Place In the Sun: What If Italy Joined the Central Powers? (1.0)
- Thread starter Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
- Start date
maybe this might suffice for your purposes ?
... not perfect, but ...
(windows paint or paint.Net, maybe even Irfan view for further "working-on" should be fine)
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Oh damn, I am loving this!
I've seen surprisingly few *good* "Italy joins CP" timelines, so colour me impressed! You're doing a great job as far as I can tell
I've seen surprisingly few *good* "Italy joins CP" timelines, so colour me impressed! You're doing a great job as far as I can tell
Yeah the stretched manpower, as it is British went to conscription to help cover part of the Western front, which is going to have fun effects on production at home as well as home morale. As for the Palestine front I guess they are looking at each other over the Sinai with the difference that some of the OTL british forces has been pulled over to guard Libya and some might have been diverted to France. Also Ottomans are doing this without having to defend Gallipoli, though I am not sure how much more of a force they could support down by the Sinai.Vot do you mean, nothing good can come of this? It is how ve will win ze war, ja?
But seriously, that's the Entente's whole problem in a nutshell.
That's basically right- defence but not attack. However, Joffre will have a rather, er, heavy-handed response which will basically pour gasoline on the fire.
I know, it's great. Got to love it.
Much to the chagrin of Hindenburg and Ludendorff (who will have less of a reputation ITTL), both the general public and military historians ITTL regard Falkenhayn as a genius and a hero, who ended the slaughter of the First World War and made history.
Ooh, interesting! Thanks for requesting that- I'll see what I can do.
Right now, both Libyan fronts are at a stalemate- the fighting seesaws back and forth, but neither side can really break through. Palestine is mostly OTL. However, following TTL's Kut al-Amara, the Ottomans will begin advancing towards Kuwait, as the British have fewer troops in Mespotamia.
Indeed! For the record, Churchill will remain First Lord of the Admiralty for a longer time than OTL.
Also I do wonder if the better CP situation and worse Entente situation may keep the Arab revolt from being as effective given that the UK diverted Egyptian troops as well as equipment to help it and this time they are needing those troops and equipment elsewhere.
Also have to wonder if Churchill may not come up with another 'knockout' plan as at least one person in the admiralty (blanking on who it was) had pushed for a naval invasion of Germany.
> Major french mutiny begins
> Joffre acts rashly and harshly
Oh boy here we go...
> Joffre acts rashly and harshly
Oh boy here we go...
How far did Italy's advance go? Would be interesting if they did manage progress to Nice even if it came far short.
With France in mutiny, I think the Central Powers should launch Naval offensives in both the Med and the North Sea
With France in mutiny, I think the Central Powers should launch Naval offensives in both the Med and the North Sea
I disagree on the Northsea...pretty sure that Britain was the primary naval power there, not France...the RN would still be able to Jutland the KM
My guess here is that the British would have to send more ships to the Med to protect against the Regia Marina, thus allowing the Germans to have more parity.
Hell, it's worth a shot to try and defeat part of the Home Fleet
ok, that could be a concern...if the Brits are suddenly facing the Regia Marina, Austrian Fleet, and few German supplements alone, they might find themselves in trouble quickly...Germany might try something indeed, but I still think they'll lose...it'll just involve more casualties for the Brits, and less for the Germans
The goal isn't military victory on the high seas. That's basically impossible. The goal for Germany is more a propaganda blow - if they can savage even part of the Home fleet, then the British populace will see defeat on the horizon. Basically a naval version of the Tet offensive
With the Italians in the war if the HSF can isolate some of the RN capital ships and sink them at a favorable exchange rate that forces the RN to pull all their caps to guard versus the HSF which allows the Italians and Austrians superiority in the Med vs the French Navy. So ITL a good naval victory actually can change the military situation. The propaganda win is just another gain.
They can get a much better naval situation, yes, but they can't gain a breakthrough on the seas. That's why the propaganda element is stronger than the actual military one.
Absolutely, if you can somehow catch the Battlecruiser force off on its lonesome, absolutely destroy it in detail.
You don't need to actually win naval supremacy. You just need to convince the British public, and more importantly, the American creditors, that you could. England can withstand much, but can it withstand strikes in munition plants, and protests before Parliament? Can it withstand 500,000 mothers marching, demanding to bring their sons home from a 'hopeless war' and to 'make peace now'? Likewise, how long can the nation stand if the Americans see it as a lost cause, and demand payment in hard currency?
very good point actually, I hadn't considered the morale and propaganda aspect of such an operation...if the Germans can manage to force a battle with the RN and at most give the Brits a phyrric victory, that would be a huge blow to Brittish morale, with the people seeing a possible defeat in the future if this war isn't ended soon...that would spell doom for the Brittish war-effort
The Germans don't need to win, they just need to do what they did at Verdun, get the RN to lose more ships than they do
Coulsdon Eagle
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Which is exactly what they did at Jutland. The Admiralty managed the brief storm over that result.
With the disasters befalling France and if the Regia Marina secures a similar victory in the Med, they won't be able to weather the storm as well
Yeah except this timeline the Italian Navy is on the opposite side which changes the naval balance. OTL with only the AH navy to contend with in the Med the French and Italian did not need major backing from the RN. Here the French navy has to deal with both. Combined with the Med being a vital trade route they cant abandon it but at the same time they have to contend with the HSF
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
You are missing my point. The Germans will need to do more than sink a larger number of British ships to deliver a blow to British morale, as that is exactly what they did OTL and nothing changed after the Admiralty let Churchill write the news.
The Italian dreadnoughts stayed in port OTL despite being allied with the British & French, and facing only the Austro-Hungarians (& the possibility, never realised, of the Goeben). And the A-H fleet rarely left the safety of Pola. Why would the Italians be more willing to risk their battle squadron when the odds are definitely less in their favour?