The Kennedy Curse: WI JFK Jr had lived?
- Thread starter dcharles
- Start date
dcharles
Banned
Thanks for the kind words. It's definitely back for the time being.
I had to revisit Miami for a little bit. There was still a little more to set up there, for both the election and the remaining months of the Clinton presidency.
Stay tuned.
YEEEEHAH....it had been a long while but it came back, thanks for bringing an update BTW @dcharleos .
dcharles
Banned
Judging from the likes, it looks like a couple new folks found the TL after yesterday's update, which (of course) always makes me happy.
For anyone who's just getting exposed to The Kennedy Curse, what are your impressions/criticisms/predications so far? Things you love, things you hate, things you want to see more of.
And obviously, if any of the longtime readers want to get anything off their chests, feel free.
For anyone who's just getting exposed to The Kennedy Curse, what are your impressions/criticisms/predications so far? Things you love, things you hate, things you want to see more of.
And obviously, if any of the longtime readers want to get anything off their chests, feel free.
I know that you know my feeling about your great timeline from the numerous, and sometimes annoying, messages I sent to you. But, I still want to tell them anyways.
I really love your timeline. It is just a good story. It is engaging and it is fresh and very original, as you did many people did: not make JFK Jr a politician and make the Trump 2000 Campaign actually successful.
I actually knew about Roger Stone thanks to you, and I am thankful for knowing such a... original guy.
(Also, could Jeb Bush's "giving space and love to rioters" moment considered as a more bloody and more violent "Please Clap" moment?)
You have a real talent for writing dialogue. Whether it's speeches, interviews, or banter it feels quite genuine.
This TL is excellent generally. I am curious though - how long do you envision it being?
By the way, I realized the reference in the chapter:
en.wikipedia.org
Act of Love (politics) - Wikipedia
dcharles
Banned
Thanks. At the moment, 2008 seems about right. Two caveats: there'll be some time jumps, and that date's not set in stone.
My process can be kind of chaotic. Not that there isn't a plan, it's just me working through the butterflies.
The way this started in my mind was as an unrelated question: how bad might Abu Ghraib have been if a print news magazine had broken the story and not CBS? CBS is a reputable organization, and they do fine reporting. Nonetheless, in those days, all the Big Three TV news media were very deferential to official sources. Still are, but it was worse then. Not great for a story about felonious government misconduct. Furthermore, a complex story like Abu Ghraib needs longform reporting. There's almost nothing that CBS brought to the table that they wouldn't have done anyway as part of the story's secondary coverage.
Then the idea popped into my head that there was something quite poetic about the idea of George being the one to break the story in an ATL. The son of a president takes down the son of a president. And so, as I started playing around with it, finding out the circumstances around JFK jr's death, and the way things in his life and in the magazine were going (not great!), I looked at one of those timelines of news events in a year that they have. I noticed that Trump had announced that he was forming an exploratory committee just a couple months after the crash had happened. And I said hey...
If he was just doing that for attention, he would have to try a lot harder to get attention in that media environment. We know from real life that if that man really puts his mind to it, he will be successful in getting attention, if nothing else. And then things kind of evolved from there.
But for example, I had already started writing it (not sure if I had posted it yet), when I discovered that JFK jr had an interview with Castro already scheduled when he died. Right away, I realized that in an ATL where Jr had lived through the crash, that would be a huge story in and of itself. Later, I realized that the Castro interview would have coincided with the middle of the Elian thing. It would have been incendiary. It's a lit match to can of gasoline.
That in turn is going to affect the next major divergence from OTL. I'm not going to spoil it--it's probably about two chapters out--but this major divergence, this huge thing that's going to change the lives of people all over the world? Well, it occurred to me about two weeks ago.
TLDR; I'm a jackass, lol.
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I am now even more excited about your timeline. I hope it is something that will benefit the Reform Party, as I have a bit of a soft spot for them.
(And, yes, I even want a Trump Presidency in 2000, even though I mainly want it to make Reform Party bigger and to watch all the members of the cabinet trying to compete with each other)
(And, also, I hope you won't be angry with me if I make my own research in my free time to guess what event could be the major divergence)
After a few minutes of research that made me feel like this man, I found the answer:
2000 Republican National Convention. All the numbers add up. Every chapter generally encompasses one month, and two chapters mean two months. And, the only event interesting in the whole month is the conventions. Al Gore will be the candidate of Democrats as everyone supported him except Bill Bradley so the best potential for conflict is the Republican National Convention.
I hope I did not annoy anyone with my guess.
I hope I did not annoy anyone with my guess.
dcharles
Banned
Thank you. That's definitely a goal of mine. I don't think that the Great Man Theory is valid, but I do think that personality plays an enormous role in the way events play out. This is a way to explore that in my own little way.
Huh, I do not think that particular scandal would happen ITTL. That being said, is George would still be American centric in the future, or perhaps the magazine would touch on topic/personalities outside of America? (Perhaps a moot question since it is probably more likely that George open a small permanent bureau in Phoenix for issues concerning the west of USA before that could happen)
As a non-American, I find that this TL gives a really interesting look at the backrooms and dirty tactics of American politics which is fascinating. I am also not familiar with many of the people this TL focuses on (I didn't even know there was a JFK Jr!) and I am really interested in how the now incredibly famous son will influence politics and the democrat party in the future.
Part 9: Kum-bay-unity!
dcharles
Banned
May 5th, 2000
Roger Stone hated being on hold. He rarely allowed it; being on hold meant that he was making time for someone who wasn’t making time for him, like some kind of schmuck.
He wasn’t a schmuck.
And worse than being on hold? Being on hold when the wrinkled old hardass on the other end of the line was doing it to ice him out. To get in his head. And it was deliberate–it was. It had to be. They had an appointment.
Concentrate on other things, he told himself. This conversation could not go poorly. It would do him no good to begin it in a snarl. Concentrate on the view.
And the view was something special. Of all Trump’s properties in New York, the high rise at Central Park South was Roger’s favorite. Situated in the center of Manhattan, it faced north, towards the park, so that men like Roger Stone could take in both sunrise and sunset while they contemplated the Upper Manhattan skyline, a swathe of living, breathing, green in the foreground. Even if there were still a few rent-controlled tenants in the building, just being here, he felt like a Master of the Universe.
And wasn’t he?
When all the campaign dust settled, he would have to talk to Trump about getting a unit here. He’d be able to afford it, after all. He heard a small clicking sound in the telephone’s earpiece. As long as this conversation doesn’t go south.
“Well! It’s about time, isn’t it?” said the voice on the other end of the line.
Finally.
Stone couldn’t get a read on whether the tone was hostile or exuberant, but it didn’t really matter. “Mr. Perot,” he said, forcing himself to smile, trying to keep it warm. People can hear a smile in your voice. “I couldn’t agree more.”
“This isn’t Trump!” said Ross Perot as if he was surprised.
He wasn’t, Roger knew. Despite the fact that this was supposed to be Perot’s direct line, two different people had vetted him before he’d heard Perot’s ridiculous banjo voice twanging through the receiver. “Mr. Trump’s going to be reaching out to you shortly. We wanted to iron a few things out first.”
“Here it comes!” said Perot.
“Well–”
“Oh, no you don’t! Now I’ll tell you what, Mr. Stone. If you think you’re gonna come up here and get on this phone with me, sideline me out of my own party, you’re about as lost as a blind Jew at a Klan convention!”
“Nobody’s trying to sideline you, nobody wants to sideline you–” At least not yet.
“Do you think I just strolled into this office from the cotton fields? That Jesse Ventura already came out and said it. Said I needed to ‘step over to the sidelines!’ His words, not mine!”
“His words. Not ours.”
“Bah-loney! Y’all and that Ventura are thick as thieves.”
“Mr. Perot, Jesse Ventura is a free agent. He can say what he wants. He’s also the highest ranking member of this party. We’re not going to turn down his endorsement. It–”
“Damn right we’re not!” came a high, raspy voice the next room over. Donald Trump, who had laid down for a nap before tonight’s fundraiser, was apparently awake.
“It would be counterproductive for what we’re trying to accomplish,” Stone said as he shot Trump a look. Not now, he mouthed to Trump.
“Well?” Perot barked.
“Well what?” asked Stone.
“Goodness gracious almighty! Am I the only one in this conversation who’s giving it an ounce of attention? You said it, man, not me! What are you trying to accomplish?”
The geniality slipped away. “We’re trying to win an election, Ross,” said Stone as if he was explaining something to someone else's loathsome child.
“Oh, is that right?” said Perot, his tone making it clear that he sensed the mockery. “He’s not just doing it so he can sell hotel rooms, get attention, and chase women?”
You say it like it’s a bad thing, Stone wanted to say. “If we’re going to win the election, we need a united, functioning party,” is what he said instead.
“And what is it you think I’m doing? You think I’m trying to burn it down? Between that Ventura, your carnival barker, and that brownshirt Pat Buchanan, I’m spending twenty-six hours a day putting the fires out!”
“Ross, who do you think made Buchanan piss off? Answer me that.”
“I don’t recall being on a first name basis with you, Stone.” The words were cold, but Perot’s tone had softened. “You did that? Is that what you’re telling me?”
“Me and Pat–we are on a first name basis–we go way back, and I know about all the dead bodies he’s got buried in his crawl space. He decided it was best if the bodies stayed buried. I helped him decide.”
“We shut him down,” cracked Trump from the next room, preening in front of a bedroom vanity. “Total domination.”
Will you shut the fuck up? Roger mouthed to Trump. He was finally starting to get somewhere with Perot, and now this. Trump smirked back at him in the reflection.
“That’s no kind of way to win,” said Perot. If he’d heard Trump’s braying, he gave no indication.
Thank God for age-related hearing loss. “I did us all a favor. The man’s a virus.”
“Alright, Stone. You’ve got my attention, but what do you want? Huh? All this talk about holding hands and kum-bay-unity is one thing. Finding out where the bargaining zone is, that’s the real trick.”
On impulse, Stone decided to start where he thought he would meet the most resistance. “First thing's Choate. Choate’s gotta go.”
“If you think I’m bringing back that thieving Jack Gargan–”
“Gargan’s a clown.”
Pat Choate was the doughy, red-faced economist who had been Perot’s running mate in ‘96. Soporific even when judged against the narcoleptic standards of his profession, Choate had less charisma than a lumpy pile of wet burlap. For reasons inexplicable to Roger, he’d been the one chosen to chair the party when the Perot loyalists ousted Gargan–Ventura’s handpicked guy–a couple months back.
“Then who? One of your people?”
“No, not one of ours, but he’ll be perfect. You know him--Dick Lamm.”
“Lamb dick!” Trump cackled.
Every fucking time. Roger tried to ignore him.
“Dick Lamm? The same Dick Lamm who refused to endorse me at the convention in '96? You got some cajones, Stone."
Dick Lamm was the former governor of Colorado, and before Perot got in the race, the seeming frontrunner for the Reform Party nomination in 1996. He had never forgiven Perot for stealing his thunder, and bringing him in for party chair would go a ways toward patching some of the cracks in the party’s fragile coalition.
“Look, he knows how to raise money, he’s got connections, and he already knows how to do media--none of which Choate can do--that’s what you need in a party chair. That's the job. And you owe the guy anyway.”
“And what else?” said Perot.
“We want to take the convention out of Long Beach.”
“What’s wrong with Long Beach?”
“It’s a dump,” said Roger.
“A shithole!” echoed Trump.
“What is all that racket about!?” said Perot.
For all the good it would do, Stone shot Trump another look. “Look, the point of a convention is to get attention. To get the media there. The Dems are in LA, the Republicans are in Philadelphia. That’s what we’re competing against. What reporter in his right mind is going to try and go to Long Beach instead of Philly or Hollywood? That’s cheesesteaks and movie stars versus container ships and urban blight. It’s not a choice, it’s a punishment! I don’t want the media feeling like they’ve been punished because they had to cover our convention!”
“So where are you planning on having this fly-by-night convention?”
“Miami. It’s got sex appeal and I can get us a space.”
“Miami!?! Will they have the fires out by then? Mi-ami, my foot!”
Stone heard something that sounded like a tiny old man’s fist pounding a desk. “What’d I just say about attention?” Stone was on the verge of pleading. “The media’s going to be all over it! They’ll love it. ”
“Miami…” said Perot. It was as if Stone had just suggested that the convention be held in Malawi, and not a beloved American city. “First you go after Pat, now it’s Miami. Anything else while we’re at it? You wanna borrow a pair of BVDs while you’re fleecing me?”
Roger swallowed away a nervous laugh. “You hang onto them for now. But we are going to need your endorsement.”
“Oh, I see now. First you get the endorsement, then you sideline me.”
“Oh, no. We want you on the campaign trail. At least four or five big joint appearances.”
“So I give you everything, up to and including the shirt off my scrawny old back, and in exchange you let me get on my hind legs and make a speech or two? That about it? Well Stone, answer me this–how about I just take a pass on all of it, climb into this race, and snatch that nomination right from your teeth? Huh? How about that? You think I can’t?”
Roger had known that threat was lurking around the corner for as long as he’d known about this conversation. He’d thought long and hard about what he would say.
“Of course you can do it. Of course you can. You've already shown the country what you can do. Twice. But you don’t want to be president, Mr. Perot. You want to build a legacy. If you had wanted to be president, you wouldn’t have dropped out when you were leading the race eight years ago. If you didn’t care about the legacy, you wouldn’t have gotten in four years ago when the FEC ruled against the Reform Party and said that only you could get matching funds. Gallup just showed us a measly five points behind Bush and Gore. If you want to cement your legacy, this is your chance.”
It was all true, even if he had left out the part where the same poll put them eight points behind McCain. Save for Perot’s breathing, the line went quiet.
Trump came into Stone’s field of vision and pointed at his Rolex.
Perot let out a pointed sigh. “I’ve got conditions of my own.”
“Let’s hear them,” said Stone.
“First, I want you to keep that hippie gorilla Jesse Ventura away from me. Period. I don’t want to see his melon head and I don’t want to hear his stupid voice. I’m not endorsing him, I’m not doing events with him, I’m not posing for pictures with him, and I'm not sending him any Christmas cards. Second, if I was to give you my endorsement, that don’t mean you’ve always got it. If Trump doesn’t stay on the straight and narrow–boy, lemme tell you–I’ll jerk that endorsement away so fast it’ll make that ugly yellow rug fly off his head, and then you really will be in a pickle.”
“Done. What else?”
“You sure you don’t want to give it a little thought, make sure you can uphold your end of the bargain?” Perot sounded like a man who was expecting disappointment and looking forward to the inevitable time when he could retaliate and exact vengeance.
Still, it wasn't like Roger could walk away from the deal now. “We’re good, Mr. Perot. We mind our Ps and Qs, keep you away from Ventura.”
“Ah, well. A word to the wise, Stone. I’ve had my people look into you, and I’ll tell you what, I’ve got a big fat file on my desk and I don’t like what I see. Says here, uh, “notorious libertine and backstabber,’ is what it says right here. Those go hand in hand though, don’t they? A fellow can’t be a slave to indulgence without it degenerating into treachery before too long. But this is your last shot. You’re washed up, partner. They already run you out of the Republican Party! Mark my words, you double-cross me, you let me down, the next race you work on’s going to be Kris Kringle’s campaign for mayor of the North Pole! I hope we understand each other, because H. Ross Perot is not a man you want to have for an enemy.”
“Whatever you may have heard about my personal life, I can assure you Ro–I mean, can I call you Ross now?–”
“You may not,” said Perot.
The line was dead before Roger Stone could finish the thought. Momentarily stunned, he sputtered before he could stop himself.
“What the hell was that?” asked Trump.
“Nothing,” he said, shaking it off. “It’s fine. We’re good. He said he’s gonna do it.”
“I knew the little hillbilly would fall into line,” said Trump as they headed to the limousine and–eventually–donors who awaited them. “They all want what Trump’s got.”
At first, Stone had wondered why Perot would agree to work with him if Perot really did believe he was such a washed-up degenerate. But Roger knew the truth better than anyone. Perot was right. This was his last shot, and he was lucky to get even that.
A dread certainty came over him, that these would be neither last nor least of Ross Perot’s demands.
“Hey, make a pit stop at the Garden on the way,” Trump said to the driver before turning back to Roger. “I want to shake hands with the Policeman’s Benevolent guy. They’re picketing some cop killer.”
“Sure,” said Roger. “I’m going to hang back while you do. I need to put in a call to Rick.”
Because if Rick Davis didn’t hold up his end of the deal, Roger Stone was going to be screwed no matter what.
Alan Keyes smirks as Governor Bush calls John McCain "every Democrat's favorite Republican."
Russert: Joining us today is Karl Rove, Governor Bush’s longtime strategist and campaign manager. Karl, this is the first time we’ve had you in the studio–as opposed to talking to you from out there on the campaign trail–in quite a while. It’s good to have you back, and first of all, let me say congratulations to the campaign–
Rove: Thank you, Tim. Always good to be here.
Russert: Now, you are fresh off a streak of victories over Senator McCain, most notably a hard-fought win in Indiana on May 2nd, but also in North Carolina, along with Nebraska and West Virginia the following week. There were some calls earlier in the month, after the loss in Pennsylvania, for Governor Bush to drop out. It is safe to say the the momentum has shifted to your campaign, but a lot of analysts are wondering where it all leads–
Rove: It leads to the nomination, Tim.
Russert: [chuckles] Fair enough. But the way the math stacks up on this one–and with the wins in Nebraska and West Virginia, it looks like Governor Bush has pulled ahead in the delegate count for the first time since Super Tuesday–
Rove: I’ve got to correct that–
Russert: First–
Rove: No, no, that’s only true if you’re putting the California delegates in McCain’s column. Governor Bush won those delegates.
Russert: Well, that’s disputed for now. What is not disputed is that John McCain is the Republican who won the most votes in California. We’re certainly not going to resolve the delegate question here and now, but the credentials committee at the RNC will resolve it. So leaving it aside and looking at the calendar, most analysts are saying it looks increasingly unlikely–even if you do prevail in the upcoming contests where you are favored–that you will win a majority of the pledged delegates, though you will likely have a plurality. What is also in very little doubt at this point is that Senator McCain will have gotten more raw votes this primary season than Governor Bush.
Is Governor Bush prepared to take this fight to the convention and potentially deny the nomination to the top vote-getter this primary season?
Rove: Well John McCain has always been every Democrat’s favorite Republican–the other four guys in the Keating Five were even Democrats–so it’s no surprise that he picked up a few Democrat votes in a few Democrat states. But this is a fight for the Republican nomination, and Governor Bush has the heart and soul of the Republican Party behind him.
Russert: Karl Rove, that sounds like a “yes.” Just to be clear: if Governor Bush fails to secure the majority of the pledged delegates by June 6th, will this campaign carry the fight to Philadelphia, or will the Governor concede?
Rove: Tim, you don’t concede when you’re winning.
------ Tim Russert and Karl Rove, Meet the Press, May 14, 2000.
“A few days after the Guard moved in, the Miami part of the family ended up handing [Elian] over to INS, I guess it was. No cameras, no publicity. I think they handed him over at an Air Force base, and we’re all thinking that the whole thing kind of ended in anticlimax. With a whimper, you know?
We were so naïve.”
----- Anderson Cooper, quoted in Burned: The Rise, Fall, and Undeath of the Reform Party, by Matt Taibbi, 2017.
Another good update, and it looks like it the rate of update is picking up some steam
although
although
I know that English is my second language, but am I missing something here or what?
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