I knew it was going to be New Spain a few posts ago.

Although, to be fair, Berrien was going to put Texas on his "I want this place for the United States of America and for Slave Power, and not necessarily in that order" list anyway.

The whole South seems more paranoid at this stage than it was in the 1830s OTL. Hardly surprising given that the South has the Free States on one side, pretty near openly abolitionist Florida on a second, tha freedman settlement in *Oklahoma on a third, and a Louisiana Republic which is mildly less strict on its attitudes towards race on a fourth...

But yeah. When you've already picked a fight with a global superpower (admittedly a distracted one, but still), provoking another enemy seems like a bad move. I somehow doubt the free states are going to be very active in supporting this. The direct casus belli for war with Britain was the Canadian Rebellions - something which the free states supported, even if Berrien has made it clear he couldn't care less if the US annexes any part of Canada (that would, after all, be turned into more free states down the line). There's probably still plenty of northerners who still think Louisiana is rightful American territory, and wouldn't mind the Brits being kicked out of Florida. New Spain is, by contrast, weaker than Britain, and far enough away from the populated parts of the US, that no one sees it as a threat - and the people moving into Texas are mostly interested in making another slave state, because they've damn near run out of them in existing US territory.

In short, what reason does your average New Yorker or Ohioan have to support a blatant land grab agains New Spain in the interest of the Deep South aristocracy, while the Brits still aren't going anywhere and could move into the north at any time? Because I'm sure not seeing one.
 
When this is over I feel like the United States will end up without a Pacific coast.
On the other hand, I don't know how the Spanish empire is right now.
 
In short, what reason does your average New Yorker or Ohioan have to support a blatant land grab agains New Spain in the interest of the Deep South aristocracy, while the Brits still aren't going anywhere and could move into the north at any time? Because I'm sure not seeing one.

I agree the North will be livid about this. Though I am uncertain the Brits can really invade the North at this time. As I recall while a stalemate is prevailing currently in the Canadas its still in favor of the union being well embedded in Canadian territory.

Anyway I am puzzled ow Berrien can think this a good idea, at all. How is opening another front with another enemy supposed to help matters? Him dropping everything to try and rescue Fanin and his men would be dumb but its a dumb that makes sense with the man and culture. And his lukewarm reception of laurels won in Canada likewise while unfitting do make sense. This though, it befuddles.

When this is over I feel like the United States will end up without a Pacific coast.

I actually think not, at least not for this war. Astoria will be too useful a barganing chip for matters elsewhere for Britain I think. But with New Spain onside they will be ble to demand more for it from DC. Among other things I epect it will 'shaved' the respecrtive victor taking off the northern and southern border regions weakening the American hold and a warning going forward.

Washington agreeing to such also might send Austin into plotting for his 'white west' project to secede or something down the line. Which the neighbors might even support even if its a crazy Austin running an Astorian republic reasoning is better than the Anericans having a foothold on the Pacific.
 
I can just see future amateur history educators, a la Overly Sarcastic Productions, putting some entertaining words in Brougham's mouth regarding Berrien's latest folly. "Unorthodox display of hubris, but very well!" indeed.
 
I can just see future amateur history educators, a la Overly Sarcastic Productions, putting some entertaining words in Brougham's mouth regarding Berrien's latest folly. "Unorthodox display of hubris, but very well!" indeed.
What was that quote about not interrupting your enemy when he's about to make a mistake?
 
Berrien just picked a fight with New Spain at a time like this.

To quote the mighty Minmax: "This guy's an idiot."
Isn't Spain a. weak and b. allied with the British already, though? And Texas is pretty marginal - a frontier territory of a largely independent viceroyalty. And Texarkana is about as far from Mexican power base as you can get and IIRC in a salient. I think the Americans will be able to break off the northeastern corner of Texas.
 
And an invasion of Florida once more goes the shape of the pear with the American troops really not understanding their foe. I can't imagine that this loss is helping settle the nerves of some elements in the South as the US troops lost to Haitian ones. Whole thing is going to be a painful outburst for the US before long.
 
Regarding the attempted raid/rescue, my hat tips to the author by making it a mix of an affair. It would have been easy to just make it an epic fail. But the Union invaders fought a fairly smart campaign by not getting drawn into battle until it obstructed their advance and being able to learn and adapt to new types of warfare. It also makes the victory of the Haitian volunteers more impressive.

Well done.

Isn't Spain a. weak and b. allied with the British already, though? And Texas is pretty marginal - a frontier territory of a largely independent viceroyalty. And Texarkana is about as far from Mexican power base as you can get and IIRC in a salient. I think the Americans will be able to break off the northeastern corner of Texas.

Its true Spain is past its prime, but its still a great power and one America didn't have to fight at this time when they are hardly carrying all before them. Also New Sain s close and has its own miiotary and will not take this lying down and I don't see Old Spain holding them back. In short Berrien would have trouble picking a worst time.

Fighting in Tejas may be problematic for New Spain, but there are other options. Such as naval assistace to Britain in the Gulf, and perhpas morep otenty sending an expeditionary force to New Orleans. Fresh Nrw SPanish troops could let Wellingtom take the offensive much sooner than exepcted, with the New PSainish hopig to get ncak any territory lsot in Tejas at rth peace cinference by helping Wellington tear Mississippi a new one.
 
The Americans lost the rescue raid but still have a foothold in the north of Florida. Similarly I expect the attack on Texas to face little opposition in the eastern part of the state.

Ultimately America has a lot of troops close at hand to the fronts and the British will have to break their will to fight since they can't very well just take east coast cities willy nilly anymore.
 
The Americans lost the rescue raid but still have a foothold in the north of Florida. Similarly I expect the attack on Texas to face little opposition in the eastern part of the state.

Ultimately America has a lot of troops close at hand to the fronts and the British will have to break their will to fight since they can't very well just take east coast cities willy nilly anymore.

Breaking their will to fight may not be that difficult. Georgia is already in turmoil with race war brewing against the Cherokee ad the chaos from the war just south. And you can bet the defeat of an American force by Haitian soldiers will have the planters soiling themselves at the thought of such troops leaking north through the line to ignite revolution. And form there, unease throughout the South that Berrien can't just ignore.

Because Berrien has reserves certainly; but enough reserves to press the invasion and keep close to home to let his supporters sleep soundly? NDet's nt forget big bad Wellington is in paly ready to tear through the South as did to New England they will fear.

And let's not forget our friends in the North. Berrien was already being called out by Webster to fight the war for America not the South. And not only has American been shamed in the North's eyes by Fanin's criminal enterpise but Jesup's force was sent and lost trying to rescue them compouding that shame. And now Berrien has picked a fight with New Spain that is a clear landgrab for fresh slave territory. "How much longer must the noble North give her treasure and the lives of her son's for the ambitions of slavers?"
 
Great comments, everyone!

Two things I have to emphasize:
• The plans for the filibuster date back to before Berrien took office—I hinted at them here. The (for want of a better word) mastermind behind this scheme is Mirabeau Lamar. Berrien is more of a co-conspirator. (And in his mind, with victory in Louisiana and Florida looking more and more iffy, the South needs to get something out of this war.)
• This filibuster is a private venture. Legally, the U.S. and New Spain are not yet at war, and won't be until either Valentin Gómez Farías persuades the Cortes to declare war or Berrien convinces Congress (especially Samuel Southard and Daniel Webster) to do so.
Isn't Spain a. weak and b. allied with the British already, though? And Texas is pretty marginal - a frontier territory of a largely independent viceroyalty. And Texarkana is about as far from Mexican power base as you can get and IIRC in a salient. I think the Americans will be able to break off the northeastern corner of Texas.
This is not far from what Berrien and the filibusterers are thinking—that Spain is fighting too many wars already (the Philippines, Morocco, Central America) to be able to take part in the war with the U.S. What they don’t realize is that New Spain isn’t involved in any of those wars, and is free to commit its own veteran-rich army to the defense of its borders, although it may take some time for them to reach that far northeast. Even if Tyler had known what Berrien was planning, he couldn’t have warned him, because he himself doesn’t realize just how separate New Spain has become.

This points to the second-biggest problem Berrien has (the biggest being the grandiose unworkability of his plans). The Tertium Quids have never held the executive branch before, so he’s got a Cabinet of amateurs. Some, like Poinsett and Upshur, have turned out well—since Berrien was planning war from the beginning, he put the most capable men he had at the heads of the War and Navy departments. Tyler himself is pretty good at his job, but there are gaps in his knowledge that he doesn’t realize he has.
Regarding the attempted raid/rescue, my hat tips to the author by making it a mix of an affair. It would have been easy to just make it an epic fail. But the Union invaders fought a fairly smart campaign by not getting drawn into battle until it obstructed their advance and being able to learn and adapt to new types of warfare. It also makes the victory of the Haitian volunteers more impressive.

Well done.
Thank you! I figured a good logistics officer like Jesup would be more likely to learn from the enemy and attack in an intelligent way. Berrien didn't do himself any favors by sending this particular general on a mission that ended in capture.
 
Did I miss that plan?
I think it refers to this:
Historians agree that Berrien came into office with the intent of waging war on Britain and Spain. Before his campaign for president, he and his circle of friends had examined maps and drawn up optimistic plans for invasions of Florida, Louisiana, and Texas like an amateur general staff. The Canadas, however, fit into none of his plans.

This was because for him, the goal of strengthening the nation and erasing the sting of 1815 was secondary to the goal of strengthening the Slave Power within the United States. As of 1837, there were thirteen free states, eleven slave states, and one slave state (Missouri) where slavery was effectively moribund. If Florida, Louisiana, and Texas could be added to the Union as slave states, then the slave states would possess a majority, and would be equal in number to the free states even if Missouri abolished slavery entirely—which Missouri was apparently in no hurry to do. Perhaps with Texas secured they could force the use of the Army to subjugate Kyantine, and compel at least a few other territories to accept slavery, thereby keeping the institution alive.
Nothing explicit about enslaving them, but subjugating seems to imply some sinister stuff considering the context.
 
Hmm, well they could rebel in anticipation of Berrien taking action against them? I think it would be a poor choice as Berrien seems to be biting off more than he can chew ad will start choking, but one could not blame them for fearing the worst.

The trouble is we just don't know much about the leadership and public feelings in Kyantine. As intriguing as it is we haven't gotten a good look at it lately to get a gauge on what they might do.

EDIT:

Regarding New Spain and the USA not being officially at war yet. Would t really be a hard sell to new Spain's political class to make it official? The USA's ambitions of dominating the continent are on full display with their ongoing efforts at conquest in the current war. And now they have at the very least allowed this filibuster to occur. Would it be hard to pitch it as better act now than later to curb American expansion. After all if the republic falls it would greatly increases the unions power projection into the gulf and the rest of Tejas

Besides Britain is their ally on paper at least through old Spain; and I doubt the conservatives would like the idea of Catholic Louisiana being brought under a Protestant heel as the Americans are clearly not going to play nice if they return.
 
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Dead of Winter (3)
The chronological order of this timeline has gotten a little scrambled. So here's something I should have posted earlier, plus an update on the Florida front. Next update: more on Florida, plus the Texas filibuster and reactions in New Spain and Kyantine.

We historians have a lot to say about the effect the War of 1837 on the political development of the U.S., Louisiana, Florida, Canada, and to a lesser extent, New Spain. But what about Britain?

The Royal British history books that I’ve read have tended to either dismiss the effect outright or lump it in with the other wars taking place at the time—the Bosnia-Rumelia War, the Persian Civil War. G. L. Smithwick, in his magisterial A History of the the United Kingdom, Volume 6: The 1830s, writes:


Thousands of unemployed men in all parts of the British Isles found employment for a time—some as soldiers in the new regiments, some making ships, weapons and supplies. Their wives and sisters earned money in the new sweatshops where English and Hanoverian wool and Indian cotton were turned into uniforms for these men. This did not restore the prosperity of the long aestal period from 1820 to 1832, but it did much to ameliorate the misery of the Hiemal Period.
At the same time, there was a sense of uncertainty and fear brought about by the wars overseas. But this did nothing to undermine support for Brougham’s government—rather, it endowed that government with popularity it might not otherwise have enjoyed.

None of this is wrong, and it explains why the Whig majority increased by 17 in the ’38 election. Where I believe Smithwick errs is in his assertion two pages later that “the chief concern of all, from Whitehall to the lowest hamlet, was that the Czar should not be permitted to claim Constantinople for his own. Events in North America, the Near and Far East, and the Antipodes, while not irrelevant, were of lesser concern.”

To begin with, a consultation of the historical timeline reveals that “events in the Far East and the Antipodes” did not even begin to become a factor until after the armistice. More importantly, the archives of the Manchester Champion, The Scotsman and the Birmingham Journal tell a different story. For a precise breakdown of the number of column-centimeters devoted to the various wars and the placement of the stories, see Appendix B. Here it is enough to note that the War of 1837 (generally called “the war in America”) received far more coverage than the Bosnia-Rumelia War (generally called “the war in the Balkans”), and the war in Persia only occasionally rated any mention at all.

In terms of prominence, the Bosnia-Rumelia War appeared on the front page of all these papers precisely once from 1836 through 1838—when the war began with the Russian amphibious assault on eastern Thrace. By contrast, all three papers carried not only the American declaration of war on the front page, but also the capture of the St. Lawrence at Fort Niagara (the first time since the war against Napoleon that the Royal Navy had lost a ship in combat), the fall of Toronto (then York), the Battle of Sinepuxent (which very much put Fort Niagara in perspective), the first invasion of Florida, the failed assault on Annapolis (covered more prominently than the successful landings in Maryland and Virginia) and, in the case of The Scotsman, the Battle of Mount Hope. These were all papers of Radical sympathies, of course—indeed, at this point the Champion and Journal were already Chartist—but the far less radical Glasgow Herald covered the wars overseas in a similar way, and the recent opening of the Times archives has made it possible to determine that although their coverage of events overseas was more extensive, the greatest weight was still given to the War of 1837, and particularly to the Navy’s misfortunes (see Appendix B).

It’s easy to understand why. Whatever the importance of Constantinople to British policy, no British territory was at risk in the Balkans, whereas the war in North America represented an assault on two colonies and a protectorate. This meant that although some might question the wisdom of participating in the wars in the Balkans or Persia, only the most doctrinaire pacifists opposed the war in America—to everyone else, it was either righteous or simply necessary. Even the mill owners and workers of the textile industry, who had the greatest motivation to see the war end and trade resume, wished to see these things happen on British terms, not American ones.

More to the point, to the British public it was the Royal Navy that kept the wars overseas and away from their own shores. They could not help being concerned when a foreign power burned or blasted holes in these “wooden walls” with new weapons that no one seemed to have an answer for. Under such circumstances, a cunning and inventive man like Brougham was almost tailor-made for this war—he could be counted on to understand and adapt to the situation.

Of course, Brougham was no soldier, but as Amelia Harrington notes in Charlottean London: “Of the British Prime Ministers who waged the Second Thirty Years War to a partially successful conclusion, nearly all—Viscount Sidmouth, Wiliam Pitt, the Duke of Portland, Spencer Perceval—had found their calling in politics or law. Only Baron Grenville and the Earl of Liverpool had seen even the most perfunctory military service. Thus, Baron Brougham and Vaux’s lack of military experience was seen as no bar.”

And Berrien’s own history as a soldier elicited no admiration at all from his foes. To Whigs, he was the leader of a foreign branch of the same landed aristocracy that they’d had to overcome to end slavery in the Empire. To Tories, he was a demagogue, a glib public speaker with no true talent for statesmanship who had gotten in well over his head and brought his country with him…

Andrea Fessler, The Waves from Sinepuxent


March 20, 1838
Outside Tallawaga
[1], Florida
For the nineteenth day since this siege had begun, General Twiggs cursed it.

Sieges, until now, were something he had only a theoretical knowledge of, and he hadn’t even liked the theory very much. The idea was to keep moving, to keep your enemy off balance, not to give them a chance to regroup or put their own plans into place. Putting a town under siege meant you’d failed to take it the first time and couldn’t think of anything better to do.

Except he had failed to take Tallawaga the first time, and he couldn’t leave it behind him or let the men inside it escape south while he was going for Pilaktaka or St. Augustine. So here he was, and his army with him. He’d done what he could to secure his supply lines along the Suwanee, and the Santa Fe north of here had that little drop underground that he doubted even the Indians could paddle a canoe through, but this was Florida. An attack could come from any direction. He’d learned that the hard way six months ago.

When Twiggs had heard of Jesup’s attack, he’d wondered why he hadn’t been the one to think of it. In this low-lying, soggy land, a man in a canoe could move so much faster than one on horseback. How could a War Department bean-counter like Jesup have been the first American to taken advantage of it?[2] But from what he heard, as fast as they were on the water, they were much slower on land—unlike real dragoons, over land they had to carry their canoes instead of the other way around. Which meant it paid to know every bend in every river and all the shortest paths between them. Which meant that style of warfare was still one that gave the advantage to the defense. And so the attack still failed. It was smart, but it failed. It’d be nice to win something, but maybe now people will shut up about what happened in September.

And this morning… well, maybe he could get the town to surrender without any more fighting. Then he could get back to fighting the real enemy. What was this leader’s name again? Twiggs checked his notes. That can’t be right. That’s not a name, it’s mulligatawney stew made out of letters.

An aide stuck his head in. “Thock… Flock… uh, Mr. Huggy is here to see you, sir.”

So apparently it is a real name after all. “Send him in.”

The man who came in was on the tall side, in his forties. He was wearing one of those turbanlike cotton cloths the Creeks favored with a few long feathers stuck in it, a loose cotton shirt and a buckskin kilt. What looked like the tail of a big swamp cat[3] hung from his belt, dried to leather and starting to shed. For a long time, he just stood there, calm and apparently untroubled, looking at Twiggs and smiling a little, as if waiting for him to respond.

“Please sit down.”

“Thank you, General Twiggs,” he said, very slowly but almost without accent. “By the way, my name is in fact Thlocklo Tustenuggee. If you find that hard to pronounce, you may call me Tiger Tail.” He gestured toward the tail on his belt.

“Well, Mr. Tail, are you the mayor of this town or the commanding officer?”

“Yes.” Tiger Tail smiled more broadly.

“Meaning you occupy both offices?”

“That is indeed what I mean.”

“Seems like a lot of work for one man.”

“At the moment, our people have no other business beyond fighting for our survival. Under these circumstances, there is no real distinction between military and civilian matters.”

“Well, speaking of your survival, you must know your governor, ‘Lord’ Brougham, Her Majesty—they’re all more than happy to fight to the last Creek.”

“Really?” That seemed to get his attention. “How interesting. Please tell me more.”

“If the order came from London to kill the lot of you and make room for white men, you think Morrison would even hesitate?”

“No. But that order has not come. Morrison has dealt justly with us. As did MacCarthy before him, and Raffles before him. It’s a pleasant surprise when a white man keeps his word to us. We can’t help remembering it.”

“They only let you into Florida because they needed somebody willing to fight us. They’re using you, the same as they’re using those black Hessians.”

“Black Hessians? Is that what you’re calling them—the mercenaries from Haiti? The name fits. How many do you suppose Lord Brougham can hire?”

“How am I supposed to know—never mind. That’s not the point. The point is that they don’t care what happens to you.”

“Then should we have become your allies instead, like the Cherokees? How are they faring these days?”

Better than they should. They were all supposed to be dead by now. But Twiggs knew better than to say so. “They still have some slaves. That’s more than you have.”

“Yes. Now we must endure the Negroes watching our backs with muskets in hand, instead of glaring resentfully at our backs with cane-knives in hand. What a tragedy.” Twiggs was starting to suspect that this Tiger Tail was making fun of him.

“You could’ve gone west. Plenty of Indians have done that.”

“We could have, but we didn’t. So here we are in Florida, with our backs to the sea. We can retreat no further. We must fight. As for the nations that chose to go west… I wish them well. But sooner or later they will find themselves in the same predicament.”

“Speaking of predicaments, we’ve got you surrounded and we have reinforcements coming,” said Twiggs. “So here’s my offer. You surrender. Your men lay down their arms and let us occupy the town. Let us treat our wounded there and resupply ourselves from your food stores. In return, I give you my word that your people here will not be harmed.”

Tiger Tail nodded. “That does sound honorable. But here is my difficulty, General Twiggs. I lead here. If I make a promise, Tallawaga will keep it. If I tell my warriors in the town to lay down their arms, that is what they will do. But you are only one general. If you promise that we will not be slaughtered wholesale, or driven from our homes… again… even if you yourself, and the men under your command here, keep that promise—which I doubt you will—what is to stop your President Berrien from giving an order to some other commander, a month or a year from now, to do those very things to us?”

Nothing. Because you’re supposed to die. “If you don’t trust me to do what I say I’ll do, then why the Sam Hill did you ever agree to this parley in the first place? What was the point?”

“The point,” said Tustenuggee, speaking slower than ever, “is that every moment that we devote to speaking… my warriors may spend resting. Eating. And recovering their strength. Every moment, Osceola comes closer. As do Erskine and Morrison himself. And by now you will have heard… that Cole and FitzGerald are coming up the coast. From Tocobaga. They may have already reached the town of Suwanee by now.”

“Do I need to go into what’s likely to happen to you—women and children and all—when we take your town?”

“Not at all. We know exactly what your mercy looks like. So you see… there is nothing you can threaten us with that you wouldn’t do anyway.”


[1] OTL Gainesville
[2] If you’re curious, the reason is that it takes a logistics expert to come up with that many canoes in a reasonable amount of time.
[3] A Florida panther.
 
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Tustenuggee has a good head on his shoulders alright and knows exactly what's up. Here's hoping that he manages to outlast the Americans and continue to act as a leader. With luck, Florida still has a few more humbling experiences ready for the US army.
 
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