On a Tall White Ship

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Othniel, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    On a Tall White Ship

    (What if the White Ship Disaster didn’t happen?)





    On November 25, 1120 AD William Adelin, son of King Henry the First of England, would die. William, the sole heir of Henry drowned after attempting to save his half-sister. His wife, Isabella d’Anjou, would go on to become a nun. At the death of Henry, Stephen of Blois, instead of his legitimate sister Matilda, would take over the throne leading to a period of anarchy and the first of the Plantagenet kings. But what if this disaster had never happened?

    (Timeline to follow)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2006
  2. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    No Anarchy? No nineteen winters when Christ and His angels slept? No Plantagenets?

    Interesting...
     
  3. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Acualtly this an anwser to your Continetial England Challange.:) I admit that I may have some trouble with this period of history, but seeing as English history historians seem to be floating around I feel I can be held accoutable for anything they deem unrealistic on my part. And this isn't all I'll be doing for House Normandy either..
     
  4. G.Bone lurks

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    You.

    Othniel.

    Must Start TL.

    START BEFORE I GO HULK ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    -November 25, 1120 The White Ship disaster does not take place.


    -December 1, 1135 Henry I of England dies. William Adelin is made King William III.



    -June 12, 1136 William Clito, Count of Flanders, puts down the rebellion against his claims. He would produce two sons and one daughter with his wife, Johanna of Montferrat. With the wool shipments from England restarting his rule in Flanders is stabilized.






    William III’s political experiences were limited to his role as rex designatus, while his father was away in Normandy and again as a Duke of Normandy. Upon his coronation William would havemuch to deal with. The influences of his wife, of the Bishop Robert of Salisbury whom advised him during his father’s absences, and the poltical turbulence of the times in general. In the building of the tradition started by his father, William’s son Robert would become Duke of Normandy (akin to the modren day prince of Wales system)


    William III shared his name with anouther cousin. William Clito, son of hisUncle Robert of Normandy, had layed claim to the Norman Duchy after his father had been imprisoned by Henry I and through the poltical machenisms had kept Clito from claiming the Duchy back.

    Loius VI of France however championed William Clito and arranged for him to be married to Johanna of Montferrat, daughter of Renier I of Montferrat and Gisela of Burgundy, and thus half-sister of the French queen. Charles the Good of Flanders died in 1127, without a direct heir. Louis asserted his right to settle the succession to the vacant fief of Flanders. William had some claim on the county, being the grandson of Matilda of Flanders and thus a great-grandson of Baldwin V of Flanders. And thus Willian Clito became the ruler of Flanders, though it was greatly contested. Henry I would take away wool need to run Flanders industry thus sending the county into civil war, with Theirry of Alsance leading the other side. William Clito’s millitary expirence would be able to win the day, were he had been fatally wounded in OTL, would be left a Count of Flanders.
     
  6. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Just call this a pilot so I don't lose the idea. You see this is all basically the POD... I have a whole lot more research to do, but I just wanted to get this out there before the idea stopped...
     
  7. G.Bone lurks

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    Interesting...Flanders as French colony....

    Very interesting...
     
  8. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Well technically Flanders was a French Fief until the 15th Century. I simply took an OTL person and failed to have him die in battle. You should see why this is important as soon as I get to it...
     
  9. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Grammer and spelling changes in section below;


    William III’s political experiences were limited to his role as rex designatus, while his father was away in Normandy and again as a Duke of Normandy. Upon his coronation William would have much to deal with. The influences of his wife, of the Bishop Robert of Salisbury whom advised him during his father’s absences, and the political turbulence of the times in general. In the building of the tradition started by his father, William’s son Robert would become Duke of Normandy (akin to the modern day prince of Wales system)

    William III shared his name with another cousin. William Clito, son of his Uncle Robert of Normandy, had laid claim to the Norman Duchy after Henry I had imprisoned his father and through the political mechanisms had kept Clito from claiming the Duchy back.

    Louis VI of France however championed William Clito and arranged for him to be married to Johanna of Montferrat, daughter of Renier I of Montferrat and Gisela of Burgundy, and thus half-sister of the French queen. Charles the Good of Flanders died in 1127, without a direct heir. Louis asserted his right to settle the succession to the vacant fief of Flanders. William had some claim on the county, being the grandson of Matilda of Flanders and thus a great-grandson of Baldwin V of Flanders. And thus William Clito became the ruler of Flanders, though it was greatly contested. Henry I would take away wool need to run Flanders industry thus sending the county into civil war, with Thierry of Alsace leading the other side. William Clito’s military experience would be able to win the day, were he had been fatally wounded in OTL, would be left a Count of Flanders.
     
  10. G.Bone lurks

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    So what about Holland?
     
  11. bill_bruno Spinning the Wheels of If

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    What about Wms. sister Matilda?

    Does she still marry Plantagenet?
     
  12. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    From what my reaseach can tell me its under Dirk VI. There was a brother's war that ended in 1141 and Dirk would go on a crusade in 1139. Realtively unimportant at this point... not until Count Floris III would they start to gain an aura of importantance, and he won't come to power till 1157. Thus far they remain pretty much uneffected (at least not visably) by the butterflies.
     
  13. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Technically she had married Henry V in 1114 and that remains unchanged by the POD, as does his death, and the fact that she was 'Childless' from that marriage. However without that heirship she would not Geoffrey of Anjou, which by the butterflies would prevent Jeff Handsome (His nickname was Geoffrey the Handsome) from conquering Normandy. Henry I, through William's wife, already has a connection to the County of Anjou thus I will think on where I'm going to send Empress Maud.:)
     
  14. Shadow Knight Grand Master of the BAM Order

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    Good luck! I came across this while doing research into my HRE TL and needless to say the poor guy isn't going to drown in the 'Grey Ship' incident (or so what my feeble memory recalls it being called) in my TL.

    Still more TLs around this era can only be good thing.
     
  15. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Didn't Robert Curthose take England in your timeline though? And more timelines in this area are good, especially if you can get them two to three centuries out from the POD where only historical thought patterns are excepted. Get past five centuries and you are only constrainted by your own timeline.
     
  16. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    The Reign of Louis VII, King of France
    Part 1
    Louis VII found himself heir to the throne of France rather unexpectedly after his older brother’s fatal accident in 1131. His coronation would take place in 1137, the same year he married his wife, Eleanor of Aquitaine, producing two daughters, Marie (1145- 1198) and Alix (1151-1197).
    Being the second son of Louis VI he was prepared for a more ecclesiastical profession. However monkish he was though did not stop conflict from highlighting most of his reign. He disagreed violently with Pope Innocent II over the nomination of Pierre de la Chatre to the archbishopric of Bourges. Louis VII promised that la Chatre would never enter into Bourges as long as Louis had a breathe in his body.

    Louis VII would fight Theobald II of Champagne when Louis VII would allow to Raoul I of Vermandois to repudiate his wife, Theobald's niece. This repudiation would allow Raoul to marry Louis's sister-in-law, Petronilla of Aquitaine. The war would last from 1142 to 1144, ending with the occupation of Champagne.

    During that war Louis VII assaulted and burned the town of Vitry. As a result he was extremely affected by guilt, causing him to announce on Christmas Day that he intended to go on a crusade. Bernard of Clairvaux sermon on Easter Morning in 1146 would assure its popularity.
    Aside: The historian Odo of Deuil would record it. You can go here to read his writings on it; http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/odo-deuil.html

    Note: There was no seizure of Gisors, becase Geoffrey the Handsom of Anjou would not seize it due to not having been married to Empress Maud. Subsquently this means I need a new wife for Geoffrey. I will also need a different new husband for the heiress of Aquitaine, because Henry II was never borne.
     
  17. Shadow Knight Grand Master of the BAM Order

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    Nope he is still technically the heir to the throne but presently his is being imprisoned by a nameless (because I haven't bothered to name one :) ) Byzantine official in Crete...just lost his wife, now he is imprisoned...will he make it back in time before his father dies and his brother swipes the throne...I don't know haven't got quite that far yet.
     
  18. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    Excellent work Oth, glad my post inspired it, this period of English history (after 1066, before 1400s) tends to be a bit neglected for WIs...
     
  19. AuroraBorealis Member

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    Alienor of Aquitaine

    any chance of her marrying into the House of Toulouse or perhaps Burgundy or Aragon?

    It would make quite an impressive collection of fiefs in the south of France then for any heirs of the match.
     
  20. AuroraBorealis Member

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    Alienor of Aquitaine

    any chance of her marrying into the House of Toulouse or perhaps Burgundy or Aragon?

    It would make quite an impressive collection of fiefs in the south of France then for any heirs of the match.