Map Thread XVII

[FleetMac]

View attachment 353866

Crosspost from my very first MotF Entry!

The Best Tourist Destination in all Europe, ten years in a row! Come to Rome, one and all!

The map features a Byzantine Empire that conquered and consolidated southern Italy and Sicily (and even Rome!) early on and then managed to lose Anatolia to the Turks and the Balkans to a nationalist rebellion in the 1700's. The First Empire is OTL Rome, the Second Empire is the Eastern Roman Empire until the loss of Anatolia in 1632, when it is known as the Third Empire until its exile to Italy. It has been the Fourth Empire ever since, even though it's not much of an "empire" anymore. It also features an alternate development of the English language. It should still be readable, but let me know if you have any questions about the map! Their territory is, while still mostly considered ethnically "Italian," which covers a broad umbrella, mostly speaking TTL's alternate Byzantine Greek's descendant language. Also, their territory is mostly "Roman Rite Christian," what we would know as Orthodox Christianity.

Comments and questions more than welcome, as always!

"Standard Roman"? I'm guessing a form of Imperial Greek? Oughta be an interesting mix with Italian on the Peninsula. How powerful would the Emperor be relative the Senate, assuming it still exists?

Also, because it's there, any changes of note from OTL regarding Angland and their language?

 

[Alex Richards]

I note Winnipeg does not contain Winnipeg.

It does contain a lot of Lake Winnipeg however.

 

[Cheer]

"Standard Roman"? I'm guessing a form of Imperial Greek? Oughta be an interesting mix with Italian on the Peninsula. How powerful would the Emperor be relative the Senate, assuming it still exists?

Also, because it's there, any changes of note from OTL regarding Angland and their language?

Standard Roman is basically Imperial Greek with heavy Italian influences in structure and newer words. The government's official stance on it ever since about 1850 is that it's a totally different language, however, in order to facilitate the growing nationalism, and so it's known now as Standard Roman. The Senate rules the country now, with the Emperor being a mere figurehead, even though for most of this particular Empire's history, the emperor has held most of the power.

Angland was never invaded by a French-speaking people. But, around 1200 or so, they actually invaded France and conquered it in its entirety, and even managed to hold it for a bit more than 80 years. So, even though the language is more Germanic, it does still have some significant French influence. Angland in the modern day covers its home island and Iceland, as well as a few ports in Ireland*, Normandy*, and Aquitaine* and some Pacific/Caribbean islands.

Also, sidenote: The ethnic Jewish population is so high because the Empire was much more tolerant of Jews than other European nations in the Middle Ages. The religious statistics are based on official Roman census data, and as Judaism is now illegal after a recent Senate takeover by a fundamentalist party, most Jews simply said they are Canarii or Nostic Rite, with only a few still saying they follow the Jewish faith. (Though, of course, the banning has not caused many real converts at all.)

 

[Historyman 14]

New Map for y'all, it's another kaiserriech. Hope ya like it...
In this TL, Germany and the Central Powers win WWI by Germany not executing the Schlieffen plan and instead sending the majority of their troops to Russia. Along with this, Germany never uses unrestricted submarine warfare. Russia collapses into civil war by autumn 1916 and they sign an armistice. The war in the west ends in the summer of 1917 as the US doesn't enter the war because of the lack of unrestricted submarine warfare.

The treaties with the allies are harsh. The Russians are forced to give up Poland, the Baltics, Finland, Ukraine, and the Caucasus. In the Balkans, 2/3 of Serbia is annexed by Bulgaria with the rest being a puppet of Austria. France must give up most of it's colonial empire and a large swath of northeast France. Immediately after the war, The Bolsheviks still win as all the European powers are still war weary and can't fight a protracted war in Russia. In addition, uprisings in France occur as the government has crippling debt and is in financial ruin. As a result, communists take power in France (similar situations in Italy and Spain also lead to communist governments there too.) Tensions between the Arabs and Turks of the Ottoman Empire also continue to flare up. In 1924, The Arabs, Kurds, and Greeks rise up in full revolt. They are successful and by 1926, Egypt has gained independence with Sudan and Libya as puppets/vassals, The Arabs have their own pan-Arab state, the Shiite Muslims in modern Iraq and Saudi Arabia have gained independence, The Kurds have gained independence, and the Greeks and Bulgarians have taken the ethnically European parts of the empire. Meanwhile, chaos in China still erupts into civil war, but this time, the Soviets, emboldened by the revolution in France, fully support the Chinese communists. They win by the mid-1930s and a communist government is installed in China. The Great Depression also still happens and the global economy still tanks in 1929. Because of this, Austria-Hungary, already having a fragile government, would collapse in 1930 and new states like Austria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina being born (Serbia and Montenegro also regain full independence and Galicia is split between Poland and Ukraine.)

So that's it. What do ya think? pls leave feedback and suggestions.

I sent this to Joshua, and he said this.

I could see Mittelafrika including the Belgian Congo, parts of French Equatorial Africa (most likely French Ubangi-Shari / Central African Republic, French Congo, and French Gabon), and that's about it. They won't take a lot of British African colonies, or even any (Britain was in a strong position in the African theatre during WWI).

 

[EmperorKazooKid]

Done

 

[FleetMac]

Standard Roman is basically Imperial Greek with heavy Italian influences in structure and newer words. The government's official stance on it ever since about 1850 is that it's a totally different language, however, in order to facilitate the growing nationalism, and so it's known now as Standard Roman. The Senate rules the country now, with the Emperor being a mere figurehead, even though for most of this particular Empire's history, the emperor has held most of the power.

Angland was never invaded by a French-speaking people. But, around 1200 or so, they actually invaded France and conquered it in its entirety, and even managed to hold it for a bit more than 80 years. So, even though the language is more Germanic, it does still have some significant French influence. Angland in the modern day covers its home island and Iceland, as well as a few ports in Ireland*, Normandy*, and Aquitaine* and some Pacific/Caribbean islands.

Also, sidenote: The ethnic Jewish population is so high because the Empire was much more tolerant of Jews than other European nations in the Middle Ages. The religious statistics are based on official Roman census data, and as Judaism is now illegal after a recent Senate takeover by a fundamentalist party, most Jews simply said they are Canarii or Nostic Rite, with only a few still saying they follow the Jewish faith.

-Makes sense that it'd be seen as another language, politics dictating it and all. What's become of the Balkans and Greece? Ditto for Europe north of the Empire?

-That's neat, interesting how the language still infused French words (albeit under less obnoxious circumstances than OTL), and yet French didn't overtake English on the mainland. Still like the notion of a less-Latinate tongue overall

-That's good news for them, seems to match the notion of tolerance for good citizens that Romans usually espoused. Any other notes on religion different from OTL you'd be interested in expounding?

 

[Cheer]

-Makes sense that it'd be seen as another language, politics dictating it and all. What's become of the Balkans and Greece? Ditto for Europe north of the Empire?

-That's neat, interesting how the language still infused French words (albeit under less obnoxious circumstances than OTL), and yet French didn't overtake English on the mainland. Still like the notion of a less-Latinate tongue overall

-That's good news for them, seems to match the notion of tolerance for good citizens that Romans usually espoused. Any other notes on religion different from OTL you'd be interested in expounding?

The Balkans weren't taken over by Turks outside of Greece and Constantinople and the stretch connecting them. Bulgaria stretches from its OTL spot to southern Yugoslavia, Croatia owns most of northern Yugoslavia, Hungary stretches to the Black Sea (and owns Crimea), and Slovenia is a thing. Greece regain independence around 1800, and has embraced its classical roots even more than OTL. Overall the Balkans are quite stable, though Serbian nationalist terrorism affects almost every Balkan nation. The rest of Europe I haven't really thought out, though I think a weak France and strong Denmark would be in order.

The Canarii Rite is interesting enough to talk about. It's basically a mystical branch of Christianity considered borderline heretical and still persecuted in Hispania. It's derived from Tunisian Christian refugees to Rome, who were led by a particularly charismatic eunuch.

 

[Historyman 14]

Crosspost from my very first MotF Entry!

The Best Tourist Destination in all Europe, ten years in a row! Come to Rome, one and all!

The map features a Byzantine Empire that conquered and consolidated southern Italy and Sicily (and even Rome!) early on and then managed to lose Anatolia to the Turks and the Balkans to a nationalist rebellion in the 1700's. The First Empire is OTL Rome, the Second Empire is the Eastern Roman Empire until the loss of Anatolia in 1632, when it is known as the Third Empire until its exile to Italy. It has been the Fourth Empire ever since, even though it's not much of an "empire" anymore. It also features an alternate development of the English language. It should still be readable, but let me know if you have any questions about the map! Their territory is, while still mostly considered ethnically "Italian," which covers a broad umbrella, mostly speaking TTL's alternate Byzantine Greek's descendant language. Also, their territory is mostly "Roman Rite Christian," what we would know as Orthodox Christianity.

Comments and questions more than welcome, as always!

This is really good!

A few things....

Is there a central Church? (Like the Catholic Church/the Vatican) for Roman Rite Christian/Orthodox Christianity, or is it more loose?


Is there a Islam?

Is there a Germany, or any major of German States?

Anything for the New World?

ATL Ottoman Empire?

You said Greece is really into it Classical Roots. Just how so?

 

[DemanLeq]

Map of the Kalmyk Khanate in the Russian State by ResPublica

 

[Vladyslav]

Map of the Kalmyk Khanate in the Russian State

it's OTL?

 

[Cheer]

This is really good!

A few things....

Is there a central Church? (Like the Catholic Church/the Vatican) for Roman Rite Christian/Orthodox Christianity, or is it more loose?


Is there a Islam?

Is there a Germany, or any major of German States?

Anything for the New World?

ATL Ottoman Empire?

You said Greece is really into it Classical Roots. Just how so?

Always happy to answer questions!

- The Roman Rite is very strict about its religious orders. They are in Rome, under a Patriarch, and very conservative. The Latin Rite is the loose one; after losing Rome, they never found another city to really settle down in and make holy (Barcelona didn't work out.)

- Islam is labelled in the faith chart as the "saracen fithe." It's a lot more divided than OTL due to a much weaker central system for the religion leading to more fractures.

- Bavern and Borussia are the major German states, one controlling a lot of the north and one a lot of the south. But, there are a lot more small independent kingdoms and republics than OTL. It's almost as scary as the Indian princely states, with battling Bavern and Borussian influence, but not as bad as the HRE at its worst.

- The New World is free and republics, I guess. I didn't give it too much thought tbh.

- The Turks that conquered Constantinople did not expand outside of Turkey. Their conquering of Constantinople was too late, and they were too focused on that one prize. The Mid-East is actually united by Persia, outside of a chaotic Arabian peninsula. North Africa is European.

- Greece is trying extremely hard to distance itself from Rome, despite their very similar languages and cultures. They don't have an official state religion and never have, even at their independence, and they have such respect for Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle that a common twentieth century platitude was "Love art, love music, and love philosophy, but not as much as a Greek."

 

[Alexander North]

Oh my. Looks like Pennsylvania is just baaaarely not landlocked. Depends on how you count the Great Lakes. Very befitting for the Swiss. And though this is quite an intriguing idea, I feel that perhaps having some Native American group by the Romansh expy might have worked better. Or the Amish. I am fascinated thinking what might be the Lichtenstein expy. Delaware? The northern nub of West Virginia?

I intended that the Pennsylvanian German regions were either the Amish or some cultural hybrid involving them, but in hindsight I probably should've had something else in place of Chinese as a national language (as you said, some Native American group would have worked better.) Well, I haven't finished the world map yet, so there's still time.

You're correct, the northern nub of West Virginia replaces Liechtenstein.

 

[TheWhereWolf]

Wow! I've been off the site for a month due to several reasons, but I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who liked my original map (Shockingly including B_Munro, my biggest inspiration!) It really convinced me that maybe my work isn't half-bad, as one's own work always looks at first.

Now, I'm at a Crossroads on where to go from here. I can't decide which WIP I shouldmake a full map and scenario for first, so I thought I'd leave it up to you!

First:, a slightly modified version my original post:

Year 1974; POD 1743
The Under Vespurtian Confederations:

Second:

Year-1878; POD 1775
The North American members of the British Empire and neighboring states:

(Link to my inspiration for this one: https://latexiana.deviantart.com/art/Fredonian-Republics-REBOOT-iPad-Idea-12-437487221)

Third:

Year-1793; POD 1162
Map of Europe and Asia Minor at the Dawn of the Age of Progress:

(Bonus: a map of the Empire of Wolves):



Let me know which one I should pursue first, and question me on anything about these scenarios.

Cheers!

 

[Historyman 14]

Now, I'm at a Crossroads on where to go from here. I can't decide which WIP I shouldmake a full map and scenario for first, so I thought I'd leave it up to you!

Year 1974; POD 1743
The Under Vespurtian Confederations:
View attachment 354033

Second:

Year-1878; POD 1775
The North American members of the British Empire and neighboring states:
View attachment 354034
(Link to my inspiration for this one: https://latexiana.deviantart.com/art/Fredonian-Republics-REBOOT-iPad-Idea-12-437487221)

Third:

Year-1793; POD 1162
Map of Europe and Asia Minor at the Dawn of the Age of Progress:
View attachment 354038
(Bonus: a map of the Empire of Wolves):
View attachment 354043


Let me know which one I should pursue first, and question me on anything about these scenarios.

Cheers!

Hmm...

Talked to my pal, Joshua Ben Ari, and the second one would be interesting

 

[AmericanAdam]

Wow! I've been off the site for a month due to several reasons, but I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who liked my original map (Shockingly including B_Munro, my biggest inspiration!) It really convinced me that maybe my work isn't half-bad, as one's own work always looks at first.

Now, I'm at a Crossroads on where to go from here. I can't decide which WIP I shouldmake a full map and scenario for first, so I thought I'd leave it up to you!

First:, a slightly modified version my original post:

Year 1974; POD 1743
The Under Vespurtian Confederations:
View attachment 354033

Let me know which one I should pursue first, and question me on anything about these scenarios.

Cheers!

Oooh I like it

I'm kind of interested int he first one, what is the Vespurtian Confederation? Is it named after someone? What's it's government, etc.

Thanks in advance :3

 

[TheWhereWolf]

Oooh I like it

I'm kind of interested int he first one, what is the Vespurtian Confederation? Is it named after someone? What's it's government, etc.

Thanks in advance :3

Thanks!

The UVC is a Confederation sillimar in some ways to the OTL USA. However, the colonies reminded their ties to the Crown for longer, and still have strong ties to it today, similar to Canada’s relation to the home islands today.
It took its name after America Vespucci, though basterdised and anglisized.
It’s government is based on giving powers to each of the 15 confederations to decide things like policies on social welfare and civil laws, whereas a Federal government is elected on a population basis with a rotating capitol (each of the light blue dots represents a potential capital city), dealing wig foreign policies and criminal justice.

I’ll explain it further in the scenario itself. If you have any other questions though, feel free to ask

 

[Historyman 14]

Thanks!

I’ll explain it further in the scenario itself. If you have any other questions though, feel free to ask

On the second one....

What is up with Mexico, and New Orleans?

The area right in the middle, under ATL Canada and the rest of the West Coast?

How is the American Republic, and the British East Coast at this point?

 

[B_Munro]

It's a lot more divided than OTL due to a much weaker central system for the religion leading to more fractures.

Did Islam ever have much of a central system for establishing religious orthodoxy? Closest there ever was to an Islamic pope were the first few Caliphs, and the Caliphate didn't take long to start fracturing. Maybe the development and role of the ulama is rather different?

 

[B_Munro]

Year-1793; POD 1162
Map of Europe and Asia Minor at the Dawn of the Age of Progress:

What happened to England? Is that a Golden Horde-equivalent in the east, and a Big Bulgaria in the southern Balkans? Who's holding the straits? Is that a surviving Islamic Spain?

(I like scenarios with lots of notes, duh. )

 

[Cheer]

Did Islam ever have much of a central system for establishing religious orthodoxy? Closest there ever was to an Islamic pope were the first few Caliphs, and the Caliphate didn't take long to start fracturing. Maybe the development and role of the ulama is rather different?

Take that "not much of a central system" and change that to "no central system." More political fragmentation across the Muslim world kept any sort of central body at all from forming, and there are several regional centers of power. Basically, even more fragmented than IOTL, where the Ottomans served as a stabilizing force in the region.