The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

[TheKutKu]

Well, Damascus, Baghdad, and Cairo, the three main centers of the Arab World, are irradiated wastelands.

Well, what is left can be preserved, and also I hope some buildings can be rebuilt

Also France in a way nuked itself (although the Sahara wasn’t - IRL - départements until 1957)

Let’s hope colonising countries won’t have to do that again in the future, Be it France, Italy in Ethiopia, or Portugal/South Africa/Rhodesia in Southern Africa

 

[Whiteshore]

Well, what is left can be preserved, and also I hope some buildings can be rebuilt

What do you say then about the possibility that the dialects of Arabic are seen ITTL as distinct languages with "Arabic" being seen as a language family as opposed to a language with diverse dialects with people speaking of "the Arabic languages"?

 

[Falecius]

A thing that perplexes me: in Tripoli, the RA nuked a Soviet naval base, yet, the Soviet Union choses not to retaliate.
I think that Khrushchev, while rightly rightly thinking that further nuclear escalation is too risky, will be under enormous pressure to do something.
Which explains the foreshadowed further esclation of the war, although I do not really see how this may play out without a full-scale WWIII, which I doubt is where the author wants to go.

 

[Sorairo]

A thing that perplexes me: in Tripoli, the RA nuked a Soviet naval base, yet, the Soviet Union choses not to retaliate.
I think that Khrushchev, while rightly rightly thinking that further nuclear escalation is too risky, will be under enormous pressure to do something.
Which explains the foreshadowed further esclation of the war, although I do not really see how this may play out without a full-scale WWIII, which I doubt is where the author wants to go.

The base wasn't finished - there weren't any Soviet troops there.

 

[Sorairo]

Makes sense thanks.

I realised between the Chinese civil war, Indian civil war, destruction of Warsaw, second Arab war, there may be something like 80 millions excess deaths compared to IRl.

While Anglo-American Nazi was is worse (something like 150 million excess deaths), it does seem the two are on a more or less similar level after all.

Let’s just hope Arab culture and heritage is preserved after that

However, at the same time, a lot of bad things have either stopped happening or have been minimized.

WW2 ended earlier, Mao will not be allowed to destroy China with famine, earlier Indian ascent from poverty, the Vietnam War will not happen, etc.

 

[Joriz Castillo]

I wonder about the psychological effects of this war. Egyptians will probably see antisemitism and pan-arabism as one of the prime reasons of their fall and shun such ideologies accordingly, but will probably absolutely despite the Italians. Syrians and Iraqis on the other hand might well as others have speculated simply believe that they were betrayed by Nasser and had an unfair fight due to the Jewish menace having those ebil colonializt allies.

Could the Arabs even learn their lesson about the war? They tried fighting Israel TWICE and got their asses whooped. Surely, someone in the leadership should be thinking right now "Going to war against Israel was a huge mistake, and we must never repeat it again".

 

[NotBigBrother]

Also France in a way nuked itself (although the Sahara wasn’t - IRL - départements until 1957)

IRL France performed the first nuclear test in Algerian Sahara in 1960, then some others followed.

 

[Bbone91]

Could the Arabs even learn their lesson about the war? They tried fighting Israel TWICE and got their asses whooped. Surely, someone in the leadership should be thinking right now "Going to war against Israel was a huge mistake, and we must never repeat it again".

You’re assuming that people are rational even under the most dire of circumstances. It’s just as likely that the Arab people will think “The only reason we lost was because of *insert-scapegoat-here*. This time we’re gonna put Israel down!”

 

[TheKutKu]

IRL France performed the first nuclear test in Algerian Sahara in 1960, then some others followed.

I was talking ITTL, and well it's true France nuked itself IRL, but it wasn't in a military situation.

That shows one of the "saner" Colonizing countries, france, is willing to nukes its own people if they revolt.

 

[The Undead Martyr]

Makes sense thanks.

I realised between the Chinese civil war, Indian civil war, destruction of Warsaw, second Arab war, there may be something like 80 millions excess deaths compared to IRl.

While Anglo-American Nazi was is worse (something like 150 million excess deaths), it does seem the two are on a more or less similar level after all.

Let’s just hope Arab culture and heritage is preserved after that

In some ways it's almost a dark mirror of AANW. Europe (and Japan) got a lighter deal than OTL.... and everyone else, including the US, got a worse one.

Makes sense considering both have the fascists "winning" which is pretty much by definition a Bad End for a whole lot of people...

 

[Adrien_skywalker]

A thing that perplexes me: in Tripoli, the RA nuked a Soviet naval base, yet, the Soviet Union choses not to retaliate.
I think that Khrushchev, while rightly rightly thinking that further nuclear escalation is too risky, will be under enormous pressure to do something.
Which explains the foreshadowed further esclation of the war, although I do not really see how this may play out without a full-scale WWIII, which I doubt is where the author wants to go.

No, what is most likely in my opinion is a possible soviet civil war! Between saner people like Khrushchev who know that their country and its existence is hanging on by a thread and do not wish to escalate even if it means a loss of face; against idiotic hardliners who do not care about consequences and are more worried about proving their strength and saving their face. Already @Sorairo mentioned about Suslov. Hardcore ideologists are impeccable on theory but hopeless when it comes to reality. Ideologists are by nature always hovering at the brink of descending into fanaticism and zealotry. A defeat like this means a defeat of their very thought process, which they cannot accept, no matter the cost. If Khrushchev decides not to escalate, I can very easily see people like Suslov or Andropov staging a coup and offing Khrushchev.

Zealots and fanatics cannot be bargained with and reasoned with. Aflaq being a prime example here of how that ends ITTL. Now, I guess it is the communist's time to pay the butcher's bill.

 

[Falecius]

The base wasn't finished - there weren't any Soviet troops there.

Fair enough - I'd still expect the Soviets to react somehow.

 

[Whiteshore]

No, what is most likely in my opinion is a possible soviet civil war!

Considering the USSR lasts until the 1970s ITTL, what is more likely is that there is a coup.

 

[Talus I of Dixie]

Never Again

Man, it shocked me psychologically

Like, i got goose bumps just reading about the bombings, TTL is the first to affect me like that (more than one time).

So...Aflaq fucked up more than i expected to

 

[Bookmark1995]

No, what is most likely in my opinion is a possible soviet civil war! Between saner people like Khrushchev who know that their country and its existence is hanging on by a thread and do not wish to escalate even if it means a loss of face; against idiotic hardliners who do not care about consequences and are more worried about proving their strength and saving their face. Already @Sorairo mentioned about Suslov. Hardcore ideologists are impeccable on theory but hopeless when it comes to reality. Ideologists are by nature always hovering at the brink of descending into fanaticism and zealotry. A defeat like this means a defeat of their very thought process, which they cannot accept, no matter the cost. If Khrushchev decides not to escalate, I can very easily see people like Suslov or Andropov staging a coup and offing Khrushchev.

Zealots and fanatics cannot be bargained with and reasoned with. Aflaq being a prime example here of how that ends ITTL. Now, I guess it is the communist's time to pay the butcher's bill.

Considering the USSR lasts until the 1970s ITTL, what is more likely is that there is a coup.

I'm guessing there is a coup against Khrushchev, which leads to hardliners coming to power.

The hardliners backtrack on reform and double down on Stalinist oppression. This leads to some kind of revolt or revolution in the future.

 

[Kotka]

I'm guessing there is a coup against Khrushchev, which leads to hardliners coming to power.

The hardliners backtrack on reform and double down on Stalinist oppression. This leads to some kind of revolt or revolution in the future.

We already had a Soviet Holocaust, Warsaw razed to the ground, let's not include more Twilight of the Red Tsar.

 

[Icedaemon]

In some ways it's almost a dark mirror of AANW. Europe (and Japan) got a lighter deal than OTL.... and everyone else, including the US, got a worse one.

Makes sense considering both have the fascists "winning" which is pretty much by definition a Bad End for a whole lot of people...

Sub-Saharan Africa on the whole might be breaking even. The apartheid will be worse, but the horrific practices of the various warlords in postcolonial regimes will likely be averted. This might lead to some real success stories in central Africa down the line. It might possibly also lead to the western 'soft left' eventually seeing black people as even more of a victimized group than in OTL.

 

[Bookmark1995]

Sub-Saharan Africa on the whole might be breaking even. The apartheid will be worse, but the horrific practices of the various warlords in postcolonial regimes will likely be averted. This might lead to some real success stories in central Africa down the line. It might possibly also lead to the western 'soft left' eventually seeing black people as even more of a victimized group than in OTL.

The hope is that a prolonged colonization might lead to the colonial powers creating a native class of bureaucrats that could run the country.

But most likely, your just pushing off the problems of decolonization by a generation or so.

 

[TheShah]

holy shirtballs

 

[FickleCrossroad]

Well, Damascus, Baghdad, and Cairo, the three main centers of the Arab World, are irradiated wastelands.

50KT bombs are weak enough for the cities to be rebuilt.

These aren't the multi-megaton bombs of the 1960's.