Map Thread XXI

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Is the forum full of soy and cotton farm owners? Idk why anyone would feel offended by saying brazilians are depleting their soil and water reserves, honestly.
I have no right to say yes or no to that question, but if you just look back a little, you can see that CalBear kicked Bob Hope for posting a map in the map thread. Anyway, if you wish to speak to me more about this, please bring it to a PM, as I do not want to fill up the map thread with pointless nonsense regarding what one should be careful of.
 
I have no right to say yes or no to that question, but if you just look back a little, you can see that CalBear kicked Bob Hope for posting a map in the map thread. Anyway, if you wish to speak to me more about this, please bring it to a PM, as I do not want to fill up the map thread with pointless nonsense regarding what one should be careful of.
You don't need to walk on perpetual eggshells, the mods adhere to the forum rules. CalBear acknowledged he made a mistake and reversed the kick. It is okay to acknowledge the very observable fact that depletion of the Amazon and unsustainable farming/ranching practices are going to cause problems for a good long while down the road
 
I was going too look at pre-columbian cultures along the pacific coast but that seems to have been covered elsewhere in a number of different formats.

Anyone got an ideas where to go next?
Awareness of Cahokia and the surrounding Mississippi culture is pretty common but I haven't seen many deep dives on the Pre-Columbian civilizational structures in that region despite being in the well-populated Mississippi basin

The Mesa Verde cultural complex is also super neat and in perpetual need of some love
 
Starting a new thread;
A Thread for POD ideas for anyone to use.
Anyone can contribute, all ideas are free to use.
Must be submitted using the following format or a detailed, thought out precis;

  1. People/State;
  2. Location & place;
  3. POD or Premise;
  4. Questions;
Any ideas put them in this thread;
 
Awareness of Cahokia and the surrounding Mississippi culture is pretty common but I haven't seen many deep dives on the Pre-Columbian civilizational structures in that region despite being in the well-populated Mississippi basin

The Mesa Verde cultural complex is also super neat and in perpetual need of some love
The parts of the americas that don't fit the traditional definitions of ''civilisation'' were sadly set aside by scholarly sesearch until recently.
 
World in the Altrova-verse.png

1. Republic of Kyivia
2. Free National Union of Floria
3. Socialist Federal Republic of West Floria
4. Republic of Wallomia
5. Socialist Republic of Albara
6. State of Albaria
7. Kingdom of Albara
8. House of Valkei
9. House of Zaltei
10. Commune of Espana
11. Bretonian Serene Republic
12. Anarchist Commune of Novoaltrovya
13. State of Mianfei
14. Socialist Republic of Saelounjib
15: Empire of Furidamu
16: Kaiserstaat Heimatsland
 
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1. Republic of Kyivia
2. Free National Union of Floria
3. Socialist Federal Republic of West Floria
4. Republic of Wallomia
5. Socialist Republic of Albara
6. State of Albaria
7. Kingdom of Albara
8. House of Valkei
9. House of Zaltei
10. Commune of Espana
11. Bretonian Serene Republic
12. Anarchist Commune of Novoaltrovya
13. State of Mianfei
14. Socialist Republic of Saelounjib
15: Empire of Furidamu
16: Kaiserstaat Heimatsland

What is this?
 
Slavs migrate further West and this happens.

dfmzsws-4804795d-f63e-4abf-9af5-c81273fa9d6b.png
This really is a shame as the Basque have been wiped from the earth. St first I was happy and thought the Basque, Gascons, etc were blue, but it seems it is the Vandals. Do you have the Channel Islands Breton or Polish speaking here?
It's been a while (4 months!) since the previous incarnation of this project, but im glad to finally drop South Korea-Senegal! Enjoy!View attachment 803340
Nice with the flood walls in Japan. Don’t see those too often on maps. Far more realistic than countries that could afford it to allow most of their land to be flooded.
Worked up some Pre-Columbian contact maps. These are all based on current theories/myths/historical evidence;
Feel free to use the information however you want.
View attachment 803649View attachment 803650View attachment 803651View attachment 803652View attachment 803653
i adore them. Think you will ever do a map on private or failed colonies? Looking at these maps of South America just reminded me of the various tries private German individuals used to get some New Venice set up, and how Ford, Confederates, and the Japanese has unofficial colonies in Brazil. Though it is mostly immigration, I suppose.
I was going too look at pre-columbian cultures along the pacific coast but that seems to have been covered elsewhere in a number of different formats.

Anyone got an ideas where to go next?
Maybe a map about what colonial powers traded with each other? Though it might not be too legible, given how it would be borderlands or small islands.
 
Love this, the Amazonian terra preta cultures are so cool and there's so much we still don't know about them.
They were extant at the time of European contact - Spanish or Portuguese sailors going up the Amazon for the first time noted that the shores were occupied by buildings all the way, like one big village throughout the entire course of the river. However the next time they came, it was all abandoned and in ruins. Seems like they got diseases and died.
 
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Excerpt from "The World of the Bat and Ball"

".......There is absolutely no doubt that in all European countries that Football is King. Despite many hurdles in centuries of the sport's existence, Football was and has remained the most dominant sport on the European continent. But in 8 different European countries, another sport has always threatened Football's dominance with a solid and heavy fanbase of its own - Cricket. Britain, Ireland, France, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg all boast powerful football cultures, yet at the same time boast a powerful cricketing culture as well. The International Cricket Council (ICC) has continued its European direction as the World Cup moves from Britain & Ireland in 2019 to six continental European hosts for the 2023 Cricket World Cup. In a colossal undertaking, the six European countries of Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg are going to be co-hosts of the 2023 World Cup. Tensions are inflamed of course. England vs France is always a match to remember, and they're grouped in the same group. Of course, the sting of defeat in the 2022 FIFA Football Worldcup still remains in France, and most hope that France can make it up in Cricket. Italy's Test Team has remained unbeaten since 2020, and now they hope to convert that in ODIs. And then there is Germany, the champions of the 2020 European Cricket Cup, and clear favorites for many. The Dutch, Belgians and Luxembourgish don't boast a large talent pool like their European counterparts, but their teams are known to be explosive in T20Is and they can certainly punch far above their weight with the dutch remaining undefeated in ODI's at home since 2017. All hosts have their speculative eyes on the grandest prize the Cricketing world has to offer - The ODI World Cup......."

Basically from a timeline where cricket remains extremely popular in these countries. Thoughts?
 
They were extant at the time of European contact - Spanish or Portuguese sailors going up the Amazon for the first time noted that the shores were occupied by buildings all the way, like one big village throughout the entire course of the river. However the next time they came, it was all abandoned and in ruins. Seems like they got diseases and died.
Which is why it's crazy we know so little, there are accounts of their presence, farming tools, and pottery. Disease definitely, possibly battles with Spanish or Portuguese ships that didn't bother to record the incidents, and who knows what else.

Recently it seems that scholarship has been moving away from the idea of the Amazon basin as a region populated primarily by hunter-gatherers and little else though, which has been really encouraging to see.
 
MOTF Xpost: My attempt at a 'schoolbook style'. Inspired by this map, which I've had in my 'to cover' folder forever, and by @King of the Uzbeks' recent infobox, seemingly inspired by the same map, which made me realize I should go and actually do a map on it. I wanted to note here that this is a period and place in history which I am not as well informed as I would like to be, and I am making a controversial historical 'protagonist' out of someone about whom very little information exists in English. For any implausibilities and mistakes I apologize in advance.



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In November 1861, in the throes of the political chaos resulting from the Second Opium War and the sudden death of the Xianfeng Emperor, two of the Emperor's former consorts seized power in a palace coup, executing the eight regents who had held the reins of state in the months since the Emperor's passing. The state they had claimed was already decrepit, undermined by local clientelism and the creeping influence of the foreign powers through the ports and waterways opened by force by the recent wars; in addition, it was still in the midst of a brutal civil war with the millenarian Taiping rebels, who, it was suspected, were backed by the British and French despite their claims otherwise.

Despite these serious challenges of state, the new clique turned rapidly to infighting, with a divide emerging between Empress Cixi, mother of the five-year-old Tongzhi Emperor for whom the regency legally operated, and Empress Cian, who was the Xianfeng Emperor's primary wife and had the backing of Prince Gong, the former emperor's brother whose support had made their coup possible. In August 1864, with yet another defeat of the imperial army at the hands of the Taiping rebels outside of Nanjing, Cixi decided to make her move, issuing a decree in her son's name dismissing the Prince from his offices on grounds of incompetence and disrespect towards the Emperor.

Unwilling to accept Cixi's power grab, Gong and Cian quickly assembled their own counter-coup, which would attempt to seize the emperor and imprison Cixi. Despite having the loyalty of much of the ethnic Han army and personal connections with many ethnic Manchu officials, their rapidly-planned plot failed, with Cixi and Tongzhi escaping to the imperial resort town of Chengde. Returning with an army raised in the Manchu heartland in spring 1865, Cixi swept Gong and Cian out of the capital, forcing them to flee to the south, where the powerful private Xiang Army, assembled by local nobles to resist the Taiping invasion of Hunan after the failure of the imperial army, provided them refuge. The stage was set for another ten years of three-sided civil war. With the country thrown into chaos, local officials and landowners - particularly in the far south - began to make independent deals with the French and British, who were able to provide arms and a modicum of security in exchange for trade concessions and influence. Slowly but surely, de facto European rule began to creep up the Pearl and Yangtze along with the gunboats.

In 1874, having finally crushed Gong & Cian's armies in Hunan and the last gasp of Taiping resistance in Guangdong, Cixi had finally consolidated her authority in the country and was ready to begin her intended program of military reform and weeding out foreign influence. But in a great irony of history, the very next year, the Tongzhi emperor - still only 14 - died of smallpox. The division of the imperial family in the civil war had left no traditionally legal heirs. Cixi's solution was to force through a reform of the traditional inheritance laws, allowing Princess Rong'an - the Xianfeng Emperor's only other surviving child - to be crowned as the Guangxu Empress, the first empress in her own right in 1200 years, only the second in the country's ancient history, and, as it turned out, the last monarch of China.

Local nobles furiously resented what they saw as a mockery of imperial law and tradition, and going forward, many reactionary writers would say they considered the Qing Dynasty to have ended in 1875. Fearful of plots, Cixi and her new puppet empress focused on internal palace security over all else - ironically opening the door for the true rot on their power in the form of further decentralization of power and informal deals between local power brokers and outside interests. Nevertheless, the dynasty as it was plodded along for another twenty four years before the facade of unity and stability shattered.

In the late 1890s, crisis came in the form of the rapid growth of secret societies, both anti-foreign and anti-Manchu, who began to carry out attacks on foreign merchants and missionaries as well as court officials across the country. In June 1900, an organized mass group of nationalist rebels - now known collectively as the 'Boxers' - seized control of Beijing, besieging the extensive foreign possessions as well as the imperial palace. They forced Cixi into hiding and the Guangxu empress to abdicate in favor of Prince Zaifeng, a distant relative of the Xianfeng emperor, who reluctantly took power as the Xuantong Emperor and declared war on the European powers.

Embarrassingly for the rebels, almost every provincial governor in the country - who they had assumed were secretly on their side - refused outright to implement the declaration of war and cut side deals with the alliance of imperial powers which was then assembling to relieve their besieged legations. They stormed Beijing and imposed on the country a draconian treaty which formally stripped it of most of its coastal territory, divided the remainder into spheres of influence, and reinstated the Guangxu Empress as a puppet - this time of a council of ambassadors who were to rule de facto at the threat of a new invasion. Cixi herself was placed under house arrest in Chengde, where she died in 1904.

Especially in these final years of the dynasty, the Guangxu Empress is often portrayed as a do-nothing who passively allowed Cixi and then the foreign powers to destroy the country. But in her defense, she has been raised from birth for passivity and kept her whole life from the information and connections she would need to exercise her power. To her credit, after Cixi's exile, she proved a quick study at power politics and made an honest attempt at administrative and education reform in the last years of her reign. But the damage was done. As soon as the paper was dry on the so-called Boxer Protocol, individual provincial governors stopped even pretending to take orders from Beijing, instead coming to arrangements with local nationalists or with the colonial powers, which the council of Ambassadors then forced the Imperial Court to ratify.

Nearly every year after 1901, new 'addenda' were imposed to China's arrangements with the great powers which stripped it of even more territory. In February 1911, Guangxu was forced to hand over practical administration of the vast bulk of the country outside Zhili province to foreign 'advisors,' and when in October she refused to give imperial consent to a series of brutal laws intended to crack down on nationalist activists, she was unceremoniously deposed and sent into exile in the United States.

Formally, China lost its independence for only eight years, when German North China was declared a republic under Japanese mandate after the First World War. But true independence had to wait until the 1940s, when the brutal Chinese front of the Second World War finally exhausted the resistance of the colonial powers to calls for freedom. Reunification remains a popular buzzword for politicians across the former empire, but has been stalled by continuous geopolitical rivalry between China-Beijing and China-Wuhan and by decades of 'nationalization' programs in Sichuan and the south Chinese republics.

Cixi and Guangxu both are complex figures in Chinese historiography, and different portrayals of the period of the loss of Chinese independence have substantial political undertones which color histories written across the region. One area, however, where Guangxu is remembered fondly is in the Chinese community of California, where she lived her final years as a philanthropist and anti-colonial activist. One of San Francisco's major avenues is now named after her, and her great-granddaughter was elected as the city's first Asian-American mayor in 2011. The former Empress died in 1918, heartbroken by the destruction of her country as a major front in a European war. Her descendants claim the throne of China to this day, and a minor political party in China-Wuhan actively advocates for a restoration.
 
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MOTF Xpost: My attempt at a 'schoolbook style'. Inspired by this map, which I've had in my 'to cover' folder forever, and by @King of the Uzbeks' recent infobox, seemingly inspired by the same map, which made me realize I should go and actually do a map on it. I wanted to note here that this is a period and place in history which I am not as well informed as I would like to be, and I am making a controversial historical 'protagonist' out of someone about whom very little information exists in English. For any implausibilities and mistakes I apologize in advance.
Which of the Chinese states is best off? Also shouldn't most names be given in Wade-Giles
 
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Formally, China lost its independence for only eight years, when German North China was declared a republic under Japanese mandate after the First World War. But true independence had to wait until the 1940s, when the brutal Chinese front of the Second World War finally exhausted the resistance of the colonial powers to calls for freedom. Reunification remains a popular buzzword for politicians across the former empire, but has been stalled by continuous geopolitical rivalry between China-Beijing and China-Wuhan and by decades of 'nationalization' programs in Sichuan and the south Chinese republics.
So did the world wars follow more or less the same trajectory as in our world? How did Burma gain independence in 1905? Did the Russians/Soviets never reannex Turkestan, etc. after the alt-Revolution (or were they defeated in WW1?)
 
Which of the Chinese states is best off? Also shouldn't most names be given in Wade-Giles

Chaoshan by a lot, followed by Hokkiong, Nanyue, and Wuyue. The DRC, Sichuan, and Manchuria both suffered from extended periods of dictatorship which limited their development potential; the RoC and Dian are still in that category. Bouxcuengh is moderately democratic but very underdeveloped.

I did use Wade-Giles for the initial map but figured the new romanization would take hold and have post-colonial connotations.

So did the world wars follow more or less the same trajectory as in our world? How did Burma gain independence in 1905? Did the Russians/Soviets never reannex Turkestan, etc. after the alt-Revolution (or were they defeated in WW1?)
Ouch - there's always something in this! Thanks for that - that label is wrong, Burma is meant to be 1949. I've reuploaded a fixed version. The World Wars are roughly similar to OTL, though the war in the Pacific starts later and under different circumstances. The Bolsheviks lost the Russian Civil War and the White government was unable to reestablish control over Central Asia.
 
Noticed some Pre-Columbian cultures that I did not know about.
They had a way of increasing fertility to produce "Black Earth" which is a good indicator of inhabited areas.
View attachment 804004
I've seen some of these before, I did a project on pre-columbian agricultural practices in uni, though we ended up focusing on mayan practices.
I think I need to revisit my map of the pre-columbian Americas, I see that a lot of my placement of amazon cultures is pretty inaccurate. It's such a fascinating region though. There's a lot of value that can be derived from the agroforestry of the Amazonian native peoples, even in modern day with modern equipment.
They were extant at the time of European contact - Spanish or Portuguese sailors going up the Amazon for the first time noted that the shores were occupied by buildings all the way, like one big village throughout the entire course of the river. However the next time they came, it was all abandoned and in ruins. Seems like they got diseases and died.
I believe the only proper written account we have is Francisco de Orellana going from the recently-conquered Peru down the Amazon and out into the Atlantic. There's a long time between then and the next proper exploration, but a lot of evidence of Portugese raids and such in the interim.
 
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