The Great Crusade (Reds! Part 3)

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Aelita, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Threadmarks: Prelude

    Aelita In ur means of production...

    Nov 10, 2008
    Earth, to my misfortune
    The Great Crusade

    A History of the Global Antifascist Struggle
    "Soldiers, sailors and airmen of the United Nations! You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you."*
    Army General David Eisenhower
    "They told us that our collaboration with the German fascists was necessary to preserve our neutrality. And yet in less than a month, the King had appointed [Sven Olov] Lindholm as his Prime Minister, and the Germans had made us their vassal. No one could escape the war."
    Greta Gustaffson, Swedish actress and emigre
    "If there is one thing to be remembered about the Second World War, it must be this: in the six years since the world plunged headlong into War in May 1940, nearly one hundred million have perished. After seeing the ghostly streets of Nanjing, the human abattoir of the kazetts, it feels as though some part of human goodness has drained from me. It is useless to fear the Devil when men built Auschwitz."
    George Orwell​

    "In spite of our justifiable cynicism, we should never forget that for all the power politics behind the scenes, the Second World War was still primarily a moral cause. In spite of my inclination to deconstruct such narratives, I do feel comfortable saying that we were, as the British would say, 'on the side of the angels'."
    Michel Foucault
    "I have the real feeling I 'evacuated' 30,000 Jews already, by shooting them, at Riga. Is what I did 'evacuation'? When they fell, were they 'evacuated'? There are another 20,000, at least, waiting for similar 'evacuation'. - I just think it is helpful to know what words mean... with all respect."*
    SS-Standartenführer Rudolf Lange

    "Many veterans say they are upset at being criticized for the atrocities they committed fighting on the Soviet front; at least as upset as the people who criticize them for the atrocities. But really, what upsets them is not the criticism, but being reminded of their part in them. Just as their critics are really upset about having their myth of the glorious antifascist struggle ruined by the reality of it."
    Henry Kerrigan†, British war correspondent
    "The euphemism we used was 'liquidation'. We used the phrase a lot. 'Liquidation' was the common solution for a number of situations, whether it was captured Waffen-SS, civilian collaborators, suspected spies, or deserters. They don't talk about that part in the war movies or the news reels. When they do, they justify it by saying that our victims deserved it. But that's just bullshit; the people I liquidated didn't deserve it any more than anyone else. What I did was evil, but it was necessary evil."​
    Major Jane Schafer†
    "Just as you supported and carried out a policy of not wanting to share the earth with the Slavic people, Jewish people and the people of a number of other nations—as though you and your ilk had any right to determine who should and who should not inhabit the world—we find that no one, that is, no member of the human race, can be expected to want to share the earth with you. This is the reason, and the only reason, you must hang."*​
    Hannah Arendt, German judge for the International Military Tribunal
    "Here in Britain, we cannot seem to decide if the Americans are our friends or our enemies. In my youth, America was like our somewhat strange cousin; still our family and always welcome at our house, but he had his strange quirks that we didn't understand. Suddenly in 1933, America was our enemy, threatening our Dominions with an invasion by Godless Communists. And just as suddenly, less than ten years later we had propaganda posters featuring a Yankee soldier telling us 'This man is your friend, he fights for freedom!' And now I'm starting to hear talk that we're enemies again."​
    C.S. Lewis
    "Once I saw the photos of the aftermath of the atomic bombing of Kyoto, I couldn't get Ken Bainbridge's comment out of my mind; We really were all sons of bitches for our part in the project."​
    Andrei Sakharov
    "It's difficult in times like these: ideals, dreams and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality. It's a wonder I haven't abandoned all my ideals, they seem so absurd and impractical. Yet I cling to them because I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."*​
    Anne Frank

    '*' denotes a parallel quote to OTL
    '†' denotes a fictional person


    Unfortunately, my friends, all that you get at the moment is a teaser of things to come. This section of the Reds! timeline will cover the period from the start of World War 2 until its conclusion, and the immediate aftermath.

    Stylistically, things are going to change a bit for this section. There's going to be less epistolary content, and more narratives and short stories. So it will read a bit less like a history scrapbook and a bit more like a novel.

    Tune in at some unspecified date in the nearish(?) future for an overview of the sequence of events leading to the start of the war, as well as summaries of the geopolitics at play.

    For those of you discovering this for the first time, this is third part of a timeline where events led to a revolutionary socialist movement taking power in the United States after a very different Progressive era resulted in a very different labor movement and a different World War 1. Unfortunately, since the early parts in the process of being revised and retconned, there's no easy way to read the whole thing. The first part has been revised up through the Red May Revolution and the Civil War and can be found here.

    However, I will be compiling important posts as an FAQ in this thread, to help sort out this mess. So hopefully, we'll get through this mess alive.

    Index Lovingly Compiled by tuxer

    1. World Map-circa 1936
    2. A History of the Global Antifascist Struggle
    3. A4 Pacific
    4. A4 Pacific (Picture)
    5. The Road to War
    6. The Beginning of the Second World War
    7. Alas, Babylon: An Economic Anthology of the Second World War
    8. Operation Teutonic
    9. The Arsenal of Socialism
    10. Armored Fighting Vehicles of the Second World War (Part 1)
    11. Armored Fighting Vehicles of the Second World War (Part 2)
    12. The Siege of Leningrad
    13. Films about WWII
    14. Weapons of the Second World War
    15. Overview and Documentaries
    16. Foster and Churchill's date
    17. The War in the Pacific
    18. China in the Second world war (part 1)
    19. China in the Second world war (part 2)
    20. Henry Ford the Arch-Traitor (Part 1)
    21. Henry Ford the Arch-Traitor (Part 2)
    22. Henry Ford the Arch-Traitor (Part 3)
    23. Gun Porn
    24. Speeches to Remember (Part 1)
    25. Operation Valkyrie: The Drive on Moscow
    26. Stalinism can't melt steel
    27. Strategic Bombing
    28. Foreign Affairs
    29. UASR Armed Forces strength, WW2 (year end)
    30. Darkest Hour
    31. Excerpts from the thread "Good PODs for the Western Front (WW2)"
    32. Operation Thrush: the Don Basin Counteroffensive
    33. Secret War: Espionage in World War II
    34. Tanks a lot
    35. China in the Second World War (part 3)
    36. War in the South! - October 10th 1940
    37. The War for the Mediterranean (part 1)
    38. Speeches to Remember (Part 2)
    39. British Naval Porn
    40. Timeline February 2nd 1942- May 28th 1943
    41. Excerpts from the thread “WI: Axis victory in the Battle of Iceland”
    42. Wartime censorship
    43. The Green Guard
    44. Panzer 25 Gepard tank
    45. The Auroran War Part 1: Finland's wrath and Operation Ragnar
    46. German Heavy Tanks/Phallic Symbols
    47. Post-Revolution Battleships of the WFRN
    48. The Battle of Midway
    49. thread "Earlier Iberian Campaign"
    50. Stalingrad: When Titans Clashed
    51. "To Defend Freedom" the War in South America
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
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  2. Dan Grumpy Old Man. Approach with Caution.

    May 18, 2010
    A slightly less civilised part of the Fens
    Like the others - Subscribed.
  3. Iñaki Sailing in the Cosmic Ocean of Alternate Earths

    Feb 27, 2006
    Me too:)

  4. Van555 Social Reformist

    Jun 30, 2010
    Santa Clara Region, Republic of California
    ahhh yeah :cool:
  5. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby!

    Sep 5, 2010
    Great! I love Reds! and I think its a very good world.
  6. Luath Keeping the RetroFuture alive.

    Jun 4, 2012
    CF 105 III cockpit
    Whoopee!!! This will be A.W.E.S.O.M.E
  7. Kongzilla Banned

    Oct 13, 2012
    I'm not really sure what this TL is about. Would someone mind explaining.
    Aza likes this.
  8. teg The Worst Unionist

    Sep 24, 2009
  9. Petike Sky Pirate Extraordinaire

    Jun 25, 2008
    Clockpunk Zemplín Kingdom / Franz Josef's Land
    One nitpick, JB : Given the butterfly ripples in this TL, I'd expect George Orwell to not be known by his pseudonym, but by a different one or as Eric Arthur Blair.
    Ddmkm122 and Lord_Vespasian like this.
  10. Plumber Manifest Destiny inspired Lebensraum

    May 31, 2009
  11. The Sandman Purveyor of Sky Cake Banned

    Mar 10, 2005
    A twisty maze of passages, all alike
    My guess is that Stimson isn't a major figure in the UASR government and therefore there isn't anyone advocating to preserve Kyoto's cultural treasures for the future.

    Given that the war lasts into '46, I'd have expected that Germany eats a nuke or two as well. Probably before Japan, in fact; the only reason Germany didn't get hit IOTL is they fell before any nukes were ready. Nuremberg seems a likely target.

    And I still think that ITTL Japan would have to be an earlier priority, because an invasion of the Kuriles and South Sakhalin is pretty much required if the UASR and USSR want to keep any sort of supply line between them open during the first four years or so of the war.
  12. Nevermore All Killer, No Filler

    Jul 15, 2008
    A Rock and a Hard Place
    Neat, I actually get to be there for the start of a threads rather than playing catch up. :cool:

    A very nice, if somewhat terrifying, look into the 'Great Crusade,' Jello. I was literally gawking at Orwell's implication of 100 million dead from this. Even with a Holocaust that's not quite as severe as OTL, that's almost beyond words. Especially when, even if it was likely hyperbole, that the Soviets and Americans are going to bear the brunt of it as they're 80% of the casualties.

    It's also a bit shocking to hear about the liquidation procedures, even if I rather suspected that would be the case. I'm guessing that this is one of the things posters in Reds!' future point to, if they're in the FBU, to say that the UASR and USSR were almost as bad as Nazi Germany? I really like the quotes by Arendt and Lewis, too.

    It's an absolute shame that Kyoto goes up in a mushroom cloud. I'm guessing that this will be a definite point of contention between the Japanese and Americans, even if they become official allies after the war.

    P.S. Does Anne Frank have a bright future ahead of her ITTL? I'd assume that's a reason she got a nod in the preview...
  13. d32123 Banned

    Aug 30, 2011
    北林海, 卡斯凯迪亚自治区
    Subscribed. Amazing as usual.
  14. Aelita In ur means of production...

    Nov 10, 2008
    Earth, to my misfortune
    Reds! Timeline FAQ

    What happens to Canada?

    Whatever happens, no one really knows what it means to be a Canadian anymore

    What happens to Christmas?

    It is considered more of a religious holiday than OTL

    Why don't revolutionaries steamroll through Latin America?

    Because revolution is hard.

    What happens to sports?

    Things change as much as they stay the same. And Hockey world cups.

    Was their Prohibition in the US?

    Yes, but not to the same extent as OTL.

    What about film, theater and such?

    Read Allo Allo Secret Army's posts, because he's much more knowledgeable on the subject than I.

    Is there an 'Unmentionable Sea Mammal'?


    What type of government and ideology do they have in the UASR?

    Depends on who you ask, but Americans call them a 'matryoshka republic' and 'Marxism-DeLeonism' respectively.

    Any idea what's gonna happen in the middle east?

    Cold War skullduggery

    How is the International Communist project different ITTL?

    More Marx, less Lenin.

    How would one publish a book in the UASR?

    Like OTL, it involves kissing the right asses.

    What's the American economy like in the 1930s?


    More coming later...
    Ddmkm122 likes this.
  15. eliphas8 Frankentrotsky

    Jul 1, 2011
    The Sewers.
    This is looking awesome, really can't wait to read more given how awesome the last two are. By the way, is there any chance we may see the part two entries all collected together? Because at the end finding the later updates is really hard.
  16. Aelita In ur means of production...

    Nov 10, 2008
    Earth, to my misfortune
    They will eventually make their way into the Finished Timelines and Scenarios thread after revision.
    Ddmkm122 likes this.
  17. Japhy Second Best Poster on the Site Banned

    Feb 17, 2007
    Albany, New York
    I'm not at all that interested in the ideological nature of Reds but I'll admit for some time I've been interested in seeing your take on WWII so, I'll be reading this and keeping quiet. Subscribed.
  18. Chipperback Catherverse 2017: Weirdtopia Continues

    Jun 22, 2011
    Hartford, Connecticut UCNE/Omaha, Nebraska GPUR
    I'm interested in seeing how the UASR battles the Fascist.

    I'm also interested in seeing how the homefront handles the war. What the propaganda is..

    And would we still need a "Double V" campaign even with the cultural revolution :)
  19. Urban fox Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2006
    The Grand Duchy of Kilmarnock
    I guess Nazi Germany and Japan suffer worse than OTL, still given the changed world situation the U.S.S.R and China could be much better off.
  20. GiantMonkeyMan Dirty Red

    May 3, 2007
    Consider me teased, Jello.