REDUX: Place In The Sun: What If Italy Joined The Central Powers?

[Drizzt]

Huh, interesting here. Didn't think of the point with the seige of Nice being better. But yeah, all the French in the area can do is counterattack. Not sure how far the Italians can spread the line. I think they have like 25 divisions here? Not sure how thinly they can spread even with trenches to keep the blockade up. They can't support immense amounts of troops and artillery thanks to the mountains - they can only improve the road network so much. So they'll be limited in how many troops they can support by how many supplies they can bring in. Heavy artillery can only do so much when they can't get the hundreds of thousands of shells in.

Well it's not like they have to literally surround the city like Caesar at Alesia. The key is to block all roads and railroads. As long as that is accomplished no supplies can come in and Nice is effectively cut of even if they leave huge swathes of forest, hills, etc unoccupied.
Sure eventually defenders will be able to escape via those routes , but only a trickle on foot or horse. No trucks, wagons or railcars will get out with equipment, artillery and other heavy weapons, wounded, motor vehicles, etc all left behind.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

That's a very interesting point overall, cause it's not only the Italians, but also the Germans. Between them they make a big chunk of the American populace, and if anything like the Easter Rising happens in ITTL, you also have to factor in the anti-British Irish community.

German-Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, those of Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Baltic, even Scandinavian and Ukrainian, descent all favour the Central Powers.

That’s a good point - did the Easter Rising occur ITTL? The conditions that led to it don’t seem like they’d have been butterflied

The Easter Rising occurred more or less the same as OTL. Ireland will spend the rest of the war under martial law. The key difference is that Britain is going to be far more paranoid about security in the postwar environment and so will not be granting Ireland independence in 1922 for fear that the Central Powers will turn it into a base from which to attack the home island. Ethnic and religious strife is going to last until Britain gives up and lets the island go. Imagine the Troubles, but spread out over all of Ireland and with Germany far more supportive of unrest than the Soviets ever were.

That makes me wonder what the Pope thinks of all this. On the grounds of his claims in Latium he might feel tempted to speak out against Italy, but on the other hands this would be incredibly risky to his safety. France might try and offer him a restored Papal State if he joins them but that would be foolish to take up. Plus on top of this the Central Powers contain most of the major Catholic and Catholic-adjacent (Germany having a huge Catholic population) in Europe and this could easily become a quest to uphold thr values of the "holy" system of monarchy and opposing secularism and liberalism.

Papal support could be an important factor in Irish sympathy as well as the reaction of the Latin American world

-Catholics in neutral countries definitely tend to favour the Central Powers. German propaganda doesn't explicitly cater to Catholics, but people have a way of drawing connections between French secularism and British ties to Freemasonry on the one hand, and their failures in the war thus far. The great irony is that, as you mentioned, the Papacy loathed the Italian state and the House of Savoy because both were led by Masons, to the point where, if I remember correctly, Pius IX declared voting in Italian civil elections a mortal sin (though Benedict XV took a softer line, even becoming an Italian citizen).

-Benedict XV has still tried to mediate between both sides and neither are listening, though I could see him cooperating with Emperor Karl come November 1916. In the meantime, there is still the 1917 Code of Canon Law to promulgate. The real question, of course, is whether or not the Apparitions at Fatima will happen ITTL- they happened after OTL's February Revolution, but before the Bolsheviks took over and began "spreading the errors of Russia". Catholics the world over viewed the event as foreshadowing the Bolshevik takeover and made it the symbol of anti-Communist resistance (as when Polish troops credited the Virgin Mary for 1920's "Miracle on the Vistula"). If the Bolsheviks don't come to power here, or if their uprising is defeated, the cult of Fatima simply won't be a part of Catholicism- the cultural effects of which will be massive.

-Central America is tied to the US, and by extension, neutral. None of the South American states have any desire to jump in the war, although Argentina is pro-Entente because of its commercial links to the UK.

I am really curious if the peace treaty will look like in the original version of this story or not. I think that a lot of it will depend on the domestic situation in Germany when the war ends. A "natural border" argument to the Meusse seems likely, but I could also see them taking Verdun and Sedan, the two big sites of German victories.

On the plus side fkr the Alsatians, annexation like those would basically necessitate splitting Alsace-Lorraine into Alsatian and Lorraniane states, which will spell good things for their autonomy movements.

Provisionally, I'm thinking:

• Moving the border to the Meuse, everything east of which gets annexed to Prussia
• Luxembourg becomes a federal subject
• Annexation of Namur, Mezieres, Verdun, and Neufchateau on the western bank of the river
• Annexing the part of Lorraine not taken in 1871, joining it to the Imperial Trust Territory of Alsace-Lorraine

Wasn't Spain supposed to become the Italian middleman to bypass the blockade?

The 1907 Cartagena Pact actually implied they would join the Entente if Italy honoured its Triple Alliance commitments. That hasn't happened- no one in Spain wants to join a war they don't think they can win- and so they're trading with both sides. Britain isn't thrilled with them for not joining up as promised, but they're taking what they can get.

Well that's the conclusion that historians ITTL seems to have drawn - Either Nice, or Verdun could be held, but not both.

Unfortunately for the French, the prevailing mentality at this time is that no French soil is to be given up without a fight.

It's like Sun Tzu said, he who seeks to defends everything defends nothing.

This is exactly right.

Huh, interesting here. Didn't think of the point with the seige of Nice being better. But yeah, all the French in the area can do is counterattack. Not sure how far the Italians can spread the line. I think they have like 25 divisions here? Not sure how thinly they can spread even with trenches to keep the blockade up. They can't support immense amounts of troops and artillery thanks to the mountains - they can only improve the road network so much. So they'll be limited in how many troops they can support by how many supplies they can bring in. Heavy artillery can only do so much when they can't get the hundreds of thousands of shells in.

The Italians don't have Nice completely surrounded. Supplies can still get in from the west, and the focus for the summer will be cutting those arteries off one by one.

Well it's not like they have to literally surround the city like Caesar at Alesia. The key is to block all roads and railroads. As long as that is accomplished no supplies can come in and Nice is effectively cut of even if they leave huge swathes of forest, hills, etc unoccupied.
Sure eventually defenders will be able to escape via those routes , but only a trickle on foot or horse. No trucks, wagons or railcars will get out with equipment, artillery and other heavy weapons, wounded, motor vehicles, etc all left behind.

Exactly right. Nice isn't going to last long when it's the bottom priority for France.

 

[Mildtryth]

Provisionally, I'm thinking:

• Moving the border to the Meuse, everything east of which gets annexed to Prussia
• Luxembourg becomes a federal subject
• Annexation of Namur, Mezieres, Verdun, and Neufchateau on the western bank of the river
• Annexing the part of Lorraine not taken in 1871, joining it to the Imperial Trust Territory of Alsace-Lorraine

Speaking of Namur, what happens to Belgium?

 

[prester.john208]

Speaking of Namur, what happens to Belgium?

How about Luxemburg?

 

[KaiserKatze]

Provisionally, I'm thinking:

• Moving the border to the Meuse, everything east of which gets annexed to Prussia
• Luxembourg becomes a federal subject
• Annexation of Namur, Mezieres, Verdun, and Neufchateau on the western bank of the river
• Annexing the part of Lorraine not taken in 1871, joining it to the Imperial Trust Territory of Alsace-Lorraine

All of that sounds really logical. Only possible addition I might suggest is Belfort, a previous part of Alsace spared the 1871 annexation for its overwhelmingly French character, to "reunify" Alsace under German rule

 

[Winterwolf1]

Speaking of Namur, what happens to Belgium?

Breaked up, german puppet state, partly annexed... A bit like the Tallleyrand plan if you will, only with only german annexed greater Luxemburg and a greater flamish state alongside another wallon puppet state.

A few possible historical grounds for an greater Luxemburg:

A possible line between a flamish and wallon state without a greater Luxemburg:

 

[prester.john208]

Breaked up, german puppet state, partly annexed... A bit like the Tallleyrand plan if you will, only with only german annexed greater Luxemburg and a greater flamish state alongside another wallon puppet state.

A few possible historical grounds for an greater Luxemburg:
View attachment 879165View attachment 879163View attachment 879167

A possible line between a flamish and wallon state without a greater Luxemburg:
View attachment 879166

That could hold a lot of pickled herring.

 

[Wedgekree]

Looking forwards to the next bit. I'm sure what happens at Nice won't be very nice at all.

 

[Gabingston]

Looking forwards to the next bit. I'm sure what happens at Nice won't be very nice at all.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

Chapter XXIX​

The Nivelle Offensive​

Even more so than the German seizure of Verdun, the Nivelle Offensive must rank as the paramount turning point of the Great War. France's strategic situation in June 1916 was serious but not dire. Had the Army pulled back from the wreckage of Verdun and spent the summer constructing a defensive line to contain the Germans, stalemate could have resumed. In hindsight, France most likely lost her chance to defeat the Germans once Italy opened a second front, but combined, she and Britain could still have forced a draw. The loss of Verdun was a blow to propaganda and morale, but it did not affect the state's physical capability to make war. Had the politicians and generals thought with reason instead of emotion, they would have realised that France could live without Verdun, just as she lived without the northern fifth of her land. Her Army remained intact and the people were united behind the war effort: this was enough to carry on.

Robert Nivelle threw it all away and turned difficulties into disasters which overwhelmed la Nation with frightening speed. For this, he has gone down in the history books as the worst incompetent in the war, if not in the entire history of France. Joffre, Petain, Briand, and every postwar government agreed that had Nivelle executed his offensive properly- or better yet, listened to Philippe Petain when he said it could not be done, something that, as the man on the scene, he should have known better than anyone- then France could have avoided every calamity which befell it in the Twentieth Century. They exaggerated the scope of the consequences for political effect, but the basic criticism was sound. More than any other Great War general, Robert Nivelle deserves every ounce of blame for dashing his country's future against enemy bullets.

Nivelle found a dire situation at his first morning behind Philippe Petain's old desk. As the fourth week in May opened, the Second Army- now only a week away from Lucien Chanaris' illegal surrender- was pinned against the west bank of the Meuse. To the east, on what was to become Nivelle's right, the east bank of the river lay in German hands as far as La Creue, an estuary of the Meuse running east-west instead of north-south. On the west bank, the German advance stretched down to the villages of L'empire-aux-Bois and Souhesemes: these lay approximately six miles north of Nivelle's headquarters at Bar-le-Duc, and had left Verdun cut off from supplies during the siege. Three months of combat had destroyed the French Second Army and the reserves drip-fed to keep it going. Nivelle had requisitioned twelve divisions from Italy with which to lift the siege, but Joffre made clear that he could spare nothing else- the country's manpower problems were just too severe.

Whatever Nivelle wanted to do, he would have to do with those twelve divisions- he was, unfortunately, about to find out how little they were really worth.

The Germans had no intention of driving deeper into Eastern France while the siege continued and halted their advance at the two villages for a simple reason: a wall of hills, some as many as three hundred feet above sea-level, stood behind L'empire-aux-Bois. They were too far south to fire into the city proper, and Germany held them only because they were easily defensible, and because Falkenhayn sensed they would be extremely useful if the French ever tried to break the siege. Only a few sentries and light artillery pieces held the hills at the end of May, but Falkenhayn's instincts were correct- two months later, fortified by over a hundred artillery pieces and two dozen divisions, they would become the killing grounds where the French Army had its back broken.

Prime Minister Aristide Briand, War Minister Pierre Roques, and Joffre all had mixed feelings about Nivelle's coming counteroffensive. On the one hand, all three recognised France's need to present the battle as a draw. People were already referring to Verdun simply as "the crucible"- the greatest battle in France's history, on equal footing with Austerlitz and Waterloo, and even more brutal. A counterattack which let at least some survivors of the Second Army escape would let them portray the battle as an example of French heroism saving the day against German brute force- the sort of tale which would keep the men in the trenches content and preserve their jobs. Joffre in particular had much to lose: he had replaced Nivelle with Petain to keep the War Minister from making him the scapegoat for defeat, and even worked with Nivelle to plan the counteroffensive. This was Joffre's project as much as Nivelle's, and if it failed, his career was just as dead. Of course, failure might bring Briand's fury down on Roques- and the men in Parliament could turn out the Prime Minister just as easily. Yet everyone knew how long the odds were- and that defeat would destroy them all. Sitting still and letting Falkenhayn strike again was not an option, though. If they hit him hard, they might just win the day.

Lucien Chanaris wrecked Nivelle's plans by taking the purpose of the offensive with him into captivity on May 29th. The men who might have broken out and linked up with Nivelle's force, giving him the semblance of victory, were now gone, and the wreckage of Verdun lay in German hands. Joffre initially feared for his job, but a telephone call with Roques that night reassured him- Chanaris was a mutineer who deserved to be shot, the War Minister said, but nobody else was responsible for his actions. Of course, with the city gone, there was nothing more to be had on the banks of the Meuse. Roques explained that he had been in contact with Philippe Petain and Edouard de Castlenau, both of whom agreed that the only thing to do was cut their losses and prepare to defend Bar-le-Duc. Roques entrusted Joffre with explaining this to Nivelle, as well as making clear that it was not a reflection on his command and would not blight his career; Petain had even asked the War Minister to pass on reassurances that he would have made the same call. Roques hung up and Joffre got in his command car for his subordinate's headquarters. This would not be pleasant, but it would not take long.

Robert Nivelle pushed back. He was as furious as anyone at Chanaris' surrender- even showing Joffre the "Merde!" telegram as an example of what "certain scoundrels are capable of"- but saw it as a setback, not a final defeat. Thinking on his feet, Nivelle described how the offensive could still go ahead. Their plan had never envisaged actually breaking into Verdun, he reminded Joffre, but advancing to a point where the remnants of the Second Army could break out, and then escorting them back to safety. Could not the twelve divisions earmarked for such a mission instead secure some intermediate point, from which a larger force could liberate Verdun during the summer or autumn? Joffre replied that he did not know and would need to analyse what the Germans had on hand, as well as get the War Minister's approval. Nivelle replied that as supreme commander of all French forces, Joffre could do as he pleased. That was true, he said, but Verdun had weakened both la Nation's strength and his own reputation. If he went ahead with the modified counterattack and it failed, it would destroy his country's war effort. Doing so after the War Minister had told him not to would verge on criminal disobedience.

Nivelle would not take no for an answer. He had been brought in to do a job, something the surrender of Verdun did not change. Rather than continue to argue with Joffre- as stubborn a man as ever served his country- he got on a train for Paris and visited the War Minister in his office, taking a Duxieme Bureau agent with him. This man presented Roques with photographs and faulty "assessments" which suggested the Germans were pulling back- in part from a need to replace their exhausted forces in the sector, in part to send reserves to stop the British at Ypres. A limited offensive with ten or twelve divisions, this report suggested, could recapture the hills behind L'empire-aux-Bois, forcing inexperienced German divisions to launch a costly counteroffensive. Nivelle understood how scarce manpower was, but was confident that artillery supremacy would let him overwhelm the initial German defenders and inflict massive casualties on the men sent to retake the position. He also promised that if the high ground did not fall, or if French troops did not achieve "a comparable objective" within two days, he would abort the offensive to minimise casualties.

At best, Nivelle said, the offensive would isolate the Germans in Verdun, paving the way for its liberation in the late summer or autumn, and at worst, it would distract the Germans from Britain's offensive in Ypres. Sir Douglas Haig's initial reports were promising and there seemed to be a real chance of a breakthrough: something Nivelle wanted to do all in his power to make happen.

Roques acknowledged the logic behind Nivelle's proposal before asking the obvious question: why was Nivelle bringing this proposal to him, the War Minister, and not Petain at Army Group Centre, or Joffre? That would have stopped a lesser man cold, but Nivelle had a reply ready. Joffre, the highest-ranking man in the French Army, had been non-commital and even told him to get the War Minister's approval. Since Nivelle was following his instructions, Petain did not enter into the chain of command. With his superior's blessing, the only thing Nivelle needed was for Roques to sign off. The War Minister considered, then nodded. He had no love for Joffre or Petain, even claiming in his memoirs that had he been in command at Verdun, the city would not have fallen. Had Joffre not made Petain the scapegoat for losing Verdun, he would have taken his job. Roques' desire to score some sort of victory, plus his genuine confidence that Nivelle would outperform his predecessor, balanced out his caution. The War Minister gave his written approval for the offensive to go ahead, and drafted one telegram to Briand and another to Sir Douglas Haig outlining the plan- all of which gave his detractors plenty of material to blame him when the offensive failed, ending his career alongside Nivelle's. Briand telephoned within the hour to give his approval: the Nivelle Offensive was now ready to launch.

Joffre was furious at having been overruled by "political men to whom war is a game", but that was nothing new. Aside from the fear that the offensive would fail, Nivelle going over his head and interpreting his ambiguity as consent stung. When interrogated after the war, Joffre always pushed blame for the catastrophe onto his subordinate for rushing the offensive without approval. Nivelle had been dreaming of glory, of being the man who righted the catastrophe of Verdun, while he sought only to do his job.

Joseph Joffre, Pierre Roques, and Aristide Briand should have stopped the Nivelle Offensive long before Erich von Falkenhayn did.

A week later, twelve divisions worth of artillery opened fire on L'empire-aux-Bois and Nixeville to the west. High explosives fell out of the sky for two days, serving mainly to throw rock fragments around and alert Falkenhayn as to where the blow would fall. He pulled all but a skeleton crew out of the two towns and brought his own guns up onto the high ground under cover of darkness. For the moment, they remained silent, waiting for the French infantry to come forward, relying on their elevation to shield them from fire. German intelligence overestimated Nivelle's force at fifteen divisions, and so Falkenhayn sent twenty: four to hold the ridge, ten to hold the surrounding villages, and six in reserve. Such preparations would prove excessive.

One hundred and fifty thousand Frenchmen, the last appreciable reserve their country had on hand, climbed out of their dugouts at dawn on June 15th. All had heard horror stories of what Verdun was like, and few had ever fought the Germans before. Unlike Petain, Nivelle's relationship with the frontline soldiers was strained. Whereas Petain had visited the trenches and made an effort to connect with the men, Nivelle remained at his command post, stressing parade-ground discipline as a means to "control the fear of the fighting man". More than a few of the huddled men sensed that something was wrong- there was no way only twelve divisions could crack the enemy at his strongest point. Most were aware of Nivelle's promise to suspend the offensive if it had not succeeded in two days, and resolved to keep their heads down and rely on German strength to save their lives.

One artillery sergeant, whose battery of Brandenburgers had fought through the siege of Verdun, later likened the Nivelle Offensive to "a weekend's hunting expedition". Light howitzers and mortars stood atop the main hill, along with machine-gun and rifle pits, while a second position west of Regret housed heavier guns which were incapable of firing the short distances needed to hit the enemy. Against all this, the sergeant wrote home, "our men holding the villages seemed to be afterthoughts, they might as well have been observers to the greatest slaughter in this war." Bullets, high explosives, and gas rained down on the Frenchmen, who had none of the natural cover to which they'd grown accustomed in the Alps- and they soon discovered that the Germans were not only better shots than the Italians, they had more of everything.

In the west, intense fire halted the drive towards Nixeville by mid-afternoon: the three divisions had taken over fifty percent casualties and had to fall back- as the men did so, a German brigade fell on them from Biercourt, all but turning defeat into rout. The brigade's commander spoke with divisional headquarters that night, and division staff sent a telegram to the corps commander the next morning, explaining that with enough pressure, the French might crack in this sector. If the division broke through west of Nixeville, it could advance south and wheel east to cut off enemy forces in L'empire-aux-Bois, after which the battle would be as good as won. The major-general agreed and shifted two of his reserve divisions to Biercourt that night: they would go into battle the following morning.

The drive against L'empire-aux-Bois had made no progress on the first day: French troops had barely set foot in the village and had not broken the frontline German trenches. Once it became clear where the French were attacking, Sixth Army staff- now based in the same building where Guillaumat and Balfourier had directed the defence of Verdun- sent reinforcements down the Meuse and along the road south of the city, giving the defenders a well-needed reprieve. Quartermasters had spent the last three weeks organising supplies left over from the great siege; they now emptied these new depots and sent everything they could south. French hopes that les Boches would run out of shells proved futile- the defensive barrage kept up its pace throughout the day. Dusk forced the French to entrench, hoping only to survive the next day, after which Nivelle would have no choice but to follow his word and let them go in peace.

June 16th proved no better. After a few hours of sleep in a foxhole, officers roused les poilus awake and sent them after it- they, of course, had to hold the rear and get a bigger picture of developments. No one dreamt of taking the village by this point: even with their ant's-eye view of the fighting, they could see how outnumbered they were. All that was left to do was keep fighting and wait for the officers to reach the same conclusion, if they ever did. Rumours flew that the war was almost over, that the men in Paris were searching for a way out and this was Nivelle's last-ditch attempt to show them that he could still bring victory. Were they dying, not in service to France, but in service to one man's vision of himself? If Robert Nivelle were a better general, would they be sitting in dugouts, waiting to inflict this punishment on the Germans? Or if the top brass and the Government knew what they were doing, would they be going home, the war over one way or another? Was all of this as necessary as everyone made it out to be, especially when the propagandists seemed to be the ones who'd never heard a bullet crack past their ear? It was enough to make every man shudder. They were being betrayed by the people they trusted most.

The coup de grace fell at noon, as the Germans launched their breakout from Nixeville. The original division which had chased the French away yesterday let the attack, with two more divisions pulled from the reserve behind it. Just as the division commander had predicted, French resistance was slight and within an hour, the Germans were roaming free behind the lines. Vadelaincourt fell before dusk, and the three divisions fell on Souilly and Senoncourt- the rear area, thought to be safe, for the attack on L'empire-aux-Bois. Small supply dumps, command posts, and field hospitals fell into German hands, all but decapitating the Nivelle Offensive. At dusk, German messengers approached the French under flag of truce from the south. That small detail proved to the men in the trenches that their rear area was gone and that they were sealed in a pocket from which they could not escape. The German colonel leading the delegation proposed a surrender, informing the French that all of their senior officers had been captured when the rear area fell. In effect, he went on, the battalion and company commanders on the scene were the only legitimate authority over their men short of Nivelle himself. He told the junior officers that he had fought through Verdun from the first day, and before that had served in Champagne and the great race to the sea of autumn 1914. Along the way, he had seen good friends be killed, often before his very eyes, and seen good men under his command ground to nothing. When the war started, he had been "a clear-eyed captain", now he was a colonel, "too young on the outside for the office and responsibility, but too old on the inside to want anything to do with this war." Lucien Chanaris had saved his men, the colonel went on, and it was only right that the French captains and majors be allowed to do the same here. They debated for a few minutes before shaking their heads. Lucien Chanaris had betrayed France, and this offensive was too important to fail. General Nivelle would want them to fight on, just as Guillaumat and Balfourier had, and fight on they would, trusting in the strength and spirit of the French poilu.

Without realising it, that colonel had just sparked the great mutinies which would bring the French Army to its knees. As the junior officers debated what to do, the men standing around stepped forward, swinging rifles and bayonets. The German soldiers raised their weapons, but they were not the target. Worn out, their faces and beards grimy, their eyes exhausted from having seen too much, the men who'd fought this war had found a way out and were damned if they'd let it go. As they circled their officers, rifles loaded and hate in their eyes, a burly conscript from Paris walked up to the German colonel and gave him a parade-ground salute. "Nous acceptons". He walked up to his captain- a small man full of instructions which never seemed to work and a love of beatings and abuse, but who'd never wielded a gun other than his sidearm, and then only against a plump pig stolen from the locals- and picked him up by his collar, somehow still clean despite the chaos. The private pulled the captain's pistol off his belt and waved it in his face. "N'est-ce pas, eh? Answer me, damn you, answer me!"

The captain shook his head, face pale. "You'll regret this, all right. I don't know what to tell you other than, if you think les Boches will treat you fairly, you deserve whatever's coming to you."

"Je ne sais pas." The private shrugged. "Maybe you are right, but whatever they do to me, it couldn't be worse than what you lot have." A single blast from the sidearm blew the captain's brains out. The other French soldiers opened fire- some of the officers tried to shoot back but it was hopeless, within seconds every man in a fancy uniform, even the ones who'd fought alongside their men and tried to protect them, was betrayed, dead, and gone. The results looked no different from any other heap of corpses stacked up along the Western Front- just men whom the great calamity had chewed up and spat out.

These men had found a way- perhaps the only way- out. Millions more would follow in their footsteps throughout the summer. France would suffer for their actions, but the French people would be made free. Robert Nivelle, unlike so many of his fellow officers, would survive what was about to come, but he would go down in history as the man who brought the calamity of defeat on his homeland. Defeat was now inevitable, the only question was who could survive. France- and the whole Entente- was bleeding to death.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

And thus concludes Part III of the TL! The butterfly effect is now picking up steam, as despite the best efforts of Petain and others, the Mutinies are going to break the cohesion of the French Army, leaving it unable to perform when 1917 comes around- meanwhile, the Russians are finally going to get some attention, as more and more of their men opt to follow the French example and bow out of the war.

A spectre is haunting this TL: the spectre of revolution.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

How about Luxemburg?

Cue cries of "Coitus, we forgot the Balkans!" throughout Vienna and Budapest when they realise how little everyone down there loves them.
The power of pickled herring will get the Central Powers through the British blockade.

 

[Dragonboy]

Amazing chapter! Love it when France suffers!

Hoping that the austrians make the russians bleed!

 

[Uff Da the optimist]

This chapter was riveting! What is the tally of casualties ITTL v OTL?

I love the foreboding about France later in the 20th century. Me thinks somebody’s gonna go red

 

[weasel_airlift]

And thus concludes Part III of the TL! The butterfly effect is now picking up steam, as despite the best efforts of Petain and others, the Mutinies are going to break the cohesion of the French Army, leaving it unable to perform when 1917 comes around- meanwhile, the Russians are finally going to get some attention, as more and more of their men opt to follow the French example and bow out of the war.

A spectre is haunting this TL: the spectre of revolution.

Fantastic chapter. Looks like the upper leadership in Paris might have an appointment with Monsieur Guillotine...

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

Fantastic chapter. Looks like the upper leadership in Paris might have an appointment with Monsieur Guillotine...

They just might…

 

[Knightmare]

The Easter Rising occurred more or less the same as OTL. Ireland will spend the rest of the war under martial law. The key difference is that Britain is going to be far more paranoid about security in the postwar environment and so will not be granting Ireland independence in 1922 for fear that the Central Powers will turn it into a base from which to attack the home island. Ethnic and religious strife is going to last until Britain gives up and lets the island go. Imagine the Troubles, but spread out over all of Ireland and with Germany far more supportive of unrest than the Soviets ever were.

Don't forget the Irish-American Lobby, which is gonna be pissed as hell now.

Wonder if they use any contacts with the German-American lobby to backdoor connect with Germany?

Ooooh, update

And damn, mutiny is properly kicking off, already worse then in RL.

 

[1962strat]

I do wonder about how is it gonna be for these POWs. What can they have expect from German captivity? Will they be able to safely return to France? And what's gonna Germany do with the ones that refuse to return for fear of of being tried?

 

[weasel_airlift]

I do wonder about how is it gonna be for these POWs. What can they have expect from German captivity? Will they be able to safely return to France? And what's gonna Germany do with the ones that refuse to return for fear of of being tried?

Well, food might be short and/or monotonous, but no one will be shooting at you. More food is probably making it to Germany, with the US remaining non-belligerent, however I imagine that everyone is still feeling the pinch of hunger, and the POWs won't be exempt from that.

At least however, no one is shooting at you. Per what happens to POWs that don't want to return to France, with what happened to the French colonel earlier, I imagine that they'd be allowed to stay in Germany or emigrate to the US. If the US allows it, I could see them accepting the majority of them. Germany might want to divide them into penny packets to keep French enclaves form forming, if they decide to stay

 

[1962strat]

At least however, no one is shooting at you. Per what happens to POWs that don't want to return to France, with what happened to the French colonel earlier, I imagine that they'd be allowed to stay in Germany or emigrate to the US. If the US allows it, I could see them accepting the majority of them. Germany might want to divide them into penny packets to keep French enclaves form forming, if they decide to stay

Well, a Colonel is probably afforded much more thought than your average conscript, so I don't think we can take that as a standard.

As for enclaves, the easy solution could always be to put them far from the border. A small french speaking community in Bavaria or Brandenburg is not a problem.