No - for much the same reasons as OTL, in that the Freedom Party knows it puts them at a disadvantage electorally.
The Footprint of Mussolini - TL
No - for much the same reasons as OTL, in that the Freedom Party knows it puts them at a disadvantage electorally.
This thread was a wild ride and I'm glad I was able to follow along, great work!
I love the Alternate History trope of European empires becoming a trap for the home countries, like Portugal having to declare independence from the Portuguese Empire or Vietnam taking over the Francophonie.
I love the Alternate History trope of European empires becoming a trap for the home countries, like Portugal having to declare independence from the Portuguese Empire or Vietnam taking over the Francophonie.
World Map 2020 - Alt
@Sorairo Two questions. What's the situation with Austria like it said that Austria-Hungary has returned though Pat's map has them seperate also please tell me I got the South Africa homelands right.
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To add onto the possible pop-culture butterflies:
- Without the downfall of Italy from being on the wrong side of WWII, Bruno Sammartino and his family likely remain in Italy where he either remains a nobody or a becomes a celebrity for his yearly appearances in the Italian strongman competitions at the cost of the American wrestling scene never getting the shot in the arm like it did IOTL and likely remaining stuck in the territory days or outright fold when MMA takes over in the 70s-80s. Bruno might even be TTL's Schwarzenegger (who might still be in Austria here) if he goes into a movie career and politics.
- I've envisioned a film called "A Week at Joey's", a cross between OTL's Weekend at Bernie's and The Death of Stalin depicting the Troika as using Stalin's decaying body as a puppet. Probably a box office bomb that becomes a cult classic.
- If Japanese media is more nationalistic and militaristic, then maybe Nintendo goes in the other direction with their games which don't make them as popular in Japan as they do in the West, although this is probably my optimism talking. If so, then at least their war games of OTL (i.e Famicon/Advanced Wars series which has been largely dormant anyways) get butterflied.
- How common is the Military Academy trope used as a setting in Japanese media? Probably a lot more ITTL.
- In TTL's military shooters, the Battle of Trieste is about as frequently portrayed as the Normandy landings are IOTL.
Quite a few more monarchies than OTL! By my count, not counting the old SSRs, almost twice as many monarchies in Europe as republics.
Do all the monarchies in the left column still have some decision-making power, and to what degree? (I know you mentioned the king in Croatia-Bosnia had the most)
Thanks for all your hard work in crafting this for us, Sorairo, and your dedication in answering all these (hopefully not annoying) questions! I have looked forwards to seeing your update every weekend, and wish you all the best in your future endeavors.
Do all the monarchies in the left column still have some decision-making power, and to what degree? (I know you mentioned the king in Croatia-Bosnia had the most)
| Monarchies with some power | Monarchies, ceremonial head of state | Republics |
| Germany | UK | Iceland |
| Hungary | Netherlands | Ireland |
| Romania | Belgium | France |
| Bulgaria | Luxembourg | Finland |
| Spain | Austria | Portugal |
| Italy | Denmark | Czechoslovakia |
| Croatia-Bosnia | Norway | Serbia |
| Greece | Sweden | Poland |
| Vatican City | Liechtenstein | Switzerland |
| Monaco | Andorra | |
| San Marino |
Thanks for all your hard work in crafting this for us, Sorairo, and your dedication in answering all these (hopefully not annoying) questions! I have looked forwards to seeing your update every weekend, and wish you all the best in your future endeavors.
Zagan
Donor
The Prince of Liechtenstein has real power even now in OTL. It shouldn't be any different in TTL.
In OTL, Andorra is a Principality, not a Republic. It shouldn't be any different in TTL.
I suppose it could appear pretty often indeed, but I'm guessing that the "obligatory famous battle" here, at least for american developers, is going to be either Berlin or some other one in Germany we didn't get to know because it was out of focus. But if Italy ever gets a robust videogame industry, I can see the latter parts of the Battle of Trieste becoming staple of military shooters.
On the topic of videogames ITTL, for some reasons I find amusing how the stereotype of military shooters as "gritty shooters where you, playing as a protagonist full of jingoism, murder tons of foreiners speaking a strange language in the desert" of the past decade would converge nicely with TTL's... only, this time, it'd be Italian jingoism and still would be in the perview of historicalness. Also, imagine the kind of RTS you could come up with.
Also, on the topic of board games, I'm now picturing !"Twilight Struggle" as a three-player boardgame... granted a very unbalanced one.
I had thought that the Prince of Liechtenstein’s veto power had been stripped a few years ago but on review I mixed it up with Luxembourg. Thanks for the info.
Nah, it's going to be the Battle of Trieste still, but with USA "volunteers" helping the Italian NPCs, or something like that.
Same for the eventual movies about Trieste, even in those there's going to be Americans everywhere.
People from the US are generally like that, they like to overstate their participation/importance in anything, or if they weren't there, cock up a way for it to be realistic that they were and make it their new reality.
Enjoyable and well written timeline indeed. A couple of minor points:
- a more prosperous Latin America would likely mean more, not less immigration to Estados Unitos.
- higher military spending in Italy combined with continuing wars would likely mean a less prosperous Italy - even if the ww2 fighting in Italy proper is avoided.
- a more prosperous Latin America would likely mean more, not less immigration to Estados Unitos.
- higher military spending in Italy combined with continuing wars would likely mean a less prosperous Italy - even if the ww2 fighting in Italy proper is avoided.
As an American I can confirm that this is absolutely, 100% true. Although it isn’t true of every individual american, it is definitely very accurate in terms of the way we generally portray things as a culture.
Then again they could just as easily split the difference in a dual campaign mode like in World at War for instance. American campaign that opens up with Normandy (hell the opening mission is called "Out of the Frying Pan...") and eventually France and Germany. The Fascist/Italian campaign with Trieste, Ljubljana, Austria, etc and ends the game chronologically ends with the American flag flying over Berlin (complete with the higher ranking supporting character saying that the sacrifices of Americans in this city will alwa ys be honored in a dark foreshadowing to Wallace giving the city up to the Soviets).
Congratulations @Sorairo I enjoyed this immensely from start to finish it was a wild ride and one I'm sad is over but glad I was along for it.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Well, the focus on America (both OTL and TTL) is because the nation that arguably, well, the USSR.
And not many people out of Russia like to acknowledge that Mr. S was a World War II hero.
I wonder what the Soviet campaign, if it still existed, would be like then. It’s likely that they would just show the soviets purely as villains happening to collaborate against the Nazis, but I think it could be far more interesting if you still had a heroic Soviet character while still having the Soviet campaign heavily foreshadow the Soviet Holocaust and show the atrocities that occurred. That could be what causes a lot of the conflict of the mid to late game: the way that the Soviet Character becomes increasingly aware of these things and struggles over how they conflict with their morality. You could even have some of the same Soviet characters from OTL World At War, since the latter betrayal subplot in Black Ops would work even better in the context of such a story.
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While playing as a Jewish Red Army soldier would be tragic given TTL's history, a Soviet campaign would be as likely as an Axis campaign would be IOTL: not happening.
Or you could have something akin to Company of Heroes 2, where it's the Soviet Campaign but pretty much all the Soviet characters are evil, incompetent, and stupid.
(note, this is what I remember being some youtuber complaining about the game's campaign back when it was first released, not sure how valid those are, since I never played the game and all)