrels, were chosen to maintain similarity with the Vincennes class and existing autoloading guns, again to streamline production.. The 8" gun is still working out some difficulties [it is not quite up to OTL Mk 16 levels] but unlike the 6" triple DP mount, the 8" RF mount is showing quite a bit of promise.
[Effectively Heavy OTL Brooklyn with rapid fire guns and OTL Cleveland 5" arrangement]
Preliminary Designs
CA-97 Class (12 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
Proposed Replacement for Pensacola/Chester/San Francisco classes; improved Wilmington
Include 4x3, 5x2, & 5x3 RF Arrangements, Improved Armor & Increased AA
[Effectively the Oregon City to the Wilmington's Baltimore, designs range from modest improvements, possible improvements to RF guns or switch to triples, with either retention of tonnage, slight modifications, or in the case of 5x3, massive expansion]
CL-109 Class (8 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
Proposed Replacement for Omaha classes; improved Vincennes
Include 5x2 & 5x3 DP Arrangements, Improved Field of Fire & Armor
[Effectively the Fargo to the Vincennes's Cleveland, designs share similarities to the above. Some credence is to sharing a hull with CA-97 and using either 6"/47 DP or 8"/55 RF if the triple Cheesebox has its issues worked out]
CLV-17 Class (8 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
Proposed Replacement for Syren/Teaser classes; purpose-built hybrid
Include 2x2, 3x3, 2x3, & 3x3 DP Arrangements, Improved Field of Fire and Aircraft Handling
30-36 aircraft proposed
[Effectively a super Syren class, with designs ranging from an enlargement, possible inclusion of triple DP guns, major lengthening of deck, addition of second elevator, and catapult location altered again. Displacement likely above 15k tons]
-
[Spent way too much time on this, but either way - just outlining general trends. Big change is the hybrid, which leads to the earlier angled decks and such. It alters the Brooklyn slightly (as mentioned, C superfiring over B & A) and spurs 6" DP growth instead of allowing it to sputter along without a potential platform as in OTL. The larger WNT allows for more cruisers anyway, which alters lineup, meaning more cruisers later on, as growth slowed right around the Depression OTL anyways. Later designs are hypothetical, but with DP coming into use years earlier (in a more limited form that isn't as efficient as later autoloaders) allows RF research to be moved forward (in more inefficient forms), though this means the 5"/54 is butterflied nearly entirely as we know it.]
[Though, I really hope we get to see some real naval battles with all of this. Maybe in an omake someday...]
All ship classes by date of order
*=under construction
**=scheduled for construction
^=under refit
v= reconstructed
>= proposed reconstruction
Pre-Treaty Designs
Omaha Class (1922) (10 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser (originally scout cruiser; last broadside cruiser built)
550'x 55'-4.5"x15'-1"
7114.6 tons standard load
2x2+8x1 6"/53 guns in 2 twin turrets & 8 casemates, 2x3 21" TT (actual armament varies per vessel)
34.92 kn, trial max
CL-4 Omaha
CL-5 Milwaukee
CL-6 Cincinnati
CL-7 Raleigh
CL-8 Detroit
CL-9 Richmond
CL-10 Concord
CL-11 Trenton
CL-12 Marblehead
CL-13 Memphis
The Omaha class, belated in construction as it was from the Big Navy Act of 1916, was obsolete when it was launched - a broadside cruiser in the world of turreted vessels, the Omaha was an exercise in catching up to the British, while attempting to outdo them in all regards. Originally carrying 12 6"/53 guns (8 gun broadside, 6 guns end on), 10 torpedo tubes, 224 mines and 2 catapults with aircraft, in addition to smaller munitions, the fast cruisers were overweight and poor seaboats that were the attempt of putting too much on a single hull.
In later refits, 4 torpedoes were landed from the gun deck amidship, and in many vessels, the aft lower casemates were removed due to excess water entering the ship (though not in all cases). A couple of vessels had a single 6"/53 on a deck mount placed amidship between the aft turret, though the majority of those with guns removed received none in its place. The mines were removed as well, all of these additions compensating for the growth in electronics and anti-air armament.
Due to their new construction for the time, various vessels had different turbines and gear arrangements, resulting in three effective subclasses with different performance values - the short ranged, slow cruising CL-4 & CL-6, the short ranged, fast cruising CL-7 and CL-8, and the long ranged, moderate cruising CL-5, CL-9, CL-10, CL-11, CL-12, and CL-13. This division lead to the vessels being split up in priorities. Omaha and Cincinnati tended to remain on convoy duty and low key duties. Raleigh and Detroit served either as the flagships of destroyer squadrons or as elements of the Scouting Force, while the remainder were shifted around on various independent and second line duties. However, they are still the fastest cruisers in the US fleet and more heavily armed than any other light cruiser from their era, so they have a place in the fleet even with all the new construction.
Treaty Designs
Pensacola Class (1930) (3 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser (originally light cruiser; designation altered due to LNT)
570'x65'-3"x18'-4"
9096.8 tons standard load
3x2+2x2 8"/55 guns in 2 twin & 2 triple mounts
32.78 kn, trial max
CA-24 Pensacola
CA-25 Salt Lake City
CA-26 Northampton
This class was chopped down by the WNT, losing 2 8" guns and sufficient armor protection and speed, though the vessel still was very heavily armored for its time, though it still didn't quite have the legs of the Lexington class and Omaha class. Was underweight when built, tantamount to engineers' efforts to save weight due to the treaty terms; ballast had to be added to the keel to bring performance in line. Two triple torpedo mounts were removed from the vessel early in its life due to water overflowing the bays
[Effectively OTL Pensacola Class]
Chester Class (1930) (5 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser (originally light cruiser; designation altered due to LNT)
582'x66'-7/8"x18'-11"
9390.4 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 triple mounts
32.76 kn, trial max
CA-27 Chester
CA-28 Louisville
CA-29 Chicago
CA-30 Houston
CA-31 Portland
A concurrent design with the Pensacola class, which featured a slightly beamier and heavier ship with a simpler main gun arrangement, sacrificing one gun for a shorter hull. The Chester otherwise is very similar, but with better performance throughout, with higher freeboard, especially in the latter three vessels, which received flag quarters as replacement for the then-flagship Tennessee-class cruisers (two of which, IX-39 Seattle and IX-41 Charlotte serve as receiving ships at this point in time).
[Effectively OTL Northampton Class]
Syren Class (1932) (4 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
637'x62.5'x19.4'
10,000 tons standard load, nominal
3x3 6"/47 guns in 3 triple turrets (later 3x2 6"/47 DP guns in 3 twin turrets)
24 aircraft
32.5 kn, design
>CLV-1 Syren
^CLV-2 Flirt
^CLV-3 Vixen
>CLV-4 Sylph
A design that arose from the London Naval Treaty and the US's desire for more decks, but also more cruisers, the Syren was unique for its time, incorporating a flight deck and corresponding aircraft to a heavy armament of 9 6"/47 guns, all firing forward (C superfiring over B), which was still a heavier armament than most other light cruisers at the time. Poorly armored, the vessels were nearly axed by the beginning of the Depression, but due to the glut of light cruisers available due to treaty terms, "wasting" tonnage was less of a concern than OTL. The construction of the Panzerschiffe sealed the deal, as the hybrids were the treaty cruisers best suited for combating the overarmed, underamored cruisers. The ship's design problems resulted in unique solutions, with an angled flight deck to add additional length for the takeoff run. Working well initially, this unit faced problems leading into the mid 1930s, resulting in a refit to add a catapult forward in exchange for aft 5"/25 guns being removed (which were unable to fire upon anything, as it stood, due to poor angles).
The unique design itself created a natural platform for a heavy caliber AA weapon, which itself leads to continued development of the 6"/47 DP for potential use on future platforms. By 1940, the weapon had proceeded along development enough that the decision was made to begin refits of this class (later classes needed less work, so were deferred) - bulges were added the remaining 5"/25 guns were landed, and twin 6"/47 guns were installed on the conical barbettes (these turrets were less effective than full-fledged variants used on later vessels, and had slightly lower rate of fire). Syren had not yet entered refit as of the torpedoing of Saratoga.
Naming scheme derives from their status as "timid" cruisers in Navy theoretical schemes, who openly flirt with combat and tease engagement, but never actually commit themselves fully at risk to themselves. The original Syren herself was one of two ships responsible for burning the captured Philadelphia during the Barbary, with her crew assisting the Intrepid's in the act.
[Effectively OTL Cruiser no. 39 upon laying down.]
San Francisco Class (1934) (4 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
578'x61.75'x21'-8"
10,050 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 triple turrets
32.36 kn, trial max
CA-32 San Francisco
CA-34 Tuscaloosa
CA-35 Indianapolis
CA-36 Wichita
The break imposed by the beginning of the Depression slowed cruiser construction, allowing further refinement of the original heavy cruiser design. The vessel was altered to increase armor protection throughout, taking better advantage of available tonnage than previous heavy cruisers in the US Navy, while also incorporating full-fledged turrets vs the mounts of previous generations. These vessels had no particular issue either in performance or firepower, fulfilling duties where previous ships had not; however, low speed and short range, combined with inadequacy against larger foreign vessels, hampered them.
[Effectively OTL New Orleans Class]
Boise Class (1935) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
610'x60'-7.5"x22'-10.75"
10,682 tons standard load
5x3 6"/47 guns in 5 triple turrets
33.7 kn, trial max
CL-33 Boise
CL-37 New Orleans
CL-38 Minneapolis
CL-39 Quincy
These vessels were the first purpose-built light cruisers of the US Navy in 12 years, and took a lot of experience from the Syren class. Larger than the Omaha, the Boise class possesses 15 guns (originally designed as such when, according to initial rumors, the Mogami class would be equipped with the same) in the similar conical barbettes as the Syren class. The ship is one of the first of a series of mostly standardized designs for the next few years, with general dimensions barely changing.
The ships were designed primarily to serve as screening elements for the fleet against enemy destroyers, and to act on long-range patrol when necessary. The ships tended to err a little heavy, close to being slightly overweight, compared to other vessels - the mistakes of the Omaha were not repeated.
[Effectively OTL Brooklyn Class, expect C turret superfires over B instead of vice versa, and A, B, and C turrets face forward]
Teaser Class (1935) (4 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
637'x64.5'x20.4'
10,970 tons standard load, nominal
3x3 6"/47 guns in 3 triple turrets (later 3x2 6"/47 DP guns in 3 twin turrets)
24 aircraft
32.5 kn, design
>CLV-5 Teaser
>CLV-6 Lorelei
>CLV-7 Harpy
>CLV-8 Mystic
Improved versions of the preceding Syren class, the Teaser class included various modifications to make life easier. Slightly altered gun arrangements forward, with the B turret being lowered to also lower the C turret slightly, was coupled with the removal of the 5"/25 for the addition of 2x2 5"/38 guns forward and aft of the island. The deck angle was slightly increased to lengthen the deck further, and a larger catapult section forward of the elevator to launch the heavier monoplanes of the mid 1930s.
The vessel could never carry a full load of its aircraft at peacetime, as the Teaser class was the largest cruiser of the prewar navy - as such, care was taken to not violate the letter of the treaty terms, though some lines were skirted tightly. Due to this limitation, captains were encouraged to try and increase aircraft recovery and launch speed in order to cycle the limited load into and out of combat. To this end, an enterprising crew on the Harpy realized that, thanks to the angled deck and launch catapults (launching to the starboard side, as a forward launch would risking striking the turrets on a misfire of the hydraulic catapult), along with the midship elevator, aircraft could be launched and recovered simultaneously - leading to further design study and eventual incorporation of the feature on full fledged carriers on a trial basis.
The Teaser class is expected to receive similar refits to the Syren class after the prior class is completely refit.
[ATL Cruiser no. 39, slightly enlarged with minor differences]
Philadelphia Class (1937) (5 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
610’x61’-10.33”x22’-6”
10,238 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 triple turrets
33.75 knots, design
CA-40 Philadelphia
CA-41 Vicennes
CA-42 Nashville
CA-45 Amsterdam
CA-46 Tallahassee
Following along the example of the Boise class, these vessels are effectively a heavy cruiser variant of a mostly similar hull. Done in an attempt to save costs on hull design, along with normalizing performance throughout the fleet, the ships had some initial issues, being topheavy like so many other American cruisers, resulting in ballast being required. The vessels, with a successful hull form and decent armor, were a lower cost counterweight to Japanese construction that was ongoing (though individually inferior in terms of tonnage). The issues were corrected in subsequent classes.
[Effectively worse Wichita with 8x1 5"/25 secondaries]
Savannah Class (1938) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
610'x60'-7.5"x22'-10.5"
10,682 tons standard load
5x3 6"/47 guns in 5 triple turrets
33.04 kn, trial max
CL-43 Savannah
CL-44 Helena
CL-49 Phoenix
CL-50 Helena
A follow on to the prior class of light cruisers, the Savannah were modestly improved in armor protection, antiair gunnery, and overall performance, lacking some of the weight issues other similar vessels had. Most notably is the addition of 4x2 5"/38 guns for AA defense, far improved over the 5"/25, and possessing better fields of fire. Other internal changes were made to machinery, but otherwise the vessels were similar to their predecessors.
[Effectively OTL St Louis Class]
Brooklyn Class (1938) (4 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
610'x61'-9.75"x22'-7.75"
10,565 tons standard load
3x3 8"/55 guns in 3 three-gun turrets
33.6 kn, design
CA-47 Brooklyn
CA-48 St. Louis
CA-51 Buffalo
CA-52 Dayton
Akin to the Savannah, these vessels differed little in overall appearance. Improved AA, machinery, and superstructure along with the hull minimized the need to trim the vessels. These were the last ships approved under the 1929 Cruiser Act, finally filling out the allotted 19 Heavy Cruisers and 26 total Light Cruisers afforded by the treaty.
[Effectively improved Wichita class]
The Follies
Atlanta Class (1939) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser (later Light Cruiser, Anti-air)
530'x52'-10"x19'-3.75"
6,593 tons standard load
8x2 5"/38 guns in 8 twin turrets, 2x4 21" TT
33.67 kn, trial max
CL-53 Atlanta
CL-54 Juneau
CL-55 Flint
CL-56 Reno
The first in a series of new designs, these light cruisers borrowed heavy from destroyer design philosophy to construct vessels to act as super-destroyer-leaders, similar to the Omaha class cruisers (of which they were still slower). Possessing over triple the armament of every destroyer in service, these vessels easily fit as leaders of those fleets. An additional 8 were proposed [compared to 4 OTL] to flesh out the vessels as replacement for the aforementioned class. However, their thin armor and topheavy nature limited their performance, especially in rough seas.
[Effectively OTL Atlanta Class]
Rochester Class (1939) (4 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser (later Light Cruiser, Anti-air)
555'x55'x20'
6,783 tons standard load, nominal
2x2+2x1 8"/55 guns in 2 twin and 2 single turrets, 4x4 21" TT (later 10x2 5"/38, 2x4 21" TT)
34 kn, design
^CA-57 Rochester
vCA-58 Spokane
vCA-59 Gary
vCA-60 Kansas City
Instead of repeat Atlanta, a daring proposal was made to construct cruisers of much lighter displacement with 6" and 8" guns in order to cut costs and to increase number of vessels - Japanese and British building programs worried the neutral US, and rapprochement between the nations did plenty to ruffle the feathers of the US brass. This was echoed in the halls of Congress, where the funding for these vessels were proposed to herald in a new era in design. It also was specifically designed to have the same hull to be used for either of the 6" or 8" classes in order to reduce costs still (the 5" class was further ahead in the design stage and proceeded ahead of the other two classes).
However, the design was overambitious and failed drastically, as the vessels could not effectively perform their assigned function - the 8" guns were cramped and could barely put up an appropriate volume of fire, and even the older Japanese vessels of similar number of guns. Conditions were poor and cramped, and reports from the first vessel completed were unsatisfactory. Construction was immediately paused and, unable to rectify the issues, the vessels were instead converted into larger versions of the Atlanta, where they have served much better in the same function. Kansas City has the ignominious distinction of being rebuilt while still on the ways, never having even launched.
[ATL Design, similar to following, but with 8" guns replacing 6" guns]
Tucson Class (1939) (4 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser (later Light Cruiser, Anti-air)
555'x55'x20'
6,783 tons standard load, nominal
4x2 6"/47 guns in 4 twin turrets, 4x4 21" TT (later 6x2+4x1 5"/38, 4x4 21" TT)
34 kn, design
vCL-61 Tucson
^CL-62 Fresno
vCL-63 Wilkes-Barre
vCL-64 Macon
Similar to the Rochester, these vessels had similar issues. The 6" guns, while able to fire without the difficulties of the 8", were still unsatisfacotry, especially after it was determined that RF or DP 6" guns could not be fitted on such a small vessel without further modification of the hull, which defeated the point of the project in the first place. Furthermore, these vessels were found to be even more topheavy than the 8" gun cruisers due to additional turrets, and were found to be unsatisfactory. All units, including Macon (still on the ways as well), were converted into similar vessels to the Atlanta.
[Similar to Design 507, The Cruiser-Destroyer, but enlarged, sans aircraft, with Gridley torpedo layout]
War Designs
Vincennes Class (1941) (18 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
664'x67.5'x22'
13,600 tons standard load, nominal
5x2 6"/47 DP guns in 5 two-gun turrets
32.75 kn, design
CL-65 Vincennes
*CL-66 Montpelier
*CL-67 Baltimore
*CL-68 Pittsburgh
*CL-69 Denver
*CL-70 Columbia
*CL-71 Pasadena
*CL-72 Columbus
**CL-73 Santa Fe
**CL-88 Boston
**CL-89 Vicksburg
**CL-90 Fargo
**CL-91 Newark
**CL-92 Albany
**CL-93 San Diego
**CL-94 Little Rock
**CL-95 Vallejo
**CL-96 Cheyenne
One of two light cruiser classes ordered in the Two-Ocean Navy Act after the fall of France, the Vincennes class was one of two simultaneous designs put into production, and the first vessel from the ground up to use the full-scale 6"/47 DP gun in its original barbette design, allowing it to reach the full capabilities of rate of fire [not as good as OTL 6"/47 DP Mk 16, but comparable]. Armor coverage was also increased; positions on previous vessels used for the secondary guns was replaced by mounts for 40mm mounts.
The hull itself was similar, if improved, in comparison to the previous ships in the line, making redesign fairly simple, although the complexity of the 5 turrets did lead to some concerns (there were, however, a few alternate designs that would have added up to 8 turrets in order to match the number of barrels).
One concern was the lack of any intermediate secondary gun for point defense - the 40mm did not have the range to effectively engage light craft, and adding any large gun would be ineffective for the purposes at hand. Various projects were started to find an intermediate caliber secondary gun that could handle the heavy AA needs of the 40mm while also being effective at penetrating surface targets. Various designs from 3" to 4" are being studied as potential replacements for ships under construction.
[Effectively a Super OTL Brooklyn with DP main guns]
Cleveland Class (1942) (8 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
664'x72'x22'
14,200 tons standard load, nominal
4x3 6"/47 DP guns in 4 three-gun turrets
32.5 kn, design
CANCELLED AND REORDERED
Iris Class (1942) (8 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
664'x72'x22'
14,618 tons standard load, nominal
3x2 6"/47 DP guns in 5 twin turrets
28 aircraft
32.5 kn, design
*CLV-9 Iris (ex-Cleveland)
*CLV-10 Nymph (ex-Manchester)
*CLV-11 Temptress (ex-Astoria)
*CLV-12 Undine (ex-Miami)
*CLV-13 Medusa (ex-Portsmouth)
**CLV-14 Dryad (ex-Oakland)
**CLV-15 Succubus (ex-San Juan)
**CLV-16 Faerie (ex-Youngstown)
The Cleveland, originally, was an ambitious project to incorporate a 6"/47 DP gun into a triple mount in an effort to get more guns on a ship of similar size - eager to see the project through, the mount was pursued with enthusiasm. However, early results were disappointing, and even after much work, rate of fire was dismal - at best, the "Cheesebox" triple mount (noted for its shape) was barely superior to the twin gun in putting lead down range, making the twin mount a much more economical choice.
This, combined with the sudden urgency of the war and the effectiveness of Syren in dealing with the U-Boat that menaced Saratoga lead to the ships being cancelled and reordered as hybrids. Redesigned, with three twin turrets forward and superfiring over each other (using the same size magazine for 6 guns, so no change needed below the barbettes), this larger hybrid can effectively use even some of the larger aircraft in Navy stores, though it still prefers the Airabonita and Airavilloso fighters and are planned to retain them. Improved deck length, catapult construction, and intermediate AA guns make the ship far more complete than the earlier limited hybrids, though it still doesn't tick every box for a purpose built ship.
[Effectively a Cleveland Class cruiser with DP guns and no 5" guns. Conversion is a bigger Teaser with superfiring B and doubly superfiring C turrets, no 5" guns but more 40mm]
Wilmington Class (1943) (10 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
720'x72'x25'
18,600 tons standard load, nominal
5x2 8"/55 RF guns in 5 2-gun turrets
32.75 kn, design
*CA-78 Wilmington
*CA-79 New Haven
**CA-80 Huntington
**CA-81 Birmingham
**CA-82 Biloxi
**CA-83 Topeka
**CA-84 Springfield
**CA-85 St. Paul
**CA-86 Duluth
**CA-87 Providence
The largest vessel that isn't a capital ship under construction for the navy, the Wilmington class takes the successful hull form of Savannah class, marries it to the preferred 8" of the Brooklyn class, and stitches it together with the mechanisms of the DP guns designed for the hybrids, and the result is an enormous ship that is larger than even the Mogami class with guns that fire over twice as rapidly, as well as increased armor to boot (finally armored against its own guns), especially on the deck of the vessel. Unlike the Vincennes, this ship retains an impressive amount of 5" secondaries as well.
The biggest issue with this vessel is cost, as size is beyond anything that the US has built, but gives more barrels than any previous vessel and, with the rate of fire, can put down range over twice times as many shells as previous vessels. This is combined with an improved ammunition type designed specifically for the new gun, in which the super heavy shells now have vastly improved performance individually. The hull form, and twin barrels, were chosen to maintain similarity with the Vincennes class and existing autoloading guns, again to streamline production.. The 8" gun is still working out some difficulties [it is not quite up to OTL Mk 16 levels] but unlike the 6" triple DP mount, the 8" RF mount is showing quite a bit of promise.
[Effectively Heavy OTL Brooklyn with rapid fire guns and OTL Cleveland 5" arrangement]
Preliminary Designs
CA-97 Class (12 Vessels)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
Proposed Replacement for Pensacola/Chester/San Francisco classes; improved Wilmington
Include 4x3, 5x2, & 5x3 RF Arrangements, Improved Armor & Increased AA
[Effectively the Oregon City to the Wilmington's Baltimore, designs range from modest improvements, possible improvements to RF guns or switch to triples, with either retention of tonnage, slight modifications, or in the case of 5x3, massive expansion]
CL-109 Class (8 Vessels)
Type: Light Cruiser
Proposed Replacement for Omaha classes; improved Vincennes
Include 5x2 & 5x3 DP Arrangements, Improved Field of Fire & Armor
[Effectively the Fargo to the Vincennes's Cleveland, designs share similarities to the above. Some credence is to sharing a hull with CA-97 and using either 6"/47 DP or 8"/55 RF if the triple Cheesebox has its issues worked out]
CLV-17 Class (8 Vessels)
Type: Hybrid Cruiser, Light
Proposed Replacement for Syren/Teaser classes; purpose-built hybrid
Include 2x2, 3x3, 2x3, & 3x3 DP Arrangements, Improved Field of Fire and Aircraft Handling
30-36 aircraft proposed
[Effectively a super Syren class, with designs ranging from an enlargement, possible inclusion of triple DP guns, major lengthening of deck, addition of second elevator, and catapult location altered again. Displacement likely above 15k tons]
-
[Spent way too much time on this, but either way - just outlining general trends. Big change is the hybrid, which leads to the earlier angled decks and such. It alters the Brooklyn slightly (as mentioned, C superfiring over B & A) and spurs 6" DP growth instead of allowing it to sputter along without a potential platform as in OTL. The larger WNT allows for more cruisers anyway, which alters lineup, meaning more cruisers later on, as growth slowed right around the Depression OTL anyways. Later designs are hypothetical, but with DP coming into use years earlier (in a more limited form that isn't as efficient as later autoloaders) allows RF research to be moved forward (in more inefficient forms), though this means the 5"/54 is butterflied nearly entirely as we know it.]
[Though, I really hope we get to see some real naval battles with all of this. Maybe in an omake someday...]
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TTL, the Alaskas have been ordered as small battleships rather than big cruisers- twin rudders, a full torpedo defence system, and a battleship layout.
As for Alaska itself, the war hasn't made itself known there.
As for Alaska itself, the war hasn't made itself known there.
...why would Japan do that? There's no official alliance, but the Anglo-Japanese Alliance has apparently been revived as an informal matter ITTL, and both nations are very friendly with each other.
I'm not too sure about the POD, but I'm guessing it involves some changes in how the Washington Naval Conference went, and Japan somehow getting to keep the Qingdao Leased Territory. The Mukden Bridge Incident still happened since Manchukuo's still around, but apparently the civilian government's retained enough credibility plus the Emperor having enough real authority to crackdown on extremist officers afterwards, and to keep the military a disciplined force instead of a ravening horde that goes around looting and killing indiscriminately. And somehow Manchukuo's managed to become prosperous enough even without official recognition from the rest of the world that the Japanese don't have to resort to slave labor and actually entering the drug trade to make up the deficit.
Good observations! The POD is 1922, with a different Washington Naval Treaty, and Japan being able to keep Tsingtao. To run it down quickly:
-The more expansive WNT allowed for a more influential Imperial Japanese Navy
-There was a rightward, militaristic shift in Japan in the early 1930s. The Mukden Incident occurred, and Japan was roundly criticized for their seizure of Manchukuo.
-A ultra right wing coup and attempted assasination of Prime Minister Inukai Tsuyoshi was foiled, and a democracy, albeit fragile, persisted.
-Emperor Hirohito repudiated the coup plotters and their aims. To ensure loyalty to the Emperor's wishes, the top echelons of the IJA began to be filled largely with Imperial Princes and other members of the Japanese peerage.
-A British diplomatic mission in 1934 began the process towards rapprochement between Britain and Japan. Japan remains a member of the League of Nations, and accepts censure for the Mukden Incident. By 1937, through increased trade and wariness of stronger Sino-German cooperation, Japan and Britain are de facto allies. The Commonwealth is relieved, and the United States is cautious, but still willing to trade with a more restrained Japan.
-Japanese hardliners are persuaded to bide their time to create the Co-Prosperity Sphere; moderates look to create it via soft power rather than conquest.
-Effective governance of Manchukuo is undertaken in order to persuade the rest of the world to recognize it. Its economy is based primarily on heavy industry and resource extraction, in addition to being a tax haven and flag of convenience. Drug trafficking is punished harshly. Economic migration from China and an influx of Japanese colonists obviate the need for indentured labour. Puyi abdicates the throne in 1941; his brother Pujie is appointed Prince Regent and is a much more effective monarch and finally a figure that inspires a degree of national unity outside the Manchu population. Jews and White Movement Russians are significant minorities; they are given protections to ensure that they remain and encourage further migration.
- Japan's image and national honour are considered extremely important in how she wants to portray herself to her new allies- the image of the Imperial Japanese soldier as a modern-day Samurai is the goal. In addition to the appointment of nobility in key positions, extremely strict conduct orders, issued by the Emperor himself, make general officers personally responsibile for any atrocities committed by their subordinates. As such, the generals issue even stricter orders to their subordinates and rigidly enforce them- in many cases, the kempeitai acts as a vice squad, to ensure that only blood and Yamato Spirit course through soldiers' veins.
That won't be necessary, as this TL features an Allied Japan. Japan and Canada have considerable trade as well; cash and rare earth metals for Canadian nickel and aluminum. Rubber and other materials are also routed on convoys from Japan
- Status