Six Schools/Neolegalism
So something I've been wondering for the past couple of days: what sort of scenario could see one or more of the Chinese Six Schools (Confucianism, Legalism, Taoism, Mohism, Yin-Yang, and Logicians) mature/evolve into competitive political ideologies (in the modern sense) in the wider East Asian region and eventually beyond? Maybe a different Warlord Period at the latest, or perhaps an earlier fall of the Qing? Of course the ultimate accomplishment of such an ideology would essentially be a reverse PRC scenario, namely a western nation reorganizing along the lines of an eastern ideology. I'd say some strain of Neo-Legalism would be the most likely to achieve such a result.
 
Monarcho-Socialism: Kings force the capitalist class to share their wealth with the people to prevent the lower classes from revolting and the capitalists to become to powerful.
I think a Christian base movement that copy much of socialism economic ideas and narratives is more likely. I wouldn’t be “Christian Socialism”. They probably resent that label and identity socialism and communism as “godless”.

They can easily claim and argue Jesus teachings are for a more communistic society or welfare state. Christians actually have a fair point there and come off as less hypocritical. You can be social conservative or even a religious fanatic and still be for a expansive welfare or socialist like state.

It probably identify as a solely Christian movement. This could take off within the Catholic Church even. Maybe a more liberation theology type Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church did at times speak out against capitalism just as much as socialism. It opposed both extremes. Maybe instead of being for monarchism the Catholic Church does start supporting conservative or religious republicanism as well earlier on. A third way option of the 1900th century. It’s basically the church being more open to adapting to changes of industrial revolution while still trying to retain influence over society instead of dragging their feet as much in the face of change. Modern times show us religious fanaticism is revival. The same could be true for industrial Europe. Americans during this time even had its own religious revival in this century in social life.

The Catholic Church could oppose liberalism and socialism and even monarchs eventually. Monarchs don’t always have good relationships with the Pope. The pope might try to utilize advances in technology to modernize the church structure wise and economically while trying to come off as a “people pope”. Think the modern pope public image but add in more religious fanaticism and church influence directly in politics, economics, and social life.

The Catholic Church is really one of the first international organizations of the modern era or even before. This is a time of growing mass media and globalization. The pope even still has most of central Italy and Rome under his direct control for much of this century.

After ww1 in otl Catholic Church did build up a great public image among lower class again due to charity work after war and help they provided. Let’s say they make a focused and genuine effort to provide welfare for lower classes across Catholic world especially in industrializing areas. It isn’t a overnight process but generations of ideological infighting within the church during start of industrial revolution leading to church becoming a Vanguard and holy type figure to lower classes again. Many of church own members start being more from these classes as well.

The church still puts great empathize on hard work but also more on public welfare and republicanism as well. They start seeing the monarchs and nobles as immoral and outdated.

This would also play on nationalism on time. Protestant countries often will be more liberal capitalist ones. Many oppressed Catholics in Ireland. Many Catholics in poor conditions and treated with hate in America by nativist and racist. Many Catholics being people working in factories in cities in US. Prussia and later Germany under its Protestant monarch won’t have best relationships with the church.

The church could start promoting a “Christian Republic”. Where they handle “spiritual” and public well being of society while secular elected government handles everything else. The church only deals with welfare and social aspects of life tied to them. They also often act as unions with their various organizations. Many laws are also unofficially or de facto based on religious ideas of the church. The Church could even take a Switzerland type role among many Catholic countries. A “People’s Church”.

This changes ideology of some otl groups. One is a alt carlist with more republicanism and religious fanaticism to its ideology. The church also takes or subtly encourages terrorist and partisan like tactics against liberal or monarch governments that try to act against the church. For example if a monarch or liberal government tries to seize church property they use dirty tactics then otl to push back. They could win in Spain and Portugal. Also in parts of Italy. Fanatics could also maybe take over France. The religious nature does help it be more universal to wider audience. The church is good at propaganda and twisting history. It has a lot of history to twist its image to people with. They can be more openly opposed to racism and slavery but at same time be more against women’s equality, some sciences(Darwinism), and religious tolerance.

This makes French conquest and integration of much of sub Sahara Africa possible easier especially non Islamic part. The church and France taking a more Latin America and genuine effort in conversion and cultural assimilation of natives. Still brutal at times but more classical imperialism then colonialism. The other Catholic empires do the same. The Catholic Church does have to do a lot of playing sides against each other for there own gains.

They could grow rapidly across Latin America. A few priest could even get democratically elected. The Knight of Columbus and layman groups could also act as armed “security” for missionaries in places like Africa or China especially during the boxer rebellions.
 
Links to ideologies from various TLs
So, mostly because I would have really liked to have found such a thing when I first joined this site, I decided to make a list of links to timelines with their own ideologies. A few notes on the list, I'm avoiding listing ideologies that are broadly similar to real ones (for example, Revivalism is Lithuanian Nazism with the serial numbers filed off, in my opinion) but keeping ones with the same name as OTL if they're significantly different. Also, I'm only linking to specific posts that distill what the ideology is about (more or less). So, Fascism from What Madness is this is out because it doesn't have a distilled ideology post, but Fascism from Separated at Birth gets to stay. It goes without saying that people shouldn't go bumping dead threads but I just wanted to get the information out there. If anybody has any neat ones I've missed I'm hoping this thread can be a robust resource. Fair warning a few of them are mine, but I'm sticking to the ones I actually put serious thought in to.

 
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Check out this TL based around one of the ideologies proposed here.
So something I've been wondering for the past couple of days: what sort of scenario could see one or more of the Chinese Six Schools (Confucianism, Legalism, Taoism, Mohism, Yin-Yang, and Logicians) mature/evolve into competitive political ideologies (in the modern sense) in the wider East Asian region and eventually beyond? Maybe a different Warlord Period at the latest, or perhaps an earlier fall of the Qing? Of course the ultimate accomplishment of such an ideology would essentially be a reverse PRC scenario, namely a western nation reorganizing along the lines of an eastern ideology. I'd say some strain of Neo-Legalism would be the most likely to achieve such a result.
So I decided to put this idea up as an AHC and gave it a week. No one bit, so I decided to give it a go myself, and I'm just about wrapped up. It's not realistic by any means but I enjoyed writing it and I hope it's at least entertaining.
 
Funky Time | All of the weirdest Ideologies Miranda Brawner could think of!
Some silly ideas I've been thinking about, some more plausible than others:
  • Illegalocracy: A government by and for the criminals! Yes, I know what you're thinking: Doesn't this describe pretty much every government ever? Yes, but Illegalocracy would take things in a more... non-traditional direction. The Illegalocrats believe that law and government are inherently evil, and therefore, anything that is illegal or treasonous is good. They managed to get into power largely because everyone assumed they were speaking metaphorically. They weren't. In order to avoid contradicting their own ideology once they got into power, they set up a puppet government to take the blame for everything. It goes like this: If the Illegalocrats want to encourage a certain behavior, they will tell discreetly tell the puppet government to ban that behavior. Then the people, in defiance of their puppet government, will do the behavior more than ever, just to stick it to the Man. Meanwhile, the Illegalocrats sit in the background cackling maniacally and getting high. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. It's one of the few countries where the ruling party is also a banned party, because for something to be good, it must be illegal. Needless to say, relations between the Illegalocracy and its neighbors are... interesting.
  • Senocracy: The government is composed of the oldest people in the country. Cue a surge in the fake-birth-certificate industry.
  • Infantocracy: Officeholders must be 11 years old or younger. And that refers to their actual chronological age, not their maturity level.
  • Old Europeanism: A regime somewhere in Europe latches onto the idea that the Indo-European languages are inherently evil and must be stamped out. Everyone is forced to learn a fabricated rediscovered language from the allegedly utopian time before the arrival of those wacky steppe nomads from Ukraine. Has heavy "noble savage" overtones.
  • Obfuscatarianism: What the unlenlightened masses call "incoherent babbling" is actually the highest form of wisdom! Demonstration majority tape usually purchase refuse disagree other propose, face? Dozen careful. Heel, fifteen strategy property, armed noise wealth standard interpretation actor, busy. (These words were chosen by a pseudorandom number generator ṯ̈́̽ͅḣe̲̦̥ ̄in̬̪s͇̙cr̯ͫǖ͒t̳̥͚͆̏͑ã̭̜̩̔̅bͅl̈̉̓e͓̘ͤͣ ͈ͨwǐl̥̻̦l̙̝ ͚̪̜̊̄͆o͈͆f ̖͙͔th̺̜͊ͪẻ̈ ̭̔̆ͅC̦osm̊ͦͤo̠̫͐ͫs̟͕͌ͧ .)
  • Antimonetarism: Destory all the money, and all our problems will be solved! What's that? The kids are using bread as currency now? Then destroy all the food too! That'll teach 'em!
  • Humancentipedism: The folks who think the world would be a better place if everyone's bodies were conjoined so that we can more easily exchange our aeonic cytheropneumatocthonofluids.
  • National Humorism: No, not a government run by stand-up comedians. If only. No, this is an ideology where people are sorted into castes based on the four humors of classical western medicine. How does the government decide which humor you belong to? Magick.Just remember, if your local haemomancer decides that you're suffering from an excess of blood, then watch out.
  • Australopithecism: They believe Australopithecus Afarensis (lived c. 4,000,000 to 2,900,000 BCE) was the pinnacle of evolution, and it is our moral duty to evolve back to that "ideal form". When asked how exactly they plan to carry out this "guided re-evolution", they tend to change the subject.
  • Floresiensism: Same as the above, but they read Lord of the Rings too many times.
  • Hollowearthian National Adventurism (Anti-Revisionist): They spend a staggering portion of the nation's wealth on sending expeditions to "The World Within". Hwaette didst thou say'st, sceptick? Thyne inuestmente shalle bee return'd to thee, swell'd inn sise bye an hundr'dfold!
  • Fortissimocracy: A group of people who sincerely believe that the louder you say something, the truer it becomes! There's no way that could possibly backfire on them!
 
So I decided to put this idea up as an AHC and gave it a week. No one bit, so I decided to give it a go myself, and I'm just about wrapped up. It's not realistic by any means but I enjoyed writing it and I hope it's at least entertaining.
Ok, I love this. I just kind of skimmed through it, but it was very interesting. At least the parts which I read.
 
Incanidad (a sort of Inca/Peruvian Nationalism)
Incanidad

During the Peruvian Revolution (1925-1936) a new attitude began to emerge, first in the countryside in revolutionary circles, that rejected the prevalent admiration for European society and dismissive attitudes towards Peru's indigenous heritage. As the revolution drew to a close in its final years, this new movement was embraced and utilized to create a new, populist, nationalism by the Partido Revolucionario Político y Social (PRPS) who emerged victorious from the war. Coined by President Fernando Huancahari Garcia, Incanidad stressed the importance of Peru's Incan heritage in the creation of the Peruvian nation. According to Garcia, an undeniable Incan spirit has always remained with the nation and its people, but had been supressed by the Peruvian elite, and by foreign powers. It meant Peru not only was unique compared to the West and much of South America, its people were superior. PRPS saw it's neighbours in Ecuador, Colombia, Chile and Bolivia as nations with peoples with that same Incan blood, or at least with some regions that shared Incan heritage, and it drove policies of supporting Incanidad movements in those countries, or attempts to take land by force. In Peru it saw a generation of Peruvian artists inspired by indigenous art, indigenous languages were spoken more regularly and indigenous names became highly popular.
 
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@riskyrofl That sounds cool. Would be interesting if they promoted the iconic quipu writing system that originated in that area. There would likely be a resurgence of indigenous religious as well, perhaps including an attempt to create a new syncretic religion that would bring together the various nations - the Quechua, Aymara, and more. I wonder what their attitude toward other Native American groups outside the Andes area would be.
 
@riskyrofl That sounds cool. Would be interesting if they promoted the iconic quipu writing system that originated in that area. There would likely be a resurgence of indigenous religious as well, perhaps including an attempt to create a new syncretic religion that would bring together the various nations - the Quechua, Aymara, and more. I wonder what their attitude toward other Native American groups outside the Andes area would be.
I'd definitely be interested in what someone with more knowledge of South American/Andean/Peruvian history could do with the topic. I was mainly inspired after learning about the shifts in nationalism in early 20th century Latin America, from eurocentric to more pluralistic, which happened in places like Post-Revolution Mexico and Brazil under Vargas, but i'm not hugely knowledgeable on Peru.
 
I'd definitely be interested in what someone with more knowledge of South American/Andean/Peruvian history could do with the topic. I was mainly inspired after learning about the shifts in nationalism in early 20th century Latin America, from eurocentric to more pluralistic, which happened in places like Post-Revolution Mexico and Brazil under Vargas, but i'm not hugely knowledgeable on Peru.
I came across a few years ago with a different version of social Darwinism that establishes that Latinos or mestizos are the final race of humanity and that all existing races are just transitory races for the so-called '' future race '' being a kind of Darwinism social interracial

MEXICO: This ideology could have been implemented in Mexico if the person who introduced it had won the presidential election

BRAZIL: Another place that I think more likely that this ideology could have been implemented would be Brazil, which already has a long history of ''racial democracy'' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_democracy
And there was a movement in the 1930s called integralism that preached something similar
 
Corrective Malthusism- This ideology is based on Malthusian thought of population dynamics, and believe that population control supercede individual liberties. They favor policies that mandate a household's size, not only allow but mandate contraception in various instances, tax policies that disincentive having children , and procreation licsening requiring property requirements, payment of a fee, and various tests of education. They are still favor international peace.

Militant Malthusism - a branch corrective Malthusianism which favors war as a population control mechanic and spreading the reach they have to enact population control.
 
Theoliberalism
How does this one sound...

Theoliberalism
The philosophy of theoliberalism aims to combine theocracy with liberalism. On the theocratic side, religion is at the heart of theoliberal society and government. All state ceremonies are religious in nature, involving prayer, worship, sacrifices to the Gods, healing rituals, and countless other ways of integrating the spiritual into the political. Believers in theoliberalism, generally speaking, maintain that the scriptures of their religion are completely true, when correctly interpreted, and that Gods and other spiritual entities play an active role in earthly affairs. Typically, but not always, theoliberals also believe that while there are strong and benevolent Gods watching over us, there are also powerful evil Gods or spirits seeking to enslave the world to their will. Since the beginning of time, the forces of good and evil have been locked in a great struggle in which the fate of the whole universe is at stake. In theoliberalism, the good Gods, despite their immense fortitude, cannot win the battle against evil on their own, so they need the help of their children - the human race. An in order for humanity to most effectively help the good Gods triumph over evil, each individual must be able to fulfill their true potential.

This brings us to the liberal side of theoliberalism. Since all people have a role to play in winning the war against the Evil Ones, it naturally follows that people must not be held back by selfish tyrants and oligarchs who wish to treat the people like property. Therefore, all tyrants and their enforcers, whatever ideology they claim to subscribe to, must be swiftly deposed and punished. Even in cases when authoritarian governments are effective at raising the general standard of living, they are too prone to corruption to be trusted with power. Theoliberals are thus strong advocates of the right to vote, the right to a fair trial, the right to go on strike and peacefully protest, and other policies that they see as safeguards against overreach by governments, corporations, or demagogues. When it comes to religion, the theoliberals are somewhat more authoritarian, as they make it quite clear that their religion is the one that is most pleasing to the Gods, and their policies reflect this. In their eyes, all other faiths are somewhat further removed from the truth, but they still exist for a reason. That reason is usually to provide some element that can be incorporated into the dominant faith. In line with this view of other faiths as inferior but necessary, legislatures and government agencies in theoliberal states tend to set aside some seats for non-dominant religions, so that their members can feel included in the policies of the state, despite being unable to legally challenge the hegemony of the dominant religion.
 

AspieMan

Banned
Theo-democracy. A religious democracy similar to the time of the Hebrew Judges between the time of Moses and Saul, the first King of Israel.
 
I'm kind of thinking about making political ideologies based on early modern psychological paradigms, would this be the thread or would it fit into the other bigger thread (not too sure the distinction between the two) ?
 
I'm kind of thinking about making political ideologies based on early modern psychological paradigms, would this be the thread or would it fit into the other bigger thread (not too sure the distinction between the two) ?
This thread is for stuff you make up (aside from my post linking to other ones from this site), the other thread is for things that actually existed OTL but never broke out into the mainstream. Unless the early modern psychological paradigms were the basis of a fringe political movement in real life they'd go here.
 
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Psychological Onirico-Parliamentarism
Psychological Onirico-Parliamentarism

CGJung.jpg

A political ideology inspired by the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung who lived across the second half of the the XIXth century and the first half of the XXth century and worked for a while in collaboration with the more famour Sigmund Freud. The Jungian paradigm shared some commonalities with Freudian psychoanalysis in that it assumed the existence of an influential unconscious, of impulses and drives, of the meaning bearing function of dreams, and of the re-enactment of meaningful past relationships in new meaningful encounters (a.k.a transference). It was also distinct from Freudian theory in assuming the existence of a Collective Unconscious that was common to all humans and contained shared instinctive patterns called Archetypes that could be expressed through acts, words and symbols, and in that sense, focused more on the creative capacity of humans to build new symbols and myths. It also was less interested in sexuality and more in the psychological tenants of religion.


IOTL, Jung and his paradigm got actually a bit involved in politics during the rise of nazi Germany. On one hand, Jung was quite in awe (and later horrified) with the capacity of Hitler to master symbols and incarnate archetypal figures, on the other, the nazis found in his theory the opportunity to turn the Collective Unconscious into a racial unconscious that would fit will within their doctrine of aryan superiority (and most importantly, he was, unlike Freud, not Jewish). Ensues a whole mess with him accepting a big job by the nazis in the 30s, some will say to have a position where he could protect his Jewish colleagues, others will say to have enough influence to diminish Freud’s influence, whichever way, his appointment didn’t fit that well nazi expectations and he resigned before WWII. After WWII broke out, he was contacted by the OSS (American secret services) and worked as a secret agent for the Allies, providing psychological profiles, including a report predicting that Hitler would end up committing suicide.


ITTL, the Jungian paradigm catches on in the realms of politics in many democratic countries and relies on a central tenet: to pass laws that benefits the multitude outside them, politicians must tap deep into the multitude within themselves.

Political System: Ensues the following principles of politics :

  • The Great Dream : Politicians can only take part in an election if they formulate a Great Dream that came to them one night and demonstrates that politics is their True Calling. This Great Dream and its interpretation by the politician are passed under review by a council composed of 50% elected officials to a similar post and 50% randomly picked citizens. Any attempts to plagiarise dreams from other politicians leads to direct unelectability.

  • Archetypal Incarnation : for the highest offices, such as President, the election is done in 4 rounds. For the 1st and 2nd round, think French system (1st round to pick the two main candidates, 2nd round to choose between the two). For the 3rd round all citizens write in the voting booth a single word they associate with the new President, and after a week of national semantic analysis, all associations are organised into lexico-semantic clusters, and the two clusters that are the most popular in number of associations are both summarised into a single world. The two resulting words, or Archetypes, are presented for the 4th round of vote. The winning archetype will be associated with the President. Indeed the President can only be President if they incarnate something that echoes with the psyche of the people.

    If the newly elected President is truly popular, then they may get in office with an archetype such as Robert “the Just” Bronstow or Philippa “the Generous” Kriesling, but if they got elected because they were the least worse choice out of two terrible choices for the major part of the population, then they may end up as President Timothy “the Knobhead” Gavinson.

  • The Challenge of Intuitive Debating : Rationality is a good basis for politics, but to be a worthy representative of the people, politicians must be able to venture beyond their rationality. This is exemplified in the practice of Intuitive Debate, which unfolds in 3 distinct stages (about 1 hour each).
    • The 1st Stage (the Rational Stage) is a classical debate where politicians can use notes, answer to the questions of experts and members of the public and criticise each other’s positions and policies.
    • The 2nd Stage (the Intuitive Stage) is pure improvisation: politicians have no notes, no questions, no themes, they are merely on stage with each other and… whatever must emerge in that moment will emerge (though physical violence is forbidden).
    • The 3rd Stage (the Synthetic Stage) is the opportunity for the experts and the public to ask questions about the 2nd stage, comparing it and contrasting it with the 1st Stage. At the end, the public votes, if the majority of voters is satisfied with the debate, then it is considered concluded, if the majority of voters is not satisfied. Then the debate must resume on the next day for another 3 hours.
The goal here is to push the politicians away from their well structured rational programmes and force them to tap into their creative depths, which are deemed to provide a necessary counterbalance in order to build a complete picture of their political intentions.

Social Organisation
In Onirico-parliamentarism, society is organised around the capacity to create in ways that carry meaning.
  • Creative Duty : It is part of the duty of every citizen to engage in creative practice, whether it be art, crafts, or anything that carries uniqueness and novelty. Scientific and Artistic discipline are constantly encouraged to cross over.
  • Mixed Education: this crossover is also present in the education system, based around a principle of 50% rationality and 50% irrationality. E.g : a History exam would be 50% Essay on a predefined theme, 50% creating an alternate history timeline. A Physics Exams would be 50% solving thermodynamics equations, 50% creating an addition to Newtonian Laws.
  • Meaning Seeking: the culture celebrates the capacity to seek, create, and find meaning in all endeavours. Individuals who are considered too shallow or too materialistic tend to be patronised. A lack of capacity to interact with one’s inner world is seen as a hurdle towards everyday socialisation : “how can you relate to me if you cannot relate to yourself?”.

Good and Bad forms

Individualist good guys: “Be who you were always meant to be”. This is a society that is all about self-actualisation. True harmony is achieved when every citizen excels in a form of art or practice that uses their talents to the fullest. Life is about finding one’s true calling, and then putting one’s energy and skills into forever pushing this calling further. A true great dream is never achieved, but always pursued. State ensures healthy work-life balance, public education until 21, and living wage for artists.

Collectivist good guys: “ True meaning is shared meaning” . This is a society that is all about culture. True harmony is achieved when every citizen contributes to the national culture with the fruits of their own creation. Life is about finding one’s true calling, and then putting one’s energy and skills into integrating the products of this calling into the national culture. The true measure of a country’s happiness and achievement is the continuity and constant renewal of its culture. State regulates all wages based on a framework of Unconditional Lifelong Salary, public education is free for all, and all citizens must take 1 month off work per year to focus on contributing to the national culture.

Individualist bad guys: “ True meaning is never granted, it must be earned. “ . This is a society that is all about excellence. True harmony is achieved when the most talented citizens are given free reign to turn their dreams into grandiose symbolic achievements, becoming creative leaders, with immense talents and resources at their disposal. Competition is encouraged from a very early age to ensure that the children with the best intuition and creative skills are quickly identified and provided with the education they deserve in order to achieve their masterpieces, be they in science or art. Citizens with Great Dreams but no resources are scorned and encouraged to be more realistic. State oversees the allocation of resources, education is fully privatised, artists who do not contribute to the economy must either find a job, or work for the creative leaders and get a state subsidy.

Collectivist bad guys: “ A citizen’s worth is found in his contribution to the culture”. This is a society that is all about gigantic works. True harmony is achieved when all citizens work together towards the building of a Great Work that will shine for the centuries to come. Life is about being given a role in an art, craft, or science, and work alongside many other citizens into building cultural or scientific creations as designed by one of the great cultural leaders of the country. The Grand Leader is the most meaningful of all Archetypes and the dreams of each citizen converge towards the Grand Leader. The true measure of a country’s achievement is the scale of its cultural sites and scientific facilities. State allocates children in specialised education curriculum depending on their assessment, all work is coordinated and paid by the state.
 
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