Place In the Sun: What If Italy Joined the Central Powers? (1.0)

Reader mode
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

Curious...

...republicans and monarchists, liberals and conservatives, all fighting for power in St. Petersburg, determined to figuratively rip each other's guts out. And yet...where are the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks? Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin among others?
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

Jaenera Targaryen said:
Curious...

...republicans and monarchists, liberals and conservatives, all fighting for power in St. Petersburg, determined to figuratively rip each other's guts out. And yet...where are the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks? Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin among others?
Click to expand...
In the next update (which, chronologically speaking, occurs simultaneously to this one)
Thomas_Wellesley said:
I may be misremembering, but didn't Lenin die a while ago?
Click to expand...
Nope! He's alive and well, plotting his revenge...
 
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
In the next update (which, chronologically speaking, occurs simultaneously to this one)

Nope! He's alive and well, plotting his revenge...
Click to expand...
I don't know why, but I strangely find myself rooting for a Communist/Soviet victory in the future. It probably helps that Anastasia - who, let's be honest, is usually the first person to come to mind when the name 'Romanov' gets brought up - is safe from her OTL fate, but still...
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

Jaenera Targaryen said:
I don't know why, but I strangely find myself rooting for a Communist/Soviet victory in the future. It probably helps that Anastasia - who, let's be honest, is usually the first person to come to mind when the name 'Romanov' gets brought up - is safe from her OTL fate, but still...
Click to expand...
Yeah. I remember learning about her fate as a kid- my mum had a Kindle novel about her which I read several times over- and I always thought it rather sad what happened to the girls. One of the bright spots of this TL, really...

We will have to see if the Revolution goes your way or not- we're about a year removed from the sparks flying ITTL, maybe three weeks IRL. Exam season will buy the Romanov regime at least some time.... ;)
 
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

That, and Prince Lvov really comes off as...unlikeable, ITTL. He's not...slimy, or evil, he's just...well, a politician. More so than other historical figures present...
 

SkywalkerT65

Not to be nitpicky, but presuming Michael and Nicky (and their lines) are off the throne...wouldn’t The Romanov Musical Chairs pass off to Kirill as it did OTL? Unless I’m misremembering, Russia had no system for a Tsarina taking the throne like that (hence why Alexi was so important, before and after his birth...to secure the succession instead of having to change things to crown one of the girls).

It’s not a big deal, but it did strike me as a bit odd.
 

TGW

Wow.

....Just, wow.

I make no particular claim to understanding how plausible all of this is as a historical idea. I've never really engaged with stories and 'What If's?' purely as a 'This is what would happen, one hundred percent'. My understanding of the Russian Revolution or, to be more exact the events of Russia from the 10's to the late 20's, came from a somewhat flawed and limited examination in a British Comprehensive system, so I can't speak to the likelihood or unlikelihood of any of this. But purely as a dramatic piece? This was fantastic to read.

All that suffering, all that backsliding, all that compromise and stress and hassle, and...bang. There goes Tsar Michael. In the end, it didn't matter that he threw his brother under the bus. Didn't matter how hard he wanted to create a stronger system, be that tinged with some viewpoints I don't agree with. Didn't matter how many concessions he made to people who wished him dead. All of that led to him burning to death on a day where he hoped to make things better. I'm not a monarchist or anything like that, but it is depressing watching him die as he did. Truth be told, I have no idea where either Russia or the rest of the world goes with this, but I'm interested.

Oh, and incidentally, as to your point made a few chapters ago in a footnote regarding Parliamentary systems? I assure you that if it looks like they fall apart at a moment's notice from the outside, from the inside it feels like we're trapped in a perpetual slow motion train-crash. It is long and tedious and it's obvious what's going to happen and yet there's nothing you can do to really stop it. A fun thought for the new week!
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

SkywalkerT65 said:
Not to be nitpicky, but presuming Michael and Nicky (and their lines) are off the throne...wouldn’t The Romanov Musical Chairs pass off to Kirill as it did OTL? Unless I’m misremembering, Russia had no system for a Tsarina taking the throne like that (hence why Alexi was so important, before and after his birth...to secure the succession instead of having to change things to crown one of the girls).

It’s not a big deal, but it did strike me as a bit odd.
Click to expand...
I considered this, and it certainly could've, but that's not how I read the Russian Constitution. (I did my homework for Michael's reforms and remember noting this). According to Article 30:
When the last male issue of the Emperor's sons is extinct, succession remains in the same branch, but in the female issue of the last reigning Emperor, as being nearest to the Throne, and therein it follows the same order, with preference to a male over the female person; but the female person from whom this right directly proceeds never loses this right.
Click to expand...
This would seem to indicate that Xenia, as a daughter of Tsar Alexander III, would be closer to the throne than Kiril, merely a cousin of Nicholas'. But you could be right though.
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

TGW said:
Wow.

....Just, wow.

I make no particular claim to understanding how plausible all of this is as a historical idea. I've never really engaged with stories and 'What If's?' purely as a 'This is what would happen, one hundred percent'. My understanding of the Russian Revolution or, to be more exact the events of Russia from the 10's to the late 20's, came from a somewhat flawed and limited examination in a British Comprehensive system, so I can't speak to the likelihood or unlikelihood of any of this. But purely as a dramatic piece? This was fantastic to read.

All that suffering, all that backsliding, all that compromise and stress and hassle, and...bang. There goes Tsar Michael. In the end, it didn't matter that he threw his brother under the bus. Didn't matter how hard he wanted to create a stronger system, be that tinged with some viewpoints I don't agree with. Didn't matter how many concessions he made to people who wished him dead. All of that led to him burning to death on a day where he hoped to make things better. I'm not a monarchist or anything like that, but it is depressing watching him die as he did. Truth be told, I have no idea where either Russia or the rest of the world goes with this, but I'm interested.

Oh, and incidentally, as to your point made a few chapters ago in a footnote regarding Parliamentary systems? I assure you that if it looks like they fall apart at a moment's notice from the outside, from the inside it feels like we're trapped in a perpetual slow motion train-crash. It is long and tedious and it's obvious what's going to happen and yet there's nothing you can do to really stop it. A fun thought for the new week!
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the kind words! I'm glad you liked it and hope you stick around. Certainly, I did my utmost to make Tsar Michael a sympathetic character. He didn't really deserve his fate and acted with the best of intentions... but we know which road is paved with those, eh?

I'd never considered the nuances of parliamentary politics in those terms (which reminds me, I need to collapse the Ernst von Heydebrand government soon.....). As an American, I think of these things as rather cut-and-dried and find that that's a source of stability. British politics (I assume you write from somewhere in the UK) has always intrigued me though.
 

wietze

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
Thank you very much for the kind words! I'm glad you liked it and hope you stick around. Certainly, I did my utmost to make Tsar Michael a sympathetic character. He didn't really deserve his fate and acted with the best of intentions... but we know which road is paved with those, eh?

I'd never considered the nuances of parliamentary politics in those terms (which reminds me, I need to collapse the Ernst von Heydebrand government soon.....). As an American, I think of these things as rather cut-and-dried and find that that's a source of stability. British politics (I assume you write from somewhere in the UK) has always intrigued me though.
Click to expand...
parliamentary systems can act in ways that seem strange for the outsider.
in parliament the opponents seem to fight tooth and nail (most EU parliamentary systems, but also the in EU bickering), but surprise, when external pressure is applied or a crisis happens, it all coalesces into unity.
they behave a bit like custard, liquid, but solid when pressure is applied.

interestingly the new russian situation adds a lot of stability, Michael died for liberal principles, so he will pretty much become its icon. The whole actions neutralised the opponents of the whole arrangement for quite a while.
Tsarina Xenia, never wanted to be in that position, which is good, because no lust for power, so she will try to make the best of a bad situation (from her point of view) (somewhat related to : those who want to lead, rarely are suited for it/ or anyone who wants to be politician is per definition not suited for being one).
 
Nerdman3000

Nerdman3000

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
To tie up a loose end from the chapter:

The four girls lived happier lives. Along with their maternal aunt Elisabeth, they were sent to live in Hesse, where their mother’s side of the family hailed from. Michael gave them a generous allowance, and they were treated well by Elisabeth’s brother, the Grand Duke.

  • Olga, the eldest, married a minor noble from Saxony five years later and spent the rest of her life in Dresden, dying in 1988 at the ripe old age of 95 and leaving five children and twelve grandchildren behind.
  • Tatiana defied the many suitors she found in Germany, and moved to Vladivostok in 1927, where she spent her last forty-three years in a convent.
  • Maria left Hesse at the start of 1918 and married Prince Kiril of Preslav. After her husband’s death in 1967, she quietly returned to Petrograd, where she died in 1970. Her children and grandchildren remain in Bulgaria to the present.
  • Finally, Anastasia lived in Hesse for a year before marrying the American vice-ambassador, whom she met at a soiree in Berlin to which her uncle was invited. They moved to California but divorced after only two years; she never remarried. She subsequently entered the film industry and became a respected celebrity in 1920s America. Anastasia became an active supporter of a Romanov restoration and partnered with an up-and-coming German filmmaker, Leni Riefenstahl, in 1936 to produce The Riddle, an allegory of her family and exile. She died in a motor accident in 1947. Her memoirs, published posthumously, are read today by monarchists the world over.
Click to expand...
Any chance this could be threadmarked, considering it reveals the fates of the Romanov daughter’s?
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

wietze said:
parliamentary systems can act in ways that seem strange for the outsider.
in parliament the opponents seem to fight tooth and nail (most EU parliamentary systems, but also the in EU bickering), but surprise, when external pressure is applied or a crisis happens, it all coalesces into unity.
they behave a bit like custard, liquid, but solid when pressure is applied.

interestingly the new russian situation adds a lot of stability, Michael died for liberal principles, so he will pretty much become its icon. The whole actions neutralised the opponents of the whole arrangement for quite a while.
Tsarina Xenia, never wanted to be in that position, which is good, because no lust for power, so she will try to make the best of a bad situation (from her point of view) (somewhat related to : those who want to lead, rarely are suited for it/ or anyone who wants to be politician is per definition not suited for being one).
Click to expand...
That's an optimistic assessment, but also a very plausible one. Michael was, in a sense, a martyr for liberalism and the real reactionaries now have to watch themselves lest their opponents say, "and you probably cheered when you heard about the Tsar's death, TRAITOR!"

Xenia doesn't really want the throne, no. For all intents and purposes, Georgi Lvov is running the show.
Nerdman3000 said:
Any chance this could be threadmarked, considering it reveals the fates of the Romanov daughter’s?
Click to expand...
Sure!
Lucca Aba Benzzatti Jorge said:
Oh, this is just pure gold! I laughed way too hard at the insurance company's motto.
Click to expand...
Haha, thanks very much! :) Just a silly little mental image which popped into my head and I knew I had to use...
 
Lisowczycy

Lisowczycy

Damn this sad, the empire going down it's death spiral and there nothing to stop it. I sort of feel bad for any monarchists who believe in Michael and now all his dreams are ashes.

Are the non Russians in the Empire going to rise up and throw off the Russian yoke when the death blow comes?
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

Lisowczycy said:
Damn this sad, the empire going down it's death spiral and there nothing to stop it. I sort of feel bad for any monarchists who believe in Michael and now all his dreams are ashes.

Are the non Russians in the Empire going to rise up and throw off the Russian yoke when the death blow comes?
Click to expand...
Yes- as someone deeply sympathetic to monarchy myself I felt like a bit of an ass writing this.
We've already seen signs of unrest in Ukraine in chapter 45; once the real revolution comes that country will certainly try and break away. I'm sure the Ottomans will be all too willing to help out in the Caucasus and the stans if need be...
 

TGW

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
Thank you very much for the kind words! I'm glad you liked it and hope you stick around. Certainly, I did my utmost to make Tsar Michael a sympathetic character. He didn't really deserve his fate and acted with the best of intentions... but we know which road is paved with those, eh?

I'd never considered the nuances of parliamentary politics in those terms (which reminds me, I need to collapse the Ernst von Heydebrand government soon.....). As an American, I think of these things as rather cut-and-dried and find that that's a source of stability. British politics (I assume you write from somewhere in the UK) has always intrigued me though.
Click to expand...
I definitely intend to! I've actually been watching for the most part silently, but I figured I might as well drop a message of praise.

Yep, I'm British! More specifically Welsh, which is lucky in some respects as the Senedd actually appears to function for the most part. But the Parliament of England, which affects all four countries, is a fascinating and often very bizarre thing to examine and write about. Truth be told, I've been growing more fascinated with your political system as I consider my own timeline (Which is neither here nor there) and learning just how it works has been deeply informative.
 
Gabingston

Gabingston

A cruel twist of irony would be if the actions of the reactionaries leads to Communist rule in Russia, the exact thing they most fear.
I did find the scene where all of them yell "NYET" pretty cool, though.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top