Othniel said:
Okay, I have yet to investigate that far into the history of the HRE (still haven't even reached the year 1100 in my TL). Your right the place is quite large.
On a Tall White Ship
- Thread starter Othniel
- Start date
Okay, I have yet to investigate that far into the history of the HRE (still haven't even reached the year 1100 in my TL). Your right the place is quite large.
Update Spain-
(Part 1, Portion 1)
(Part 1, Portion 1)
1157-1158
Alfonso VII of Castile dies on August 21, 1157. His kingdom is divided amongst his two sons, Sancho gaining Castile and Ferdinand inheriting Leon, as promised to Eleanor of Aquataine. Sancho would die the following year without heir, as his son had died with the mother during childbirth. Ferdinand II would use his birthright to gain the full extent of the Kingdom.
Ferdinand II of Leon, King of Castile
Ferdinand’s II rule was maked with strife between him and the nobles of his kingdoms. They were in constant disagreement with him, causing Ferdinand to put a few to death. His wife did not hold much respect within the Christendom, and managed to gain much ill will from Portugal.
Between Eleanor of Aquataine and Ferdinand II 6 children would be born, of which only four (3 boys and a girl) would reach adulthood.
- Alfonso (Alfred)-Born 1156
- Sancho -Born 1158, died 1158
- Godofredo (Geoffrey) Born 1162
- Joan –Born 1163, Died 1165
- Lenora- Born 1167
- Jaun (John) Born 1171
To be continued (mostly just posting this so I don’t lose my place in my research…)
EDIT; And Comments would be nice...
Last edited:
So now you see...Leon and Castille were only sperated for a year, unlike OTL. I killed off Alphonso VII, instead of having the struggle to control..Imajin said:
After I finsh up with the L-C, and then the other smaller kingdoms I'll explain whats going on with them there...there are some things that will need to be presented well in that regard...
Sideshows
In Ireland the Norman Feudal system is beginning introduced. Richard follows in the steps of William the Conquer, Richard will die and his son will take over the parts of the Kingdom he has conquered and continuing the conquest until the Island is overran, and under the rule of the House of Normandy. Along the way there will be likely absorbance of Irish Culture into the lifestyles of the English nobility that were brought with him.
In kind, Robert of England brings solidarity his reign, and consolidates England. Some of his laws are starting to reduce the feudal trend, and these will continue into his son's reign. I fear those conditions may produce trouble for England in the future, just as they work to bring stability now.
In France, things seem for the worse. Foreign powers, England and Aragon most specifically, have fiefs that they won’t let go of any time soon, but continue to give no reason for the French Monarch to increase his power. Eleanor of Aquitaine continues stubbornly in independence, and with the resources of Leon & Castile at her back, she firmly edges her son to take her place. Catharism is growning strong in Languedoc, while Raymond V of Toulose remains throughly involved many even thinking that he is protecting them. Anjou, Flanders, Brittany all playing their parts of making France a more difficult domain to keep down. Phillip II , as OTL, will be put into a postion to where he will earn a nickname. Will he be Phillip the bad, or Phillip Augusta?
The Iberian Penisullia has four Christian Realms and one Islamic one. King Afonso I of Portugal (Till 1185 ), Ferdinand II of Leon & Castile (till 1188), and Alfonso II of Aragon lead the reconquestia, though not without their distrastions. Ferinand managed to have some problems during his reign forcing himself to lose the opportunity for land gain, while Afonso I of Portugal capitalized on it by caputuring and annexing Extremadura.
The Muslims in Spain managed to aviod the transition from the Almohavids to the Almohads. And when the Sicillian invasions of North Africa the Almohads could not hold ttheir gains. The Moors find a Almohavid heir as a period of reform and islamic philosphy starts to gush. By 1165 there would be peace to their south as they sought to fight back the dogs of war in the North.
All of these however are side shows to what is happening within the mind of Fredrick Barbarrossa. This Barbarrossa that has come through conflict after conflict with his nobles. Troubles with allies, and a recent inspiration from Sicily. The Emporer need a distraction, needed to manufacture a victory and clear house. His solution would be found in the form of a Thrid Crusade. He only needed a reason, and a cause to rally around…
In kind, Robert of England brings solidarity his reign, and consolidates England. Some of his laws are starting to reduce the feudal trend, and these will continue into his son's reign. I fear those conditions may produce trouble for England in the future, just as they work to bring stability now.
In France, things seem for the worse. Foreign powers, England and Aragon most specifically, have fiefs that they won’t let go of any time soon, but continue to give no reason for the French Monarch to increase his power. Eleanor of Aquitaine continues stubbornly in independence, and with the resources of Leon & Castile at her back, she firmly edges her son to take her place. Catharism is growning strong in Languedoc, while Raymond V of Toulose remains throughly involved many even thinking that he is protecting them. Anjou, Flanders, Brittany all playing their parts of making France a more difficult domain to keep down. Phillip II , as OTL, will be put into a postion to where he will earn a nickname. Will he be Phillip the bad, or Phillip Augusta?
The Iberian Penisullia has four Christian Realms and one Islamic one. King Afonso I of Portugal (Till 1185 ), Ferdinand II of Leon & Castile (till 1188), and Alfonso II of Aragon lead the reconquestia, though not without their distrastions. Ferinand managed to have some problems during his reign forcing himself to lose the opportunity for land gain, while Afonso I of Portugal capitalized on it by caputuring and annexing Extremadura.
The Muslims in Spain managed to aviod the transition from the Almohavids to the Almohads. And when the Sicillian invasions of North Africa the Almohads could not hold ttheir gains. The Moors find a Almohavid heir as a period of reform and islamic philosphy starts to gush. By 1165 there would be peace to their south as they sought to fight back the dogs of war in the North.
All of these however are side shows to what is happening within the mind of Fredrick Barbarrossa. This Barbarrossa that has come through conflict after conflict with his nobles. Troubles with allies, and a recent inspiration from Sicily. The Emporer need a distraction, needed to manufacture a victory and clear house. His solution would be found in the form of a Thrid Crusade. He only needed a reason, and a cause to rally around…
Comments, Questions or Critisms?
Last edited:
More than just that. Right around that time Islam's short flirtation with Greek philosphy is ending. To that I'm also extending its effects...Diamond said:
This area is not only getting an extention in life, but is also seeing it come to terms with its changing enviroment. Thus a completely new culture, sperate from that of the North African Moors, is needed to spur on new ideas and proces old philosphies in a new light. This is covered in the next update. But I suppose it wouldn't be unfair to tell you that it is in the Near East.
Nah, the Moors are not yet to that time. They need to be put on the backburner, allowed to devolp and then be explained in a large, intresting sidenote piece. Don't worry, I have them going through some intresting times ahead.G.Bone said:
So far its not, at least that much. Thats because the immeadiate future has some of OTL's desired cultural effects that I wish to capitalise on, and then twist.
After all this is following the line of divergence that is strongest at this point. In this case the Thrid Crusade becomes a matter of precedence. This event in turn will have immeadiate effects, which might be dampered by events which were in motion before the divergence, or even uneffected regions that have important things happening beside these written here.
Center Ring
I keep attempting to write this portion, and it doesn't come out how it should sound. I have the scenes in my head but the words escape me...thus again I tell you like it is not within a story, but from my point of view.
By the 1160s Nur ad-Din had united most of Syria as the beginning of his dream to unite from the Nile to the Euphrates as a common front against the crusaders. From Edessa to Hauran were under his control, and through treaty with the Roman Emperor he kept his war against the Knights Hospitaller from being effective against him.
In 1164, under the advice of his Kurdish general Shirkuh, Nur ad-Din invaded Egypt. With this news the Patriarch of Antioch wrote to the West, in particular the Germanic Emperor. Fredrick went through Constantinople, meeting Manuel I, to Syria with a Great number of men from Italy and Germany. (They would arrive in 1167)
At the end of the war Nur ad-Din's domains would be given to Henry the Lion, though he would have to give sulturization to Emperor Manuel I of Byzantine personally. Egypt under the Fatimid Caliphate, already in decay, would continue in decline, while paying annual tribute to the local powers.
Manuel I though had put the crusader kingdoms under a personal loyalty rather than a loyalty to the Byzantine Empire among the Crusader Kingdoms. Once he was gone it would only take one weak Emperor to propel the Eastern Mediterrain into a Time of Troubles…
----------------------------------
Comments? Questions?
Credit for this segment largely goes to Midgardmetal who talked this through with me. Most of the Byzamtine stuff does... including the parts after Manuel's death.
I know I want to at least keep going on this until the Mongollian Invasion of Europe, which is still going to happen on sheadule, and have the same things happen in the areas not linaerly touched. (China, Russia, and Persia largely.) So right now don't except any updates or butterflies outside of Europe, rather just look it up in a history book.
Last edited:
A few more details about Henry as of 1171 when he was given the throne of Syria;
At this point in OTL he had two daughters, in OATWS he has a daughter and two sons. Gertrude(b.1155, age 15), Henry (b. 1158, age 13) and Otto (b.1164, age 7), with their mother dieing giving birth to Otto. Henry would marry again to the daughter of King Robert of England, Matilda, just prior to the cornation.
With this move Bavaria and Saxony were placed under Henry's sons.(Henry himself appointing the boys regents)Gertrude was married to Duke Frederick IV of Swabia, but he would die in 1167(22). Gertrude is currently courted by Canute VI of Denmark.
At this point in OTL he had two daughters, in OATWS he has a daughter and two sons. Gertrude(b.1155, age 15), Henry (b. 1158, age 13) and Otto (b.1164, age 7), with their mother dieing giving birth to Otto. Henry would marry again to the daughter of King Robert of England, Matilda, just prior to the cornation.
With this move Bavaria and Saxony were placed under Henry's sons.(Henry himself appointing the boys regents)Gertrude was married to Duke Frederick IV of Swabia, but he would die in 1167(22). Gertrude is currently courted by Canute VI of Denmark.
Good stuff - especially the part dealing with Henry the Lion. I presume his kingdom is much stronger than OTL Crusader kingdoms, and will be easier to break vassalage to Byzantium. BTW, does Myriocephalon (1176) still happen? It was the battle that was linked by many in Constantinople to be "second Manzikert" - although the fallout was once again more diplomatic than anything else; it marked the end of large-scale Byzantine reconquest of Anatolia, and beginning of decline of Byzantine power in the Asian half of the Empire.
This depends on the Danishmends and Manuel I. If Manuel I is unwilling to make a new peace this could set the Antollian reconquesta back a bit. I think I might aviod this, as I did have some plans for Antollia to do somewhat well against the Seljuks for a period of time in the early and mid-13th century.midgardmetal said:
After all, Manuel in this timeline doesn't commit more forces to the Egyptian campaing, as it is on their side, instead of Nur ad-Din's general's nephew.(aka Saladin)
The British Royals-Robert I
Robert, like William before him, did not suffer the anarchy. Robert, unlike his counter-part in OTL (Henry II) did not have the barons undermine royal authority and with a good portion leaving for Ireland, Robert was starting in a better position than he ever knew. The Barons too profited more than OTL, Robert being the sort to allow them indulgences easier than either of his counterparts would have, though they too would never have known that.
One example of difference is that Robert never did pass anything similar to Assize of Clarendon, leaving trial by combat, instead of trail by jury as the main method of justice. Another is the increase in castles built in this time period.
Robert would be wed to Agnes of Savoy, daughter of Amadeus III of Savoy, in 1146. This union would produce a stillborn son, followed by two daughters, a son (to the relief of Bob), and another daughter. Matilda (b. 1154), Anna (b.1158), and Adelaide (b. 1168) found themselves being brought up with the expectations of being married, whilst William (b. 1161) found himself swamped with the work of being the Duke of Normandy.
Robert's envy of the opportunity given to his brother ended up making himself sick, death finally claiming the king in 1174. William would become king as a thirteen year old boy, though with his mother, and then his sister, Anna, taking regency.
