Actually I think in the world of OPAS either the King in Yellow would spawn imitators and an expanded universe (given heavy themes of a corrupt and decaying old order, focus on artists etc.) or possibly (and more likely) Hodgson survives the war and ties his stories together into a cohesive story cycle since his characters tend to be passionate men of action overcoming long odds. I had an amusing thought once where Hodgson survives and Lovecraft basically becomes his Derleth.
Of Poets and Supermen Volume I - The Drums of War
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
Okay, so these are all good ideas and I'm glad you guys brought them up, because I'm honestly undecided on what I want to do for the late Halloween special (or if it's too early in the timeline to do holiday specials). I like the idea of Carnarists going up against eldritch abominations a lot, it's pulpy and bombastic and the type of thing I fucking love. I also like the more serious suggestion of Secondari and the men of the Uscocchi stumbling into a supernatural situation that requires actual cooperation with their captives to survive. The only reason I'm not jumping in and doing one or both of those ideas instead of what I've planned is that I honestly think that Lovecraftian and eldritch/cosmic horror is too popular nowadays. Which isn't saying that it's bad or that Napo is bad for using it, it's just something that I think has been a tad bit overutilized in mainstream fiction, and I just don't feel like it's the right fit for OPAS. That and while OPAS does take inspiration from WMIT (hell, the idea of possibly doing holiday specials was inspired by WMIT), I don't want to come across as derivative.
To be perfectly honest, I'm not a huge horror person, and the stuff I do like is more avant-garde than mainstream (what a hipster, amirite?). I like psychological horror, horror-thrillers, giallo (though I haven't watched much, if any, giallo films, the genre just fascinates me as a whole), ero-guro, gothic horror, things that draw on the aesthetics of the Grand Guignol, and so on. Mundane evil, evil that isn't particularly supernatural in nature and is centered around more human villains. Which isn't to say that I don't like supernatural shit (Penny Dreadful is hands-down my favorite horror program of the past decade, and that's mired in gothic horror and the supernatural), I just find the works with actually human monsters (think Fritz Haarman, Leopold & Loeb, Ted Bundy, etc) more interesting by far.
That being said, here are a couple of ideas that I've been kicking around in my head for the past day or two (note that these are all not necessarily canon to OPAS' larger timeline and may or may not feature characters that I'll end up revisiting in the future):
- Beasts of Berlin: Kriminalkommissar (Criminal Inspector) Gereon Lang has been assigned to hunt down a mysterious serial killer operating within Weimar Berlin's decadent underworld, bringing him into contact with all manner of individuals and organizations, from the organized criminals of the Ringvereine to the dissolute teenage brotherhoods of the Wilde Jungs, as he searches the nightclubs, brothels, and cabaret halls of Berlin for a killer that may not be entirely human.
- Ghosts of Tambov: The dreams of Cadre Fyodor "Fedya" Alliluyev, trusted associate of Kamo, are plagued by recurring nightmares of his service with the future Soviet leader. In his dreams, he must come face to face with the lingering horrors of the Russian Civil War and the period after it, and his role in the brutal suppression of a peasant uprising against the Bolshevik government in 1920 and 1921.
- Thrill Me: A Love Story: A darkly comic look at the unsolved ransom and murder of the fourteen year-old son of a wealthy Chicago watch manufacturer in 1924, a crime so shocking and vile that the newspapers of the time called it "The Crime of the Century", all shown from the vile point of view of the gleeful perpetrators of the gruesome act.
Oh, understandable! Lovecraft and his mythos is all good and such, but I can sympathize with how you feel. Really, the grimdarkness of WMIT goes very well with the cosmic horror stories that the Lovecraftian mythos tends to make. Good for such a dark and hilariously morbid timeline, where the plausibility is more relaxed in favor of telling a world gone mad (both the funny way and the scary way). OPAS is similar, but different. You want to tell a good story, like every respectable and good author wants to! The theme is more different though, of course. While WMIT had pulpy influence, it wasn't too prominent compared to the rest of the themes, like mad science, state cults, and a horrific perversion of the American Dream into the American Nightmare. OPAS, on the other hand, has a healthy handful of pulp into the mix. This timeline sounds like the setting to a tabletop RPG, or some Two-Fisted Tales in a Pulp Magazine. A different sort of horror genre would work better in this setting, a more human element.
I in fact have some more ideas for those kinds of stories you favor as well, if you may take a look.
The Return of the Ripper: The Regency of Carnaro attracts many sorts of individuals. The broken, beaten, and the damned are the cherished alongside the young, the eager, and the dauntless. One of those who have recently arrived is a old and depressed man, who once left a mark on history, but was discarded from the headlines as callously as he had discarded of his victims. This is a new city, with new opportunities. Why else would he have wanted to come here? He calls himself Jack Whitechapel, but he'd rather go by the name Ripper...
Strangled in a Handless Grasp: Leopold Jacobs had a distinguished career. Serving his kingdom he did his duty with honor and merit civilizing the dark heart of Africa, with a prestigious promotion in his hands, he had it all. Keyword, had. After sleeping with the white daughter of an influential administrator instead of his usual lowly Congolese laborer for a change, he barely got out with his reputation, getting out with only a few medals and a severe career setback. He resumed his job, but his greed and anger only combined to worsen the already savage punishments freely dispensed in the Congo Free State. With his retirement after The Great War, he settled down for a time. Until opportunity made itself known on the European continent. Seeing the opportunity to make some money, he made his way to the domain of the cuckoo commandant. Unbeknownst to him however, specters of the past are starting to make themselves known. And very soon, Leopold will find out that these "specters" are very real, as is also their lust for vengeance.
The Creeping Count of the Carpathians: Bloodshed has come to Italy, and the bloodthirsty flock to the beleaguered boot of Europe. Some more literally than others. It is not every day that nobility come to such a scandalous sovereignty, yet here one is. The Commandant makes a peculiar acquaintance in a cold and courteous count. He claims that he belongs to an ancient and prestigious lineage that has fallen on hard times, with a county that is all his own. He brings with him beautiful maidens, their skin like freshly fallen snow, and as cold as it too. Soon, though the Commandant and his companions will find that his guest's self proclaimed "exotic" tastes are more than boasts. The most dangerous struggle for the survival of the Regency lies not in the streets, but in the esteemed halls of the government itself.
IMHO, you may want to do a couple more chapters before we get a holiday special. You probably want to build up the world a bit more before we get some special chapters. You do what you want to do, we're just here as the audience and advisers. It's your call!
Last edited:
Future Developments and Propaganda Teaser
I like these a lot, the second one in particular is really good, especially since I already have some future plans for the Belgian Congo. As for holding off on special chapters, you're right, to be honest. There's a lot of ground I want to cover, and we're not even out of the 20s yet! I'm gonna have a lot of fun detailing pop culture over time in OPAS, not to mention the changes that occur as Europe and Asia gear up for conflict while the US retreats into isolationism and xenophobia. Kamo's gonna be really different from Stalin both in outlook and personality, and the future of European (particularly British and French) colonialism is gonna be a lot bloodier and harsher than it was in OTL. Plus, there are some developments that I've got planned that I think people will really enjoy. Without giving away too much, these developments include the rising political career of Charles Nungesser, the explosion (yet again) of the Balkan powderkeg, the Great Migration of the 1920s, the restoration of the Habsburgs to a European throne, the development of alternate terminology, the Shanghai adventures of George W, and more!
In other news, I've began to get more into alternate propaganda and the creation of it, and I've done two so far that I wanna share with y'all as a teaser of things to come. Enjoy another glimpse into the future of OPAS!
Last edited:
I never knew a 20s propaganda poster could disturbe me so much.
Technically speaking, it's a political cartoon rather than a poster, but they might as well be the same. The text reads "The law is dead, long live the brutality!" and it's a German anti-French poster/cartoon denouncing the occupation of the Ruhr and the Rhineland.
Yes, I knew the words meaning and the context. I investigated a bit out of interest, although I already had recognized what the words said (because french is related with my native language) and that quote below the savage murder was one of the reasons I was disturbed.
Warning that what I'm going to say now isn't actually an spoiler, but a NSFW explanation of the reasons.
Perhaps what affected me the most is that I perceived it as both a murder and a rape. Is surely unintentional but the position the french prostitute is in over Germania (who is half naked, defenceless and bleeding out) reminds me of a cowgirl position, coupled with the depraved (lusty?) stare of Marianne (the french representation) and the high heel shoes nailed on Germania's neck. The knife seemed a phallic symbolism. All this and the french quote about brutality made me think of the Acephales of accelerationist france in Red Flood, and the fact I was interpreting a homosexual murderous rape in a 1920s cartoon added an out-of-place vibe. Either I'm a overanalyzing this and I'm the creepy guy here or the one who did this knew two things about making disturbing subtext.
Last edited:
Could we eventually see a Minister of Vengeance Weapons? A portfolio of wonder weapons and controlled substances makes for a winning combination to my mind.
I can confirm that this will eventually happen at some point. I'm not sure who it's going to be just yet, as my original choice might not be available due to changes I've made, but it's something that will happen.
Thank you for the praise! The second idea's title is one that I'm really proud of. It speaks both to horror, the infamous "hands-off" (Forgive me for that pun, I could not resist) approach to discipline in the Congo Free State, and managing to sound like the title of a story in an old pulp magazine. An achievement in titles for me, that one is. As for the other two, well, vampires are practically synonymous with Gothic horror, and a Hungarian vampire going to a place where his odd mannerisms wouldn't really stick out is a fun one. It would be serious for the most part, as really all three of them are, but some meta humor involving some characters reference and quote Dracula would be fun. The vampire's personality is also going to be different from say, the Universal Classics Monsters version of vampires. This guy will have class, yes. But he's also going to be a likable character. Or at least, he won't be an unstoppable force of pure darkness. He'll be sympathetic enough, but still a little funny in the mind from being immortal, to say the least. Who wouldn't?
The Jack the Ripper story is the result of me noticing that your two of your story ideas involved crime (The second one might still involve crime, the Bolsheviks were basically bandits in the early years). I forgot where I got the idea of having Jack the Ripper as the killer, but to me it could be plausible. If Jack was say born in 1869 or 1868, meaning he is about 19 or 20 years old at the time of the killings, and managed to stay in fortunate luck and health, he would be around 52-53 years old by 1921. Jack must've loved the attention he had when he was on his killing spree, and he would, I feel, be the sort who wants to try to relive the "good ole days". That, and put his name back in the spotlight again (Because apparently his cultural legacy isn't enough for him). I imagine it would be like a clash between the themes of Victorian Era penny dreadfuls and Pulp magazine adventure stories. Something like that, yeah.
The propaganda posters are also well done. What did you use to make them? I remember reading in your post in the A Guide, Resource, and Repository of Could-have-been Ideologies for your Alternate History that Liberia and Garveyism would have a role in your timeline, so that's cool to see. The second one is probably going to be issued in similar circumstances as it was in OTL. So overall, good work!
Last edited:
Yeah, the second one stood out to me just because the Belgian Congo was absolutely brutal and insane and (to my knowledge) doesn't get covered as much as it should in post-1900 TLs. Even if I don't end up doing a holiday special or using that story for anything, I'm probably gonna use elements from it (and possibly the main character's name) for a future viewpoint character (with credit of course). I'll admit that I've got a soft spot for vampire fiction (I'm a big fan of the original World of Darkness and Vampire the Masquerade), though it can be a bit overdone at times. The Jack the Ripper one is something unexpected and interesting (if you like vampire fiction, I highly recommend Kim Newman's Anno Dracula series, it's essentially a well-written vampire alt-hist and Dracula fanfic where the eponymous Transylvanian triumphs over the heroes and goes on to forcefully marry Queen Victoria...it's wild and the first book directly deals with the Ripper murders), and I agree that's it plausible and could fit in to the world of OPAS. A clash between the themes of penny dreadfuls and pulp adventures would be fun to write, for sure. The two crime story ideas I had are based off of two really famous early 20th century crimes that really play off of the idea that humans can be evil without an outside supernatural force. Thrill Me in particular would deal with a lot of the themes of OPAS, given that the actual crime involved a twisted version of the Nietzschean Übermensch.
As for the propaganda posters, I'm glad you liked them! I made them in paint.net and based them off of two real-life posters that I altered. The Liberian one was based off of this anti-Biafran poster from Nigeria in 1968, while the French one is the aforementioned "Long live the Brutality" cartoon. The former will (as you've guessed) be about Liberia and Garveyism, while the second one will actually be a bit different than the OTL original, being either a wartime French or German piece of propaganda (haven't decided which just yet). Now, on to the most important thing, which is the content of the next Chapter, as I've finally decided what I want to do for it. My plan is for it to have a bit of a broader scope than previous chapters (kind of like the first chapter), focusing on Kamo's role during the Russian Civil War and the beginnings of Petrosianism, the revolutions and interventions in Hungary during 1919 and 1920, and (possibly, haven't quite decided yet) the origins of the Volkssturmbewegung and revived German nationalism. I'll note something in advance that this chapter will be a bit different than previous ones, in that it'll be more "impromptu" compared to the others. Essentially, what this means is that I won't be doing as much research as usual, since a good deal of it will involve fictional/alternate events that help shape some of the alternate ideologies in OPAS. Which isn't to say that there won't be any research or footnotes, as I've done a bit of research on what'll be covered already, but it won't be as in-depth and expansive as Chapter III or anything like that.
Finally, there's one last thing I want to ask, and it concerns the narrative style of the timeline thus far. Do you guys like the way I've structured non-POV chapters so far, with the excerpts from in-universe textbooks? Would there be something else you'd like to see instead, such as fictional letters and articles and the like? I've thought about a couple ways to switch things up to keep it fresh and attract new readers, such as occasionally doing non-POV chapters in a more narrative style like in WMIT and Let The Eagle Scream, since I enjoy that sort of narration, but I wanted some feedback from y'all before I make any concrete decisions.
I personally like the textbook excerpts over in-universe editorials or letters, and having some narrative non-POV chapters mixed in would be fun
The setup you currently have now I like, but I do have some suggestions. After an event that would be seen as important or notable in the timeline, maybe have a POV character be a witness or participant in it. They don't even have to be in the epicenter of the event, they can instead feel the shock-waves or ripples in the world that they live in, which to me makes the world feel like an actual world. Another suggestion would to have a POV segment, which would than segue into a standard alternate history exposition segment that makes up a fair bulk of the timelines. Regardless of whether you implement my suggestions or not, the timeline is still written good as it is. Hope this helps!
Hey all, Perse here with an update on the next chapter. Now, I know I said that I was going to cover some events in the wider world, but I felt a bit inspired, so instead I'm going to cover everyone's favorite superhuman ideology, Carnarism! Get ready, because Chapter V is going to herald in THE RUSH TOWARD THE FUTURE.
I fucking love this. You get a medal of Fiume for your service, wear it with pride.
I'm doing alright, though I never really feel like I have a lot of free time between school and other things, to be honest. As for the chapter, I've taken a bit of a break this past week in order to try and focus on some classwork that I've fallen behind on, as well as work on my entry for the 32nd Vignette Contest over on the Sea Lion Press forums. I lost what I'd had written of that entry because I didn't bother saving it to an external doc and my laptop restarted, which sucks, but oh well.
Regardless, I should have something ready for posting either by the end of the weekend or the beginning of next week.
Thank you! And a very nice medal indeed. I indeed will take pride in what I have made. Don't worry about making us wait.Take your time, quality is like smoked meats sometimes. The longer it takes, the better it is.Your personal life comes first. Now, some questions. What sources are you using to create Carnarism? The idea of you deciding to create a legitimate political ideology for a story on an internet forum is both funny and impressive. You mentioned you had read the original Charter of Carnaro. Where better to start than the OG itself? What other political works are you and thus by extension the Carnarists in the story taking inspiration from? You don't have to divulge to much if you don't want too, since the chapter literally explaining the ideology is on the way. Thank you, and by the way. If it's good and proper motivation for you, more writing means more material for me to make memes out of!
Last edited:
Well, it's less of a "legitimate" political ideology and more of an alternate ideology for this timeline. When it comes to timelines on this site, it's not exactly as strange of a concept as you might think, as evidenced by the many alternate ideologies listed in this post by @Born in the USSA (which will hopefully include a number of ones written by yours truly at some point in the future). There are of course, two prime issues when it comes to creating alternate ideologies such as Carnarism, Petrosianism, and the Volkssturmbewegung. I think this summary of those issues by former member (read: banned member) Dr. Strangeglove is a perfect one.
Dr. Strangeglove said:
Now, with that in mind, what I'm trying to do in OPAS (which is, in my opinion, something that a decent amount of alternate history doesn't do, though I could be wrong in this regard) is come up with plausible alternate ideologies that are based on the OTL beliefs of the individuals involved in the creation of said ideologies. Petrosianism is an exception to this rule, mainly because Kamo's own political views were essentially non-existent, given the fact that he didn't have the inclination for forming his own views on socialism/communism in OTL. When it comes to Carnarism, the second issue comes into play a lot, seeing as how (much like Dr. Strangeglove's *Trotskyism) aspects of Carnarism come pretty damn close to my own views and beliefs. A Carnarist world might come close to an ideal world for me, but because it's ideal, I'm aware that it could never work in OTL. Carnarism is like Fiume, a semi-utopian dream forged from the mad vision of an artistic superman, one that was ultimately destined to fall to the wayside as history continued its inexorable march forward. That being said, I could just be a pretentious hack waxing philosophically about bullshit, who knows?
ANYWAY.
Enough of this tangent where I ramble about my own personal bullshit, and let me answer your question about Carnarism and its inspirations. As you noted, the Charter of Carnaro is one of the inspirations for the Carnarists and the Charter of Rome (what the founding document of Carnarism is called). Now, when it comes to other manifestos and political theories that I'm (and by extension, the Carnarists are) drawing on for inspiration, the main ones (as of this post) are Filippo Tommaso Marinetti's Futurist Manifesto and the Manifesto of the Italian Futurist Political Party, Valentine de Saint-Point's Manifesto of the Futurist Woman and the Futurist Manifesto of Lust (for some of the more gender and sexually progressive elements with the second work), and finally Enrico Corradini's theory of Proletarian Nationalism. Additionally, there might be some influences from the Roman Republic, specifically the concept of Latin Rights for conquered peoples (though I'm not quite sure how or even if I'm going to incorporate that, hence the might). Unsurprisingly, you'll notice that several different "views" of what exactly constitutes Carnarism as an ideology. Some will adhere to the Futurist beliefs of Marinetti, others will embrace Corradini's proletarian nationalism, there'll even be followers of the more conservative elements of Carnarism, and finally there will be those who believe in Carnarism as laid out in the Charter itself without making any sort of distinction between the various views. Generally-speaking, that last one will be the most prominent among the Italian citizenry, because it's the most uniform and the least divisive of the views.
That's the key difference between OPAS' Carnarist Italy and OTL's Fascist Italy, in my opinion. While the governments of both states feature shades of authoritarianism, the latter is far more controlling and restrictive in its views of the individual, while the former possesses a more radical view of the individual, one that's more closely related to the Nietzschean version of the New Man. They are both ideocracies, but while Fascist Italy is a totalitarian one (where citizens are forced to follow the state ideology), Carnarist Italy is a populist one (where citizens voluntarily follow the state ideology). Naturally, these both lead to the development of a sort of authoritarian personality/mindset within their citizens, but the Carnarist citizen is convinced that Italy is great because it is truly free. Those enemies of the Italian state aren't enemies because they're scapegoats for their own insecurities and doubts that they must fight within themselves, they're enemies because they're shackled to outdated views of humanity and morality.
To the Carnarist, the communist claims to fight for the people, yet refuses to let the people be free to pursue their dreams. The capitalist claims to offer the people the freedom of choice, yet robber barons and businessmen can accumulate vast amounts of wealth while the poor suffer. The concept of the New Man is ingrained within Carnarist thought, and that plays an additional role in who the Italians invite to join the League of Fiume as either equal member states or as lesser League-aligned nations. Volkssturmbewegung Germany takes inspiration from Nietzsche as well as some influence from Carnarism, therefore they're a natural ally as an equal member state. Similarly, Legionary Romania (minor spoilers there) has an ideology based around the creation of a revolutionary New Man (albeit one that's different in conception and of a spiritual rather than a moral nature) and share the same Latin heritage as Italy and are thus worthy to be viewed as an equal member state, despite their atrocious Anti-Semitic, Anti-Ziganist, and Anti-Magyar beliefs. On the other hand, Garveyist Liberia (more minor spoilers) is a lesser member state because while they share some similarities with the Carnarists (in fact, they receive support from the Carnarists later on) and have similar goals in working toward dismantling the plutocratic colonial system, they also differ a tad too much with their beliefs in racial purity and separatism ("Why would you seek to separate and purify the races when they can all strive to be noble and superhuman?"), Pan-Africanism ("Come now, every race has its own distinct culture to be celebrated!"), and economics ("Corporatism is the future, Capitalism is the past!").
Of course, all of this isn't meant to say that Carnarism is this super wholesome nationalist ideology that everyone should follow, because it's not. While their colonial policy is leagues (pun intended) better than OTL's Fascist policy and native culture is celebrated and accepted, Italian is the first thing that's taught in schools, followed by the teachings of native dialects and tongues, although the actual instruction will be done in the native language. Plus, this doesn't even cover how they wage war and the lengths they'll go to achieve victory (hint, it's bloody and glorious and superhuman). Carnarism is a rush to the future and it has no time for those who aren't willing to go along with that rush. The old world order will fall and the Carnarist future will dawn. QUIS CONTRA NOS? EIA! EIA! EIA! ALALA!
I appreciate the shoutout to my list post! Given how this is going I'm sure you'll have at least two entries for me to add!