I just honestly didn't think any real communist existed anymore outside of Russian loonies and Fox News fever dreams.
have you been living under a rock since december 2014
I just honestly didn't think any real communist existed anymore outside of Russian loonies and Fox News fever dreams.
You're unironically a communist?
I think Gulags were real. But this seems like it belongs in chat.literally everything you have been told about what communism is was a lie.
join the light side.
Communist is not the same as Stalinist. Or Maoist, for that matter.I think Gulags were real.
I think Gulags were real. But this seems like it belongs in chat.
I've been under a rock, what happened in December 2014?have you been living under a rock since december 2014
the Soviet Union IOTL was state capitalist, not "communist". communism doesn't involve states. actually read Marx.
We are not denying the atrocities committed by 20th century self-identified communism @Canaan Osborne though this conversation definitely belongs to chat.
Its something that requires further space for political discussion that does not belong to this part of the site.
Just a clue on where we are going with this. When we use the word "communism", we do not deny that this word may identify to a lot of dreadful things you may associate the word with but we also see those dreadful things as deviations from where the word was originally in place in that year 1917 for a variety of reasons.
As someone mentioned years ago here, we are the kind of people that Lenin and Trotsky may put in a gulag as early as 1918.
Ok i am done. Lets end this.
The gulag was created 10 years after the civil war.As someone mentioned years ago here, we are the kind of people that Lenin and Trotsky may put in a gulag as early as 1918.
Contrary to popular belief, there were many former White Guards among Kronstadtites - this was an uprising united by one slogan, "Soviets without Communists." And under this slogan, everyone gathered - from the anarchists to the right-wing radicals.It gets worse then that. The Soviets denounced Kronstadt rebels as "foreign counter-revolutionaries", while making deals with foreign governments to ensure its survival.
Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks were the only ones who had specific goals and objectives, and who could instill discipline in their forces. Many of the warring parties did not differ much from ordinary bandits.From its very beginning OTL, Leninism was a wretched joke.
The gulag was created 10 years after the civil war.
Contrary to popular belief, there were many former White Guards among Kronstadtites - this was an uprising united by one slogan, "Soviets without Communists." And under this slogan, everyone gathered - from the anarchists to the right-wing radicals.
Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks were the only ones who had specific goals and objectives, and who could instill discipline in their forces. Many of the warring parties did not differ much from ordinary bandits.
There are fundamental differences between the Red Terror and the Stalinist Repressions.Summary execution then.
The suppression of the uprising was cruel, and the uprising was provoked by objective reasons - the protracted civil war and economic problems, but the leaders of the uprising had their own interests.And the suppression of the worker councils wasn't real? Stop justifying their atrocities. You can think the revolution was justified without having to go down with them on every single event.
Building socialism is a noble goal. However, war, economic devastation, and mass illiteracy make us look for long and difficult ways. If it were not for the war and the defeat of the Reds in Germany, everything would have been different.Determination towards the wrong goal is worse than nothing.
Building socialism is a noble goal. However, war, economic devastation, and mass illiteracy make us look for long and difficult ways. If it were not for the war and the defeat of the Reds in Germany, everything would have been different.
Another coup? After 5 years of fighting gangsters and officers? After the foreign occupation? When is the country of unrest and famine? Where will you find bread? Where do you find raw materials? Where do you get teachers from (80% of the population can neither read nor write, and don't know the simple mathematical operations)? Don't be such an idealist - sometimes you have to retreat or commit unworthy acts. This is the first.If Germany went red after Kronstadt, I'm confident Russia would need another revolutionary push to get back on a socialist track. The party wasn't going to relinquish power back to the working class after putting it down.
Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks were the only ones who had specific goals and objectives, and who could instill discipline in their forces. Many of the warring parties did not differ much from ordinary bandits.
Another coup? After 5 years of fighting gangsters and officers? After the foreign occupation? When is the country of unrest and famine? Where will you find bread? Where do you find raw materials? Where do you get teachers from (80% of the population can neither read nor write, and don't know the simple mathematical operations)? Don't be such an idealist - sometimes you have to retreat or commit unworthy acts. This is the first.
Secondly - in there was a legal internal party opposition, and even independent parties.
Oh good grief.I just honestly didn't think any real communist existed anymore outside of Russian loonies and Fox News fever dreams.
I just honestly didn't think any real communist existed anymore outside of Russian loonies and Fox News fever dreams.