Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun
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That would ensure it could survive for a couple more years but having it essentially be a company thing was what protected it better since they weren't "officially" sponsored by the government and thus it didn't technically break the truce between the newly independent Portugual and the United Provinces, which is also the reasons local forces as well as others from Brazil were used to drive the Dutch out in order to not break the peace by using troops from the mainland, given a degree of plausibility of denial.
we still haven't got to that point in the tl yet and a lot of things could change between then. One difference as I've said is that the Portugese get beat by the Spanish since the thirty years war isn't as damaging to the spanish economy.
But the Spanish didn't fight in the 30 years old war directly, rather they were still occupied with surpressing the Dutch independence movement even if they did send troops to help, and even then they were already bleeding money, not to mention France, the United Provinces and Britain all will monetarily support the Portuguese independence war(who will have support from basically all sectors of society given what happened in Brazil and their crumbling far east empire and realized the Iberian Union wasn't working out for them)
OK. Finally caught up!
Great TL. I've always thought Tokugawa's isolation was a bad idea, and thought something like this would have been Japan's best bet. Thanks for writing this.
Re: Taiwan. I don't get why Japanese peasants aren't/ haven't been loaded on boats and shipped over.
Firstly, the Daimyos have the power to do it whether the peasants were interested or no. And second, many peasants might leap n at the chance. Specifically younger sons who have no future in Japan and no chance for a family there.
The Yamato church.
Has a very significant problem. Unlike Protestant churches who can ordain their own clergy if necessary, and mostly don't have bishops, traditional/ sacramental / apostolic churches make a big thing of Apostolic Succession and hierarchy. Only Bishops can ordain priests, and it takes three bishops to ordain a new one.
As I understand it, at the time of the expulsion of the Roman church, there was only a single bishop (Pérez de Guzmán) who was clearly Iberian (given the name), and would have been expelled.
Sure, the local priests can elect some of their own to take the role of a bishop, but that ordination won't be recognized as valid by any traditional church.
Note that even breakaway churches like Anglicans (under Henry viii), Old Catholics, Russian Old Believers, and the modern "North American Anglican Church" got themselves enough bishops to make their orders valid, one way or another.
In some ways, this Yamoto Church will be like Methodists who have self-proclaimed (initially) bishops.
I'm sure that the Roman's have no interest in regularizing the Yamato hierarchy - and even if they did, it would come with enough strings attached that the Japanese government wouldn't allow it.
Great TL. I've always thought Tokugawa's isolation was a bad idea, and thought something like this would have been Japan's best bet. Thanks for writing this.
Re: Taiwan. I don't get why Japanese peasants aren't/ haven't been loaded on boats and shipped over.
Firstly, the Daimyos have the power to do it whether the peasants were interested or no. And second, many peasants might leap n at the chance. Specifically younger sons who have no future in Japan and no chance for a family there.
The Yamato church.
Has a very significant problem. Unlike Protestant churches who can ordain their own clergy if necessary, and mostly don't have bishops, traditional/ sacramental / apostolic churches make a big thing of Apostolic Succession and hierarchy. Only Bishops can ordain priests, and it takes three bishops to ordain a new one.
As I understand it, at the time of the expulsion of the Roman church, there was only a single bishop (Pérez de Guzmán) who was clearly Iberian (given the name), and would have been expelled.
Sure, the local priests can elect some of their own to take the role of a bishop, but that ordination won't be recognized as valid by any traditional church.
Note that even breakaway churches like Anglicans (under Henry viii), Old Catholics, Russian Old Believers, and the modern "North American Anglican Church" got themselves enough bishops to make their orders valid, one way or another.
In some ways, this Yamoto Church will be like Methodists who have self-proclaimed (initially) bishops.
I'm sure that the Roman's have no interest in regularizing the Yamato hierarchy - and even if they did, it would come with enough strings attached that the Japanese government wouldn't allow it.
My thinking on it is that the Japanese focused on expeditions and building up their fort so putting ppl in wasn't as important, and there're much more Chinese going to taiwan than any peasants the daimyos can throw at them I'd think. There's like 10,000 chinese in Taiwan already in 1630.
Yeah. I think there'll be a bunch of Christians in Kyushu doing their version of roman Catholic because of it.
Chapter 46: Iberian-Japanese War Part XI - Securing the South
Chapter 46: Iberian-Japanese War Part XI - Securing the South
In the south, sultan Muhammad Kudarat followed up his victory at Kalasungay with a successful siege of Cagayan de Oro. This attempt was aided by the Dutch contingent in his army, who had brought along sufficient artillery to use against the city’s walls, trenches, and palisades where by October, Bartolome Diaz Barerra and some of his men were forced to abandon the city and retreat to Butuan in the northeast. The sultan then marched back to Lamitan, coming to the rescue of his besieged capital for the second time in the year. Once again, the palisades and fortifications on the beaches had been overrun by the Spanish and the fighting on land had devolved into guerrilla warfare in the forests and villages surrounding the capital. Kudarat, arriving in November, retook control of the peninsula to the north of the island and harassed the ships directly blockading the city through night raids on swift boats and cannonfire from the peninsula. In early December, Dutch ships arrived from Jakarta and caught the Spanish fleet by surprise, sinking several of de Amezqueta’s ships and breaking the blockade on the island city. Now nearly pinned on all sides, Juan de Amezqueta ordered his men on land to return to the ships a few days later and sail to Cebu. Enemy fire and harassment, however, prevented many ships from doing so, leaving many men stranded on the island to be picked off or captured by the Dutch-Maguindanaon forces.
1632 came to a close on the southern front with the attempted landing of a Tidorese force of 1,000 on the southern coast of Mindanao, only to be intercepted and driven off by a small Dutch-Javanese fleet. Although the Dutch and Maguindanoans had broken the encirclement of Lamitan twice and made territorial gains in northern Mindanao, Kudarat’s sea raiders in the Visayas had been neutralized and Caraga had been retaken by the Spanish. Additionally, Spanish-Portuguese naval power could still easily fend off Dutch and Maguindanaon ships even with tremendous pressure by Azuchi in Luzon, further securing supply lines to all remaining Spanish outposts on Mindanao. The land campaign of 1633 in the south therefore would be marked by prolonged sieges and much attrition.
Kudarat left Lamitan in February 1633 with an army of 10,000, consisting of his own warriors, Dutch soldiers, and Javanese auxiliaries. He first targeted the cities of Dapitan and Iligan on the northwestern coast of Mindanao, and these two already being close to the core of the sultanate enabled their relatively straightforward capture by the sultan’s forces by the end of April. Butuan and Caraga, which lay to the east of Cagayan de Oro, would prove more difficult to take, as Kudarat would once again face Barrera’s army in the field, the latter also numbering 10,000 after gathering new recruits and Spanish veteran reinforcements in Butuan and now matching towards Cagayan de Oro. The sultan arrived in the city in early May, while days later Barrera arrived and made camp around the mouth of the Bigaan River. Over the next few days, native warriors on both sides engaged in hit-and-run raids, with the Maguindanaons winning most of these skirmishes. Barerra would subsequently withdraw to a more secure location between the Bigaan and Boracay rivers [1] flanked by mountainous terrain to the south, constructing a line of wooden stakes on the most narrow point. Kudarat would follow him, setting up camp on the eastern banks of the Bigaan River.
1632 came to a close on the southern front with the attempted landing of a Tidorese force of 1,000 on the southern coast of Mindanao, only to be intercepted and driven off by a small Dutch-Javanese fleet. Although the Dutch and Maguindanoans had broken the encirclement of Lamitan twice and made territorial gains in northern Mindanao, Kudarat’s sea raiders in the Visayas had been neutralized and Caraga had been retaken by the Spanish. Additionally, Spanish-Portuguese naval power could still easily fend off Dutch and Maguindanaon ships even with tremendous pressure by Azuchi in Luzon, further securing supply lines to all remaining Spanish outposts on Mindanao. The land campaign of 1633 in the south therefore would be marked by prolonged sieges and much attrition.
Kudarat left Lamitan in February 1633 with an army of 10,000, consisting of his own warriors, Dutch soldiers, and Javanese auxiliaries. He first targeted the cities of Dapitan and Iligan on the northwestern coast of Mindanao, and these two already being close to the core of the sultanate enabled their relatively straightforward capture by the sultan’s forces by the end of April. Butuan and Caraga, which lay to the east of Cagayan de Oro, would prove more difficult to take, as Kudarat would once again face Barrera’s army in the field, the latter also numbering 10,000 after gathering new recruits and Spanish veteran reinforcements in Butuan and now matching towards Cagayan de Oro. The sultan arrived in the city in early May, while days later Barrera arrived and made camp around the mouth of the Bigaan River. Over the next few days, native warriors on both sides engaged in hit-and-run raids, with the Maguindanaons winning most of these skirmishes. Barerra would subsequently withdraw to a more secure location between the Bigaan and Boracay rivers [1] flanked by mountainous terrain to the south, constructing a line of wooden stakes on the most narrow point. Kudarat would follow him, setting up camp on the eastern banks of the Bigaan River.
Salmon=Dutch/Maguindanaon, light orange=Spanish
The first two days of intermittent warfare produced no result, with Kudarat unable to break through the wooden stakes manned by arquebusiers or capture the hills to the south, where Barrera had placed 1,000 men. On the morning of the third day, however, the sultan sent 500 Dutch cavalry and 500 native warriors down the Bigaan River and around the hills straight towards the Spanish camp. This contingent crashed into the unprotected left flank of the Spanish force, throwing Barrera’s army in disarray. Seeing the ensuing chaos, Muhammad Kudarat ordered a general charge of his main army and overcame the Spanish defenses, forcing a complete Spanish rout. Barrera managed to retreat but had lost half of his army and would be unable to gather enough men to go on another offensive.
Despite this victory, the Spanish still maintained naval dominance and utilized it to reprovision their remaining outposts repeatedly, raid the northern coastline, and launch periodic sorties to disrupt Kudarat’s campaign. This only delayed the inevitable, and on October 1st, Barrera evacuated Butuan, the last Spanish outpost, after a prolonged siege by Kudarat and his army.
In addition to assisting Muhammad Kudarat, the VOC poured resources into two other endeavors. The first was the defense of Malacca against a Portuguese invasion force sent from Goa in April 1633, consisting of 20 fustas [2] and 5 galleons. Having broken the Dutch blockade on Goa the previous year with the assistance of de Oquendo’s fleet as the latter sailed towards Manila, the Portuguese successfully reconnected its Indian possessions to Lisbon, even being sent some ships, although significantly less than what Madrid sent to Manila. Nevertheless, this assistance gave Goa the resources to besiege Malacca. Led by Pedro da Silva, the fleet entered the vicinity of Malacca on May 13th and began shelling the recently repaired fortifications after expelling the small Dutch fleet. Malaccan cannons answered back with fury and even sank a few of the fustas and soon the 4th siege in 2 years grinded into a stalemate, with the Portuguese making scant progress. Even the Portuguese-Indian force that had landed was unsuccessful against the Dutch-Johori defenders. A month into the siege, a fresh Dutch-Javanese fleet from Batavia sailed to Malacca’s aid, and this ultimately tipped the balance against the Portuguese, whose force was simply too small to overcome both the fleet and the Dutch, Johori, and local defenders. Da Silva would sail back to Goa with nothing to show but casualties.
Despite this victory, the Spanish still maintained naval dominance and utilized it to reprovision their remaining outposts repeatedly, raid the northern coastline, and launch periodic sorties to disrupt Kudarat’s campaign. This only delayed the inevitable, and on October 1st, Barrera evacuated Butuan, the last Spanish outpost, after a prolonged siege by Kudarat and his army.
In addition to assisting Muhammad Kudarat, the VOC poured resources into two other endeavors. The first was the defense of Malacca against a Portuguese invasion force sent from Goa in April 1633, consisting of 20 fustas [2] and 5 galleons. Having broken the Dutch blockade on Goa the previous year with the assistance of de Oquendo’s fleet as the latter sailed towards Manila, the Portuguese successfully reconnected its Indian possessions to Lisbon, even being sent some ships, although significantly less than what Madrid sent to Manila. Nevertheless, this assistance gave Goa the resources to besiege Malacca. Led by Pedro da Silva, the fleet entered the vicinity of Malacca on May 13th and began shelling the recently repaired fortifications after expelling the small Dutch fleet. Malaccan cannons answered back with fury and even sank a few of the fustas and soon the 4th siege in 2 years grinded into a stalemate, with the Portuguese making scant progress. Even the Portuguese-Indian force that had landed was unsuccessful against the Dutch-Johori defenders. A month into the siege, a fresh Dutch-Javanese fleet from Batavia sailed to Malacca’s aid, and this ultimately tipped the balance against the Portuguese, whose force was simply too small to overcome both the fleet and the Dutch, Johori, and local defenders. Da Silva would sail back to Goa with nothing to show but casualties.
Drawing of a fusta
The other was the invasion of Tidore in order to knock the sultanate out of the war. Hendrik Brouwer, the governor-general of the Dutch East Indies, not only organized a sizeable naval force in Batavia to be led by Jacques Specx but also brought the Ternate sultanate, the VOC-allied regional rival of the Tidorese, into the conflict, promising Sultan Hamza territorial gains from Tidore. Specx left Batavia in April, heading straight towards Tidore with negligible opposition. By then, Ternatean and Tidorese ships had engaged in intermittent conflict for a month, with the Ternateans slowly gaining the upper hand as Tidorese military strength had been drained by its involvement in the greater Iberian-Japanese war. On May 8th, Specx arrived on the island of Tidore and easily blockaded it with the help of the Ternateans. Ultimately, the siege would last only days as in the face of overwhelming military force combined with increasing dissatisfaction with the Tidorese sultan Ngarolamo, the sultanate’s nobility turned on their sovereign on May 15th and killed him [3]. The nobility then installed Gorontalo, member of a rival lineage within the Tidorese royal family, as the new sultan and surrendered to Specx. Through subsequent negotiations, the VOC and eventually the Japanese would extract mercantile privileges in the sultanate and Ternate would gain Obi Island, while the Tidorese would sever their alliance with the Spanish, bringing the sultanate under the influence of the Dutch.
By the fall of 1633, the southern front had concluded in an indisputable victory for pro-Japanese forces. By this time, the Japanese had forced the Spanish to the negotiating table.
[1]: ITTL name for the Cugman river
[2]: Small galley ship from North Africa and extensively used by the Portuguese
[3]: Ngarolamo was overthrown IOTL in 1634.
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Spain still held Manila and Luzon south of Cabanatuan, however. We may see an East Timor-type situation here, if the Spaniards still have the resources and luck to defend it at this point in time.
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Yeah I do think it's plausible that the Spaniards somehow retain control of what they have left of Luzon but I do think it's possible that the Japanese take it when the Spanish are even weaker, and I think they won't ever ally with them because the Spanish would already be significantly weaker.
It's good seeing them take over so much of the Philippines and I'd think the Japanese would soon be sending their surplus nobility to Luzon and beiritou as governers, and I think we'd see a Chinese move on beiritou be repulsed by a reformed Japanese navy which would be an insane engagement.
PS would we see Japan telling the Spanish that Mindanao are theirs and being close allies to the sultanate to block off Spanish expansion.
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Why though? The Iberian states are fatally weakened of, if not booted out altogether from the region, and it's the Dutch who Azuchi will now have as the preeminent competition after the war.
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I think it would be interesting if japan asks for macao and singapore in the peace deal. With them being more trade orientated, they would see the need to have a port near the straits of malacca. Taking macao would massively weaken the Portuguese, cut off the flow of Chinese goods, along with being a form of revenge for the slave trade they started. Going back to how much the Japanese would colonize from north america, i don't think california would be possible with Spain losing their aisian possessions. They are probably going to double down on their new world possessions, this would probably make them stronger in the long run as they would only have to worry about one contient. Maintaining troops and a navy in asia, would be super expensive and difficult compared to the new world.
While that's true but like @IslandCarto said, if Japan and the Dutch weakens the Iberians in Asia they could focus on their American colonies and actually be a threat to the British and French colonies, as for the Dutch they would also continue their expansion in Asia but they'll probably focus on trade like Japan until other Europeans like the Brits and French that's is when they'll start colonizing in SEA but with Africa also being important as for trading, slaves, and soon-to colonize for it's resources so... yeah. Also if/when the Dutch do form the Dutch East Indies or Japan expanded their influence further south, they'll probably have it be more like a federated Indonesia with the multiple ethnic and religious groups while staying a united but loose nation to counter other European and soon-to-be American influence.
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Singapore is technically currently being a (neglected) part of Johor, which is an ally of the Japanese...
Perhaps a fort and a trading post perhaps?
The Iberian powers being booted out of SEA in this manner isn't really that different from otl tho. Would it really change things that much?
I think ittl Singapore could start as a treaty port as a sign of the friendship of the two nations ye.
Honestly... who knows but I'm pretty sure that would force them to mainly focus on Europe and their non-Asian colonies.
It was also done 200-300 years earlier than otl, their also wasn't a regional naval power that could match the Europeans until WWII. This war could set the tone for the rest of history with only the Dutch having any power in eastern asia, it could become the like the Portugal-England alliance. This i think could lead to the Dutch colonizing Australia as they have no competition than the japanese, with them focusing on the pacific and north america regions.