The Fourth Shore - Italy 1940 with Il Duce

I wonder what would happen in Leningrad failed in OTL. Joseph Stalin rehabilitated some of the officers imprisoned during the Great Purge (i.e. Rokossovsky) and allowed them to return to the Red Army in 1941 and after Operation Barbarossa. Soviet Army was strong enough to repeal December German attacks despite horrendous losses in both lifes and equiment. I can not see another purge after fall of Leningrad. On the contrary - all efforts would be centered on retaking historical city named after Vladimir Lenin in which the Revolution began. Due to Red Army attacks during late 1941 (probably unsuccessful) and 1942 German invasion into Caucasus would be delayed/weakened saving another hundreds of thousands lives from both sides. Attack in the northern part of the Front would surely convinced even Hitler to strenghten these forces. Combine this with ideological value of the Leningrad and you have Stalingrad on steroids.

About the Poles settling in Libya (including Polish Jews - at that time both Jews and Poles were Polish citizens so it is easier to call them as Poles - otherwise we should call difference between parts of Germany - Prussians, Bavarians and others, Belgians - Flemish and Wallonians, Soviets - combination of few dozens of nations) - my grandparents lived during the war - the oldest was born on 1934 and remember inhumane treatment of the Soviet Prisoners of War (she witnessed deaths from starvation when Germans were relocating them to the camps). If ATL there was possibility to leave occupied Poland, thousands of people would leave the country to the better place. Italo Balbo should be seen ATL as saviour - not a man who brought prisoners to the forced labour but gave them land and allowed to cultivate it. Remember that Germans began bloody persecution of Poles since September 1939 (hundreds people from Warsaw were executed in the forests), each action from resistance movement was met with reaction (ten kilometers from the town were I live there was village burnt to the ground and its inhabitants killed because German gendarme was assasinated), even without the Final Solution or death camps no one was safe. So I expect that ATL people would want to leave en masse - selling all their property and bribing Italians if possible. Some of them would want to fight against Germany by joining the Polish forces in the West (by the way, what happened to the Władysław Anders and its army in the east?) while others will want to continue peaceful life in the Libya (even desert is better than Germany during early 1940s). Some of them who wanted to return to Poland will be scared by the new communist regime so I would expect large Polish minority in modern day Libya.

You can always begin cooperation between Italian Kingdom and the Polish government in-exile. Fascist Italy won't like the Soviet Union influence over half of the continent to supporting anti-communist government could be useful in strenghtening bonds with the Polish minority and other anti-communists.
 
Well interesting TL!

I am unsure how effectively went the collapse of Yugoslavia... So the German paratroopers occupied Belgrade, the Croats seceded and so Montenegro under Italian protection, I guess Germany and Italy agreed over an ATL Vienna award or agreed on a split before? Guessing Germany will annex Slovenia, Croatia under Italian sphere and taking Bosnia, Hungary annexing Banat, Montenegro under Italian protection, Kosovo to Albania (so "formally" not Italian) and Serbia miserably under German occupation.

Bulgaria maybe took North Macedonia as well... Therefore pushing Greece to ally with Italy.

I wonder if the Italians would still send the ARMIR as mere and smaller volunteer corp just to keep quiet Germany... Seems hard for Rome to stall this kind of requests from Berlin if things in the USSR would turn nasty.
 
I wonder if the Italians would still send the ARMIR as mere and smaller volunteer corp just to keep quiet Germany... Seems hard for Rome to stall this kind of requests from Berlin if things in the USSR would turn nasty.

Perhaps it would be a good occasion to get rid of hotheads like Franco (supposedly) did with Division Azul.
 
Could the leadership be sly enough to allow Italian communists to join volunteer units in the Soviet Union?
Clean out the hotheads on all sides of the political spectrum.
 
Could the leadership be sly enough to allow Italian communists to join volunteer units in the Soviet Union?
Clean out the hotheads on all sides of the political spectrum.

Until 1943 the Italian communist presence was pratically nil. With Togliatti still in Russia, the major opposition party, yet in clandestinity, would be still the Socialists. But the PSI was surely more bogged in France those days than Italy.
 
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Redcoat

Banned
Didn't Il Duce want to settle the land with Italians? Maybe they might just keep those lands, that'd be cool to see happening.
 
Until 1943 the Italian communist presence was pratically nil. With Togliatti still in Russia, the major opposition party, yet in clandestinity, would be still the Socialists. But the PSI was surely more boggled in France those days than Italy.

Yep, till the war started and the humiliations piled up the internal opposition towards Benny regime was between nothing and zero; frankly i doubt that keeping the nation out of a war nobody really want while at the same time getting nice territorial and economic rewards for this will make the fascist goverment unpopular.
Frankly the general situation can see the economic loss due to the idiotic endevour in Spain and Abyssinia reversed and having a little boom due to the order from more or less everybody, hell it's even probable that the politic of keeping the women out of the labour force will be reversed (at least temporary) due to the general needs.
 
Yep, till the war started and the humiliations piled up the internal opposition towards Benny regime was between nothing and zero; frankly i doubt that keeping the nation out of a war nobody really want while at the same time getting nice territorial and economic rewards for this will make the fascist goverment unpopular.
Frankly the general situation can see the economic loss due to the idiotic endevour in Spain and Abyssinia reversed and having a little boom due to the order from more or less everybody, hell it's even probable that the politic of keeping the women out of the labour force will be reversed (at least temporary) due to the general needs.

Especially with a government who can sell at home to have finally washed the humiliation of 1881, and well Corsica.
 
(apologies for the long break – Christmas is family time)

December 25, 1941 – Warsaw, Office of Ludwig Fischer (Polish General Government)

Fischer looked at the Italian officer in a manner rather like a large load of foul sewage had been dumped in his office. General Giatano was dressed elaborate with enough brad to outfit a small opera company and had been accompanied by no less than 12 staff officers from the Italian mission to the General Government. Now Giatano had draped his cape over the chair and was lighting an expensive cigarette, in an ivory holder no less. Still orders were for maximum cooperation. He pasted a smile on his face an spoke. “I am glad General that our conference went so smoothly today.” The Italian smiled and said nothing. “As you can see by our tour today we are terribly overcrowded in the Government and need to reduce our population.”

Giatano spoke “Yes well if you insist on moving so many Poles and Jews out of the areas you take over then over population is likely to be the result. Plus I imagine the British raids are quite disruptive.” He smiled again and took a long drag on the cigarette. “It is a great pity that you could not follow up the capture of Leningrad with the taking of Moscow. That would have freed far more resources.”

Fischer replied “The temporary pause before Moscow is but a delay. Soon enough Stalin and his henchmen will surrender.”

Giatano answered “Bravely said Herr Fischer, bravely said. But while I am sure come the spring you will resume your battles it appears that this year…. Ah but let’s address the issue of population. We are having great difficulty moving the Poles and other displaced persons overseas.” He took another puff on his smoke and continued “In fact we may well have to keep some of our new guests in Italy for some time. Which raises the question of how to feed and employ the wretches. And while your own methods here seem very…direct…it is not quite the way of our new leader.”

Fischer waited a beat. “Your new Duce is quite inventive. Surely he can find some use for them?”

“Yes well we are opening up many new factories in Italy and in Pannonia. The Poles and such will make willing workers there. Then we can also use them as agricultural guests to help our own farmers. But it strains our resources. Thank goodness we have Tunisia. So long as the French can be compel to accept some of their own back we can keep moving settlers into there. But these are matters beyond our concern here. We have to set the quota for the next six months eh? Now to date we have brought off what 350,000 since we started? I would think we can easily double that in the next year. Most of the labor would have to say in Italy for the time being, but a goodly number can be moved to the fourth shore.”

Fischer looked at the Italian “Our needs are a little more pressing than 700,000. We would want you to take more than that.”

The General smiled his meaningless smile again. “Ah well that is what we are here to discuss. Most of this first lot were able to assist financially in their relocation. I would also expect the Jews you take in from Russia will be less ‘adaptable’ to resettlement. I fear you may be disappointed unless there would be some consideration?”

Fischer sighed. This would not be cheap.

January 12, 1942 – Kuybyshev, USSR (Temporary Italian Embassy)

Ambassador Brosio* shook the Soviet Secretary’s hand as he entered the dining room. A large number of Italian and foreign officials milled about. “My dear Secretary Molotov it is good to see you. I can’t tell you how glad I will be to have our next meeting back in Mosow.”

Molotov studied the Italian then thru his translator replied “Ambassador Brosio it is good of you to say. The Hitlerites have been…thrown back. We hope to see all the embassies back in Moscow before the spring.” Brosio nodded and waved his hand towards the buffet. Molotov and the translator followed. “You must understand, while I apprehend…appreciate the invitation I have much to do now. Was there some specific question you had for the Soviet government?”

Brosio smiled and answered “As you know your oil exports to us have been curtailed severely by the outbreaks of hostilities between you and the Germans.” Molotov said nothing merely stared. “We very much need to continue to receive oil and material from the USSR in order to continue on our own path.” Again Molotov remained silent. Plunging ahead Brosio went on “In fact we think we might make it advantageous to continue and even expand exports. You see our government under the new leadership has been in contact with certain nations that are more closely aligned to your interest. They feel that some indirect trade, through Italy might well be possible. The current exports of raw Oil could be paid for by these more ‘refined’ materials.”

Molotov asked “Assuming the Soviet government would agree to such an arrangement I can’t imagine the German government would be pleased.”

Brosio laughed casually. “Germany is rather busy now and I think has little stomach for an open break with our government. Refined fuel, electronics, radios, foodstuff, all of this can be carried in.”

Molotov answered “For a price of course.”

Brosio nodded “My dear secretary. When it comes to trade aren’t we all capitalist?”

January 31, 1942 – Rome, Speech to the Chamber of Deputies, Plazzo Montecitorio

Balbo strode to the platform and raised his hand in salute. The deputies rose and returned the salute then gave him thunderous applause. Balbo held his hand out to quiet the noise and then began to speak.

“I speak with you just 2 months after the death of our beloved Duce, and while I have accepted his offices, I can never accept that I can replace him. All that I can do is to offer you a way, the fascist way, that he blazed and that we can follow. Today Italy is at peace and it is my pledge that so long as Italian honor can be maintained so it will remain at peace. Our cause has advanced on all fronts and the peace Italy so fervently protects has given us great benefit. Corsica, Nice, Savoy, Pannonia and Tunisia have all returned to the protection of our state! Further the Mare Nostrum has become less of a dream and more of a reality with our new alliance with Greece. The army and navy grow daily in strength and remain a shield and sword guarding our land.

Now some in this chamber, some small number, might question some of the decisions made by this government. They might bray for war or mutter against our relations with other nations. To them I say that every treaty we have, with every nation, is a pledge of Italian honor! We have and will continue to meet all our obligations under such defensive and trade treaties. I would remind those members too of the new factories, new refineries and new farms that are growing all over our Empire! Who can doubt that our course is the right course? Who can deny that with honor we have remained friends to our Northern Allies? No one.

Excerpt from and Economic History of European Banking and Trade 1940 - 1945

…The executive order issued by Roosevelt in 1940 (see Appendix Executive Order 8389) was altered in late 1941 to provide partial exemption for Italy. Since the death of Mussolini the US had been steadily improving relations with Italy. Not only did a growing percentage of US cargo on Italian bottoms pass thru Bantum but Financial support was soon forth coming. The obvious hope of both the Roosevelt and the Churchill governments was to turn Italy from a pro-Axis neutral into a pro-Allied state. Something by early 1942 that Germany obviously feared.



*In our TL Manlio Brosio had been purged out of the government for his anti-fascist views. Here he has been ‘rehabilitated’ and put to use.
 
Pannonia proper was a province of roman empire. I revived it as a term for the upper part of the new Italian run Croatian Kingdom. Sorry for the confusion.
 
So the Allies are trying to turn Italy into a Pro-allied nation. I wonder what pieces of gold will the allies have to pay to the Italians to get this to happen. Given the French have been "liberated" of Tunisia and Corsica already and I'm still not all that clear on what the Italians got in the Yugoslavian break up, what else can they offer the Italians?

The WAllies will be looking post-war and see that giving the Italians Savoy and Nice is more trouble than its worth. Even more French colonies might be more of a headache than its worth. The rest of Tyrol being annexed by the Italians? Austria as their bitch for lack of a better word? And this would be on top of agreeing to gains already made.
 
If there's a silver lining in all of this it's that tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Slavs and Jews will be saved from the Holocaust by becoming Italian citizens. Not really the best method but anything to prevent these people from dying in hellholes like Auschwitz is a win in my book. I am curious about how the Eastern Front will end up towards the end. I guess at this point it matters on whether or not the Soviets can get their Stalingrad. I'm also convinced that by the end it will be Patton steamrolling into Berlin and the Iron Curtain will be pushed back to Poland or the Baltics.
 
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