List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

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CaptainShadow

CaptainShadow

Kellan Sullivan said:
Why Marguerite of France? Edward I's betrothal prior to Leonor was to Marie of Brabant (whose brother married Marguerite OTL) and several of Edward I's kids wed into the Low Countries (Brabant, Holland, a prospective match to Holland, to Flanders, Luxemburg and Burgundy). Not knocking it...simply curious about why French
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Didn't write this out, y'know.......

My (political) reasons:
It's France, one of the most powerful kingdoms in Europe, it's good to have her as an ally than an enemy, plus, Edward I's other kids are still marrying in the low countries. (not as much as OTL tho)
Henry III is running the show when Henry (IV) gets married, so his political considerations are taken into account as well.
My (actual) reasons:
A) They were of the same age.

B) Don't know much about this era.

C) Couldn't be bothered enough to look into where Edward's kids married, where he wanted to make alliances, etc.

D) Margaret is a prestigious bride herself, so I didn't really consider anyone else after I found out that they were born in the same year.......
 

Kellan Sullivan

Awkwardvulture said:
POD: Princess Marie Elisabeth of France(daughter of Charles IX) lives to adulthood and marries Henri IV of France, to solidify his hold on the crown after he divorces her aunt. Also, I'm no expert in this time period so feel free to let me know if something doesn't make sense

King Henri IV of France(b.1553, d.1610) m. Marie Elisabeth of France, Queen of France(b.1572, d.1636) had issue:
1)King Charles IX of France(b.1600, d.1651) m.Anne of Austria, Queen of France(b.1601, d.1666) had issue
2)Elisabeth of France, Holy Roman Empress(b.1601, d.1647) m. Matthias I, Holy Roman Emperor(b.1557, d.1619) had issue(1)
3)Jeanne-Catherine of France, Queen of Spain (b.1603, d.1670) m. King Phillip IV of Spain(b.1605, d.1665) had issue (2)
4)Prince Francois, Duke of Orleans(b.1605, d.1671) m. Marie de Bourbon, Duchess of Montpensier(b.1605, d.1627) had issue remarried to Marguertite of Lorraine, Duchess of Orleans(b.1615, d.1672) had issue (3)
5)Prince Louis, Duke of Anjou(b.1606, d.1606)
6)Prince Antoine, Duke of Anjou(b.1608, d.1668) m. Anne Geneviève de Bourbon, Duchess of Anjou(b.1619, d.1679)
7)Henrietta Maria of France, Queen of England(b.1609, d.1669)m. King Charles, I of England(b.1600, d.1649) had issue

(1) Here Matthias's wife, Anna of Austria-Tyrol dies in 1614, prompting him to marry Elisabeth in 1616, by whom he has two sons: Maximillian(b.1616) and Charles(b.1518), religious compromise in the HRE may go slightly better as Elisabeth will be a moderate Catholic, as opposed to Anna.
(2) Ironically named after Jeanne D'albert and Catherine de Medici
(3) Here a son of Henri IV is permitted to marry the sister of the Duke of Lorraine without as much drama, as Marie Elisabeth is a much more capable regent than her OTL counterpart Marie de Medici, and she holds sway over her son during his reign.
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Too many Habsburg matches. Henri IV was looking into a match between Louis XIII and Elizabeth Stuart (OTL queen of Bohemia) when he died. No Marie de Medici means that Henri II of Lorraine marries the Habsburg archduchess when Catherine of Navarre dies (like he was supposed to). Him marrying an archduchess means that he might have a son, which would make Marguerite de Lorraine a very bad match for TTL Gaston. Not to mention that a pairing between the duc d'Anjou marrying a Condé is almost just as bad of an idea (the branches weren't close).

And that's before we get into how removing Marie de Medici from the equation (she'd probably wind up as Matthias' first wife here, since her uncle was in negotiations with the Habsburg court for her to marry "an archduke" when Henri IV started casting around for a wife) will mean Henri dies of "natural causes" rather than is assassinated (it's suspected that Marie had a hand in the assassination, or at the very least, played an Alexander I type role in doing nothing to stop it). I suspect that Henri and Marie Élisabeth will be in 1590-1595 not 1599 (since by then the girl would be 27 already), and not hinge on his conversion. Why? Caterina de Medici was already planning to have Henri-Marguerite's match set aside and remarry Henri to her favourite granddaughter, Christine of Lorraine (OTL grand duchess of Tuscany), but then she died and Henri III had bigger fish to fry. Plus Marie Élisabeth's survival means Felipe II can't push Isabella Clara Eugenia as a claimant.
 

isabella

VVD0D95 said:
Interesting, so, Henry would need to die then for this marriage to go ahead
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Considering who Scotland (and matches with it) was among the things on which Henry VII and Henry VIII were on opposite position, I fear that the only way. Also once Charles V married Isabella, is likely who Catherine of Aragon will see who James V is the best match possible for keeping Mary’s crown
 

VVD0D95

Banned
isabella said:
Considering who Scotland (and matches with it) was among the things on which Henry VII and Henry VIII were on opposite position, I fear that the only way. Also once Charles V married Isabella, is likely who Catherine of Aragon will see who James V is the best match possible for keeping Mary’s crown
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Hmm interesting, so perhaps Henry dying just as he's about to start the whole negotiations to get his divorce from Catherine, Anne isn't pregnant yet, Mary is proclaimed Queen and marries James, and then we get the family tree outlined above? Unless, James and Mary having sons should be a thing?
 

isabella

VVD0D95 said:
Hmm interesting, so perhaps Henry dying just as he's about to start the whole negotiations to get his divorce from Catherine, Anne isn't pregnant yet, Mary is proclaimed Queen and marries James, and then we get the family tree outlined above? Unless, James and Mary having sons should be a thing?
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Can work, but would be better having Henry dying a little earlier so before we got too close to the end of the great matter
 
The_Most_Happy

The_Most_Happy

Let's say that Henry VIII stays married to Anne of Cleves due to a slightly better wedding night resulting in a Duke of York.

Let's also say that having a spare for the heir chills Henry out and he actually lets Mary and Elizabeth get married - who might they marry?

For Mary, I was thinking maybe Philip of Bavaria or Francis I of Lorraine? For Elizabeth, obviously not royalty, but maybe James Hamilton, 3rd Earl of Arran or a Grey cousin, or even one of Charles Brandon's sons?

(Might just be a post to burn off some muse, might be a whole TL, who knows)
 

BlueFlowwer

Richard wins Bosworth and Henry Tudor dies.

Richard III of England b 1452 d 1505 m Joanna of Portugal b 1452 d 1509
Issue:

-Richard IV of England b 1486 d 1530 m Catherine of Aragon b 1485 d 1535
-Anne, Queen of Scotland b 1487 d 1540 m James IV of Scotland b 1473 d 1520
-Edmund, Duke of York b 1490 d 1459 m *insert english heirress here*
 
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