Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun

I'm pretty sure the ppl in Hokkaido (especially the nobles) would want to get rich, and if they're the first to get to sea otters they'd make a shit ton of money and want to expand their hunting grounds as they explore the sea of ohtosk and the Aleutians.

Yep. Japan can field navies and armies much more easily than russia. I'd think it'd be easy to get infantrymen and sailors from the settlers of hokkaido/

ye I think it'd work well. Maybe Britain also takes bits of sumatra.

Not making as much profit as the trade in the south has no meaning when exploiting it makes the area around hokkaido much more lucrative. Considering the Dutch would really like the sea otter fur that the japanese get around the kurils it'd pay for the settling of siberia and alaska (and exploit beavers in Manchuria) and act as a good reason to kick the russians out. It isn't a zero sum game where the entire nation moves in one direction, the Japanese up north want to have opportunities too. Would they garner less attention than SEA? Yeah. But it would be enough to snuff out Russian coastal control in the Far East.

tbf thinking Russia would get to the pacific coast is very deterministic too. Japan ittl has a lot of resources to explore the north seas and also the connection to the europeans to want to export the furs of sea otters (which was seen as the best fur around, and the ainu would be giving various pelts as gifts to the Japanese, so I'd think the dutch would notice) and would make hokkaido a better place to immigrate to than otl, which is good for further colonisation of the region (Canada was settled for the fur trade). Also, the Japanese don't gain much by trading with the Russians since the trans siberian railway isn't built, and Russian control over the region is nominal. Japan makes their own guns, and they can hunt the best fur they could find in the Kurils. Instead, Japan's primary directive it to prevent the Russians from exploiting that resource that the Japanese are exploiting. This makes conflict much more likely, and that's why I think Japan would try to lock out Russian oceanic access to prevent Russian sailors from hunting sea otters, which would lead to conflict over the coastal regions of the Sea of Ohtosk.

It's more about preventing the Russians from getting to the sea otter areas as I don't think the Russians would care about Japanese demands at first since they'd not know the Japanese are there. Then the situation escalates.

China won't be a prize until the middle to late 19th century, you're talking about things two centuries earlier. Japan won't have the power to get anything on mainland china, even if the navy of China is relatively weak. China did have comparable cannonry and breech loading matchlocks at that time, and as the battle of fort zeelandia showed they could fight the Dutch effectively too. It was the later closing off which made China progressively weaker until they could no longer resist the Europeans. While I think China when weak is very ineffective but at that time it wasn't the case. tbf it makes the later Qing armies with swords fighting the europeans even more shocking really. When China skirmished against the Cossaks they definitely won the battle too.

ooh that's interesting would there be a marriage between the Siamese and the Honjo clan? It would bind Siam and Japan together which would be good for both countries.
I still disagree, the otter fur was found around the Kurils and Sakhalin but not in the mainland Siberia meaning that outside of some expeditions I don't see the japanese staying there definitely, because what other furs where in the region could already be found in both Japan and Manchuria and Korea (beaver which was highly prized alongside foxes) so if they really want to get rich trying for those areas would be ideal, especially since Japan attacked Korea IOTL so it wouldn't be unprecedented.

And outside of agriculture and some natural resources like coal, Hokkaido already wasn't very rich and was one of the main reasons the japanese took so Damm long to actually settle and control the place because they didn't see anything of value there. I don't see why the Lords of the controlled areas would act any different to again, go in uncharted waters and territory they little to nothing about in the hopes of finding some furs that could maybe become a temporary station before they overhunt the animals and go back to Japan.

Why would the Russians not know about the japanese? They already trade with the Dutch a lot trough the Baltic and would know about them (as most of Europe did), considering how the Russians were careful to keep decent borders with China and Korea (only getting territory because of their weakness later on) they would be wise enough to approach the japanese carefully and attempt a diplomatic approach.

And this actually ties in with another point, that if they get at least amicable relations, Japan will simply not need to expand in Siberia either because of economic reasons or simple diplomacy, the Russians can't and don't want to threaten them and settle some unknown land with furs that while good, can be found in other places like Manchuria. There's literally no reason for Japan to start a conflict with them because they don't NEED to
 
I still disagree, the otter fur was found around the Kurils and Sakhalin but not in the mainland Siberia meaning that outside of some expeditions I don't see the japanese staying there definitely, because what other furs where in the region could already be found in both Japan and Manchuria and Korea (beaver which was highly prized alongside foxes) so if they really want to get rich trying for those areas would be ideal, especially since Japan attacked Korea IOTL so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
It's that I think it's very likely for Russia to get to Kamchatka and downwards to the sea otter fields which would cut into the Japanese noble's main source of wealth, and piss off the Japanese enough to want to keep the Russians away from the coast.

I agree that Japan would try to trade with the Jurchens and Koreans though, as the furs there would be good, although considering the American beaver population idk why the far east has so little beavers. Hell I could see Japan introducing beavers to areas where they weren't before like Hokkaido as they get deeper into the fur business. The reason why I said they wouldn't directly annex them is because China would also move against them and the Japanese at the time won't want to fight against them and stick to areas beyond Chinese control.
1672939911409.png

Since it's hard to read, red's basically confirmed regions, yellow's 'they should live there but we couldn't find evidence', and beige is the same except for the knob north of kamchatka where a russian expedition reported beavers there. So at that point in time there were beavers in Siberia.

I could see nutria also being spread for their good fur too.
And outside of agriculture and some natural resources like coal, Hokkaido already wasn't very rich and was one of the main reasons the japanese took so Damn long to actually settle and control the place because they didn't see anything of value there. I don't see why the Lords of the controlled areas would act any different to again, go in uncharted waters and territory they little to nothing about in the hopes of finding some furs that could maybe become a temporary station before they overhunt the animals and go back to Japan.
Yeah, but they'd first get the sea otter furs from the Kurils and start charting the Kurils and Kamchatka, and as the habitat of sea otters form a contingent ring from the Kurils to California, it means they'd get to Alaska and eventually BC too. BC is actually very inhabitable with temps that don't go below 0 degrees celsius, and they'd just have to deal with the natives to get the furs.
Why would the Russians not know about the japanese? They already trade with the Dutch a lot trough the Baltic and would know about them (as most of Europe did), considering how the Russians were careful to keep decent borders with China and Korea (only getting territory because of their weakness later on) they would be wise enough to approach the japanese carefully and attempt a diplomatic approach.
I meant it as not knowing the Japanese were in the Far East, since I'd wager they don't know what ocean they were hitting when they got to the Far East other than that they were dealing with China.
And this actually ties in with another point, that if they get at least amicable relations, Japan will simply not need to expand in Siberia either because of economic reasons or simple diplomacy, the Russians can't and don't want to threaten them and settle some unknown land with furs that while good, can be found in other places like Manchuria. There's literally no reason for Japan to start a conflict with them because they don't NEED to.
Russia wants to dominate the Sea of Ohtosk around that area as per otl, and I don't see Japan not doing anything about it. Also that Japan could explore the Kurils around Mid century and find the rich sources of sea otter and then beaver from the tribes.
 
It's that I think it's very likely for Russia to get to Kamchatka and downwards to the sea otter fields which would cut into the Japanese noble's main source of wealth, and piss off the Japanese enough to want to keep the Russians away from the coast.

I agree that Japan would try to trade with the Jurchens and Koreans though, as the furs there would be good, although considering the American beaver population idk why the far east has so little beavers. Hell I could see Japan introducing beavers to areas where they weren't before like Hokkaido as they get deeper into the fur business. The reason why I said they wouldn't directly annex them is because China would also move against them and the Japanese at the time won't want to fight against them and stick to areas beyond Chinese control.
View attachment 800735
Since it's hard to read, red's basically confirmed regions, yellow's 'they should live there but we couldn't find evidence', and beige is the same except for the knob north of kamchatka where a russian expedition reported beavers there. So at that point in time there were beavers in Siberia.

I could see nutria also being spread for their good fur too.

Yeah, but they'd first get the sea otter furs from the Kurils and start charting the Kurils and Kamchatka, and as the habitat of sea otters form a contingent ring from the Kurils to California, it means they'd get to Alaska and eventually BC too. BC is actually very inhabitable with temps that don't go below 0 degrees celsius, and they'd just have to deal with the natives to get the furs.

I meant it as not knowing the Japanese were in the Far East, since I'd wager they don't know what ocean they were hitting when they got to the Far East other than that they were dealing with China.

Russia wants to dominate the Sea of Ohtosk around that area as per otl, and I don't see Japan not doing anything about it. Also that Japan could explore the Kurils around Mid century and find the rich sources of sea otter and then beaver from the tribes.
If that's the case, I do think that Japan getting Alaska and British Columbia is a more interesting path to take, not only does it have gold and it's good for agriculture but it's also full of untapped wildlife and easily defeatable natives, neither Spain, France or Britain have gotten there yet and thus it's perfect for them settling without any trouble.

This will have some interesting effects in the sense of Japan exploring the Pacific and maping it(including contact with Hawaiians and other pacific people) as well as controlling a big chunk of north America given how frontier societies grow.

Also, I literally seen japanese America in only one TL so this is definitely something that should be done more.
 
If that's the case, I do think that Japan getting Alaska and British Columbia is a more interesting path to take, not only does it have gold and it's good for agriculture but it's also full of untapped wildlife and easily defeatable natives, neither Spain, France or Britain have gotten there yet and thus it's perfect for them settling without any trouble.

This will have some interesting effects in the sense of Japan exploring the Pacific and maping it(including contact with Hawaiians and other pacific people) as well as controlling a big chunk of north America given how frontier societies grow.

Also, I literally seen Japanese America in only one TL so this is definitely something that should be done more.
I do agree, idk why ppl don't do Japanese America especially in scenarios where Japan is more successful. The economics and incentives are there after all.

I think control of the coasts would be enough to secure Japanese interests while they trade with the Koreans and Jurchens. Thing is, the Lena River is a good river to demarcate Russian vs Japanese control because the east of the River consists of two major mountain ranges aiding in Japanese defence of the lands. But I could see the Lena-Aldan river being a better demarkation of control though, so it depends on how much the Japanese go into Siberia.
1672947906816.png

(the highlighted river is the Alden river, the Lena river is the wide river that goes to Lake Baikal)
My thoughts on Japanese land in Siberia below. Not the best land, but relatively defensible while keeping the Russians off the coast, while being somewhat profitable due to the fur trade. I don't think the Japanese would be friends with China and the Mongols and I think keeping the Jurchens and Koreans as vassals for now is good for Japan's interests since they can't be too aggressive.
siberia-cities-map.jpeg

or even something like this:
siberia-cities-map.jpeg

the least land I think Japan could work with:
siberia-cities-map.jpeg
 
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With permission from Tadataka, he mandated the growing of mango trees and set strict quotas in every inland settlement, and this led to an unexpectedly profitable enterprise, expanding even beyond the realm with Bireitoan mangos overtime appearing in every corner of the Japanese trade network. They would even become a common dessert on the island.
Errr... wouldn't the mangos spoil before they got eaten?

https://www.doesitgobad.com/how-long-do-mangoes-last/ said:
An unripe mango needs between a day and seven days until it ripens. Once ripe, it lasts about 5 to 7 days in the refrigerator, but only 2 to 3 days if you leave it at room temperature.
 
tbf Dutch Australia would be a fun concept, and the Dutch were there long before anyone else. It'd go against how they colonise stuff tho, which I dislike. The Dutch really didn't do much settler colonialism since it was very company oriented. Maybe the dutch sponsor the french protestants to move to the interior of South Africa or Australia? idk how'd that work. Maybe ostrich feathers become popular earlier and more europeans go to colonise south africa as a result?
IMO the Dutch didn't colonize Australia for so long IRL, I don't see why they'd do it here. What's the incentive?
lol agreeing with each other's good.
;)
Yep. I could see Siam being an important part of the Japanese colonial system. Maybe they try to expand into Burmas too?
I don't think it would be a colony at all. Siam is a great civilization and regional power and Japan is unlikely to have it as a 'colony'. However it may be part of their SOI.

It's that I think it's very likely for Russia to get to Kamchatka and downwards to the sea otter fields which would cut into the Japanese noble's main source of wealth, and piss off the Japanese enough to want to keep the Russians away from the coast.

I agree that Japan would try to trade with the Jurchens and Koreans though, as the furs there would be good, although considering the American beaver population idk why the far east has so little beavers. Hell I could see Japan introducing beavers to areas where they weren't before like Hokkaido as they get deeper into the fur business. The reason why I said they wouldn't directly annex them is because China would also move against them and the Japanese at the time won't want to fight against them and stick to areas beyond Chinese control.
View attachment 800735
Since it's hard to read, red's basically confirmed regions, yellow's 'they should live there but we couldn't find evidence', and beige is the same except for the knob north of kamchatka where a russian expedition reported beavers there. So at that point in time there were beavers in Siberia.

I could see nutria also being spread for their good fur too.

Yeah, but they'd first get the sea otter furs from the Kurils and start charting the Kurils and Kamchatka, and as the habitat of sea otters form a contingent ring from the Kurils to California, it means they'd get to Alaska and eventually BC too. BC is actually very inhabitable with temps that don't go below 0 degrees celsius, and they'd just have to deal with the natives to get the furs.

I meant it as not knowing the Japanese were in the Far East, since I'd wager they don't know what ocean they were hitting when they got to the Far East other than that they were dealing with China.

Russia wants to dominate the Sea of Ohtosk around that area as per otl, and I don't see Japan not doing anything about it. Also that Japan could explore the Kurils around Mid century and find the rich sources of sea otter and then beaver from the tribes.
Yeah I agree. The Japanese are not going to like Russia muscling in on their turf.

I do agree, idk why ppl don't do Japanese America especially in scenarios where Japan is more successful. The economics and incentives are there after all.
I agree but I am still hesitant on California. I think Japan could deffo go for Alaska, BC, Oregon, and Hawaii though.
I think control of the coasts would be enough to secure Japanese interests while they trade with the Koreans and Jurchens. Thing is, the Lena River is a good river to demarcate Russian vs Japanese control because the east of the River consists of two major mountain ranges aiding in Japanese defence of the lands. But I could see the Lena-Aldan river being a better demarkation of control though, so it depends on how much the Japanese go into Siberia.
View attachment 800747
(the highlighted river is the Alden river, the Lena river is the wide river that goes to Lake Baikal)
The Alden works if pushing to Lake Baikal is too far inland for Japan's interests (it may be yes, that is possible).
My thoughts on Japanese land in Siberia below. Not the best land, but relatively defensible while keeping the Russians off the coast, while being somewhat profitable due to the fur trade. I don't think the Japanese would be friends with China and the Mongols and I think keeping the Jurchens and Koreans as vassals for now is good for Japan's interests since they can't be too aggressive.
View attachment 800745
or even something like this:
View attachment 800746
the least land I think Japan could work with:
View attachment 800750
I think the first or second map works best.

Yeah it's kinda too spoilery and also I don't have a super clear cut plan for the scope of Japanese territorial expansion.
Ofc totally understand. I just hope you are considering what @Quinkana and I have been saying.
 
IMO the Dutch didn't colonize Australia for so long IRL, I don't see why they'd do it here. What's the incentive?
Yep which is why I immediately said it's implausible. Which is why I do think British Australia still makes sense because Australia is really not useful until it's been successfully developed.
I don't think it would be a colony at all. Siam is a great civilization and regional power and Japan is unlikely to have it as a 'colony'. However it may be part of their SOI.
I meant it as Siam having a privileged position within Japan's ZOI.
I agree but I am still hesitant on California. I think Japan could deffo go for Alaska, BC, Oregon, and Hawaii though.
Tbf I think Japan will be the second power around in California as per otl Russia and new Spain isn't flooding the area with Mexicans so it's free real estate. It's more a matter of if the BC Japanese could win against the Americans.

It really depends on what ambassador wants really.
The Alden works if pushing to Lake Baikal is too far inland for Japan's interests (it may be yes, that is possible).
Ye I think it's too inland especially when the jurchens and Koreans could be adversarial at times with the backing of China.
I think the first or second map works best.
I personally like the first map the most considering how the Lena-Aldan border's east are mountain ranges and be hard for both Japanese and Russians to cross.
Yeah it's kinda too spoilery and also I don't have a super clear cut plan for the scope of Japanese territorial expansion.
I do hope you do think about the fur trade since it was a really huge part of Europe's economy, and I think Japan would tap into it.
 
Yep which is why I immediately said it's implausible. Which is why I do think British Australia still makes sense because Australia is really not useful until it's been successfully developed.
Yeah but nobody went to Australia cause they thought it was useful originally remember? It started out as a penal colony.
I meant it as Siam having a privileged position within Japan's ZOI.
Ah yeah maybe. They’d probably be quite independent tbh. Siam was a great regional power, very great and very proud.
Tbf I think Japan will be the second power around in California as per otl Russia and new Spain isn't flooding the area with Mexicans so it's free real estate. It's more a matter of if the BC Japanese could win against the Americans.
Possibly yeah but I think there’s no way the USA as we know it exists ITTL personally.

Ye I think it's too inland especially when the jurchens and Koreans could be adversarial at times with the backing of China.
Ah yeah fair. True.
I personally like the first map the most considering how the Lena-Aldan border's east are mountain ranges and be hard for both Japanese and Russians to cross.
Yeah I agree. Lena-Alden looks like the best border right now, according to that first map you drew.
I do hope you do think about the fur trade since it was a really huge part of Europe's economy, and I think Japan would tap into it.
I agree. Japan would deffo be interested in the fur trade and they are exceptionally well positioned to exploit it
 
Yeah but nobody went to Australia cause they thought it was useful originally remember? It started out as a penal colony.
Yeah. Which is why I think British Australia makes sense.
Possibly yeah but I think there’s no way the USA as we know it exists ITTL personally.
Considering how it's already 1600s the first few colonies should be there already, and I think it'd make sense for the US to come about if nothing changes. If anything a french Canada + great lakes would be interesting. Or maybe the south stays loyal to the Brits.

And my thoughts on why I think Japanese Cali would work is that new Spain never really settled California because they we mostly exploiting Mexico and just converted the natives to Christianity and left it at that.
Yeah I agree. Lena-Alden looks like the best border right now, according to that first map you drew.
I think it's the most feasible one considering it would be the best border for Japanese interests and moving further inland would be hard for the Japanese.
I agree. Japan would deffo be interested in the fur trade and they are exceptionally well positioned to exploit it
Ye considering the Ainu and Dutch the Japanese would be making a killing, with beaver fur for Asia while sea otter fur would be world famous.

One of the things I'm thinking of is would the Japanese import Latin American crops like amaranth, quinoa, ulluco and oca be transported and be used in Japan (sweet potatoes got into Japan in the 1700s) while cherimoya and sweetsop be planted in drier areas of Kyushu and beiritou and the Highlands of the tropics. I could also see pacay be used in Japanese SEA if the Japanese could go and interact with Latin America through the fur trade routes that would stretch to California originally.

Ambassador huntsman when would the Japanese start exploring the Kurils?
 
Chapter 45: Habsburg European Offensives in 1632

Chapter 45: Habsburg European Offensives in 1632


While the Dutch, allied with the Japanese, went on the offensive in Asia, they were much more on the defensive on the home front in 1632, although the Prince of Orange Frederick Henry initially planned a full-scale offensive campaign. The prince’s plans would be disrupted by the renewed capacity of the Spanish Crown to invade the Netherlands thanks to expanded manpower resources under the Union of Arms. Leading the Army of Flanders, Spain’s premier standing army in the Spanish Road, was the king’s younger brother, Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand. Initially it took some time for reinforcements to arrive at Ferdinand, as part of the Spanish Road was either partially occupied or constantly strained by Swedish-Protestant forces fighting the Catholic League in the Holy Roman Empire. On April 17th, 1632, however, the Duke of Feria Gomez Suarez de Figueroa, the Governor of the Duchy of Milan, liberated Rheinfelden from Swedish forces and opened the corridor between Spanish Lombardy and the Spanish Low Countries for Portuguese, Aragonese, and Valencian soldiers, numbering 15,000 in total, to join Ferdinand. The time it took for this to happen allowed Frederick Henry to capture the forts of Venlo and Roermond and begin a siege on Maastricht in June. Approaching the prince’s position was Ferdinand, now leading an army of 33,000.​

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The Capture of Rheinfelden, painted by Vincenzo Carducci​

On July 16th, the Cardinal-Infante arrived in the vicinity of Maastricht, which was defended by a Spanish garrison of just 3,000 against the Dutch army of 21,000. Ferdinand devised a two-pronged attack upon Frederick Henry’s forces, with Don Gonzalo de Cordoba taking charge of the secondary force that attacked one side with the Cardinal-Infante assaulting the other. Although they outnumbered the Dutch, the Spanish failed to break their enemy’s morale or their contravallations during this assault and were forced to withdraw. They would take another crack at Frederick Henry and his army, however, when German marshal Gottfried Graf zu Pappenheim arrived with an additional 16,000 men in early August. This time, the coalesced Catholic forces broke through the contravallations and despite a spirited defense, the Prince of Orange was forced to end his siege and retreat northwards. Taking advantage of this victory, the combined army quickly retook Venlo and Roermond by the end of September, completely reversing Dutch gains from the spring. From there, the army of 49,000 proceeded to march on the city of Arnhem, the capital of the province of Gelderland, with the Cardinal-Infante intending to effectively split the Netherlands in two and conquer the divided halves of the United Provinces separately. In response, Frederick Henry, knowing he couldn’t win a pitched battle against the Catholic army, reorganized his forces into smaller divisions that would engage in a war of attrition. These smaller divisions harassed the enemy’s supply lines and baggage trains, employed scorched earth tactics in the countryside to deprive the Cardinal-Infante of needed provisions, and initiated hit-and-run attack after attack. Although Arnhem still fell to the Spanish on November 22nd, Ferdinand and zu Pappenheim’s forces had been depleted and lacked the necessary supplies to stay in one piece in the region. A garrison of 5,000 would be left, with the bulk of the rest of the army settling down in the Meise valley for the winter. Despite the Spanish near-pyrrhic victory though, Dutch fortunes on the home front were at its lowest in more than 40 years, not helped by political disunity in the States’ General between pro-peace and pro-war parties.​

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Portrait of Frederick Henry, the Prince of Orange, by Michiel Janszoon van Mierevel​

Spain also assisted its Austrian kin militarily, with a Spanish army of 10,000 led by the Marquess of Leganes Diego Felipez de Guzman converging with Albrecht von Wallenstein’s Catholic League army of 43,500 at the Battle of the Alte Veste against King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, the standard bearer of the Protestant cause in central Europe. This engagement ended in a Catholic victory, with Swedish cavalry commander Johan Baner killed during the battle and fellow artillery commander Lennart Torstenson captured in the aftermath. Afterwards, the combined army marched north towards Saxony in order to knock prince-elector John George I out of the war, Gustavus Adolphus unable to pursue due to being outnumbered and still reeling from losses at Alte Veste [1] .

The fall of 1632 proved to be relatively successful months for Habsburg forces across Europe, and it seemed like Protestants would be defeated for good in the near future against seemingly unbreakable Catholic momentum. However, these same successes would convince a new player to join the conflict. Alarmed by the resurgence of his old Habsburg rivals, King Louis XIII of France and his chief minister Cardinal Richelieu decided on direct intervention, signing an alliance with the Dutch and a mutual defense pact with Sweden that also renewed ongoing military subsidies to Gustavus Adolphus. In March 1633, an army of 27,000 led by Urbain de Maille-Breze would depart Paris towards the Spanish Netherlands, where he marched relatively unopposed through towns and cities lacking sufficient garrisons due to men drawn away for the Spanish offensive northwards the previous year. At the end of the month, Maille-Breze reached Leuven, a small town that controlled the critical River Dyle, and began to besiege it. By now, news of the French intervention had reached the Cardinal-Infante, who began to march south leading an army of 20,000 and left de Cordoba as the commander of Spanish forces alongside zu Pappenheim’s imperial contingent to continue the reconquest of Gelderland from the Dutch. He also recalled the Marquess of Leganes from Leipzig, which had been captured by Catholic forces on November 1632 from Saxony, and began to gather troops from nearby areas in the Spanish Netherlands and Alsace to reinforce both him and de Cordoba in their respective positions.​

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Campaigns in the Low Countries 1632-1633 (Dutch=black, Spanish=yellow, zu Pappenheim=purple, French=blue)​

By forcing Ferdinand’s attention to be distracted from the Netherlands, France gave Protestant forces across Europe a lifeline and proved that the wars in Europe were far from settled.

[1]: Spanish troops with von Wallenstein discourage Gustavus Adolphus from marching north and engaging the Catholic League at Lutzen.
 
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Considering Gustavus Adolphus is still alive I'd like to see him continue to be an important factor of the war and maybe give Sweden more land than otl like all of Pomerania?

This may also make the war last less long than otl if Gustavus Adolphus could win a few engagements earlier than otl, and as I'd think Wallenstein would become less and less popular he may be offed as per otl which would make the Catholics be less able to win the war.

Ittl I think France will try to take the Spanish Netherlands for themselves as per otl and fight the Spanish on other fronts which will piss the Dutch off. Having all of the Spanish Netherlands be french would be interesting.
 
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Considering Gustavus Adolphus is still alive I'd like to see him continue to be an important factor of the war and maybe give Sweden more land than otl like all of Pomerania?

This may also make the war last less long than otl if Gustavus Adolphus could win a few engagements earlier than otl, and as I'd think Wallenstein would become less and less popular he may be offed as per otl which would make the Catholics be less able to win the war.

Ittl I think France will try to take the Spanish Netherlands for themselves as per otl and fight the Spanish on other fronts which will piss the Dutch off. Having all of the Spanish Netherlands be french would be interesting.
Honestly would be interesting seeing a french controlled Spanish Netherlands, firstly because it removes a piece of the anti French block and weakens the already declining position of the Habsburgs.

Although it's also a bad position for the Dutch as they are essentially open for French assault in most of their territory and are essentially in their sphere of influence, not to mention that unlike Spain who was far away from it's territory, France will have it connected by land theirs.

They traded a old master for a new one
 
Honestly would be interesting seeing a french controlled Spanish Netherlands, firstly because it removes a piece of the anti French block and weakens the already declining position of the Habsburgs.

Although it's also a bad position for the Dutch as they are essentially open for French assault in most of their territory and are essentially in their sphere of influence, not to mention that unlike Spain who was far away from it's territory, France will have it connected by land theirs.

They traded a old master for a new one
Tbf screwing the Dutch over a little would be interesting, especially if it causes them to lose their dominance over the seas earlier. The Brits getting South Africa earlier and settling it themselves would be fun for example, but I don't see them losing Batavia until later.

On the other hand the Spanish Netherlands being lost would be detrimental to Britain too, so I'd think the Brits would want domination over the seas while wanting Dutch expansion into the Spanish Netherlands (or the former Spanish Netherlands if the french take it).

This would force the Netherlands to focus in SEA as their power in the Caribbean decreases which would be interesting.

Speaking of which are there any differences in America ittl?
 
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