l'Antarctique: A French Brazil TL

[Kurd Gossemer]

OTL Brazil already had some Jewish influence, specially in the Northeast under the Dutch, so i definitely can see them having a big community. Although, i imagine they would blend into the melting pot rather than being "isolated" like in the USA.

A Brazil that resembles Southern France is pretty cool, thanks for the insight on the cuisine. I can see something like Coffee cakes being popular in France as well.

Does not make much sense tbh, the Caribbean got really important after the Dutch stole the Northeast from the Portuguese and subsequently lost it, after that suger cane spread; if i remember my classes correctly originally the Portuguese were quite protective of their product.

Yeah this basically, France won't need the Caribbean like OTL because they already have an agricultural gold mine in Brazil, plus with the English and Swedish arriving in the place, they have less incentive to go there, especially because their colony will have a more diversified economy.

And Jews will have even more influence in Brazil TTL given they're not being discriminated against and will help in getting business off the ground in the colony, especially when it comes to slave importing alongside sugar, tobacco and sugar exporting, not to mention the fact many of them are of "gentle" professions like doctors, lawyers apothecaries and such will help a lot with the development of the colony not only in the people there but also into getting stuff like the judicial and medical systems in the colony be much more developed which will definitely help out the administration and make more people come given there will be a shift perception from "heathen hellhole" to "barely civilized outpost in the end of the world"

 

[holycookie]

The problem with England trying to pass a law like that is that France will demand some kind of compensation for Henry losing his rights to the throne of England and Ireland, which the English won't accept, we might see something like a civil war if the situation grows too out of control... Which I don't think it will but I'm still reflecting on it for a future update.

Well, a law like this is not uncommon, France has a law in this sense, if I'm not mistaken, preventing a monarch from another kingdom from being the king of France (only the opposite can happen). Regarding France demanding something, I find it difficult for England to accept something in that sense, so in theory it won't change much. I doubt that the English will rebel to put a French on the throne, Ireland will probably have more instability. But other than that there won't be anything strange, maybe a commercial or diplomatic agreement (like better treatment of Catholics in the English kingdom for example). More than that will be denied.

Yes Oda wasn't much for Christianity but with the Portuguese being less rabid with their dealings of religion(in Japan and China at least) thanks to "Jesuit thought", it will been seen as acceptable enough. Plus while japan will have it's minority of Christians they will be just that, a minority, even in Kyushu where they will be a very large minority but still be under Shinto overlords and neighbors.

The problem of Christianity in Japan is related to the breakdown that religion causes in the Japanese class system. In Christianity everyone has a soul, in Japan at that time some people had a soul. I find it difficult for Japan to tolerate a large number of Catholics in the long run, especially after unification. Which indicates persecution or a partial tolerance agreement (basically they can live in area x and nowhere else).

Not to mention that with a century or two of cultural differences, many Frenchmen writers and painters and such will be enamored with the (idealized and romanticized) version of the Brazilian culture so it will ironically make it loved by those in the metropole

basically a French tropicalismo (similar to Luso tropicalismo). Regarding the mix, it will be curious to see how the mix goes. In the otl mix people are the largest group followed by whites and then blacks. Due to the population of France being much larger, I think it is likely that the colony has a more European culture than Brazil. But at the same time, the creation of coffee and other products from an early age can demand more slaves than in OTL. So we have to wait and see.

Portuguese actually had a influence in the Japanese language(biggest example being the Japanese "Ne" coming from "Ne" and meaning the same thing really) so with them around for longer will mean there will be a bigger influence.

it also has an influence on the consumption of sweets, such as the fluffy cake japan being inspired by an iberian cake.

And yes Japan actually going into a international route thanks to Oda will make the country stronger, especially because they won't be dependent on the Portuguese and will be doing exploring of their own, especially out East....

the biggest problem for japan in this period is its more than mediocre navy. They had no naval culture or experience, with ships being primarily transport platforms which made it difficult for Japan to project force. In that period, what shone in Japan was the army (which was as modern as the European one).

Is France still interested in the Caribbean now that they have a bigger sugar colony?

I find it difficult to maybe have a small island to do raids, but other than that it is unlikely that they will invest in the Caribbean. Their colony produces everything the carribean produces (usually in greater quantity) and other things like cattle, gold etc.

OTL Brazil already had some Jewish influence, specially in the Northeast under the Dutch, so i definitely can see them having a big community. Although, i imagine they would blend into the melting pot rather than being "isolated" like in the USA.

yes, despite the fact that Jews have historically isolated themselves (or were isolated, both are correct depending on the situation). They will probably be mixed more than in the US, but they will probably not be fully absorbed.

I can see something like Coffee cakes being popular in France as well.

Things with banana and orange in addition to probably similar sweets similar to guava, cajuada, bananada, cocada but more French (probably more worked). In addition to things like candied fruit (which at OTL were extremely popular with the Dutch in Brazil. One author states that the Dutch colony in Brazil exported 109 kegs to Holland in 1631 and 1261 pounds in 1637 of candied fruit, listing other shipments up to the year 1647.)

Brigadeiro would be a hit

yes, but it will probably be a more well-crafted candy. With this abundance of sugar, France probably starts to develop sweets earlier TTL.

They might call it something like "Flemish bred" or even "Parisian bread"

OTl French bread is basically a baguette mine. It was made at the request of people who went to France and loved baguettes, but with no bread it lasted the return trip to brasil. Thus, the bakers only had the discretion of the producer and from that emerged the French bread.

Yeah this basically, France won't need the Caribbean like OTL

At most I see French corsairs having an island in the Caribbean to raid the opponents' colonies. Nothing more than that.

will help in getting business off the ground in the colony, especially when it comes to slave importing alongside sugar, tobacco and sugar exporting, not to mention the fact many of them are of "gentle" professions like doctors, lawyers apothecaries and such will help a lot with the development of the colony not only in the people there but also into getting stuff like the judicial and medical systems in the colony be much more developed which will definitely help out the administration and make more people come given there will be a shift perception from "heathen hellhole" to "barely civilized outpost in the end of the world"

Basically, the colony will have a very robust academic body (ridiculously robust if we compare it to OTL Brasil). In addition to doctors and universities, this will allow France to use the colony as a good base to exert influence on the African coast (and in the long term in Asia).

 

[Quinkana]

The problem of Christianity in Japan is related to the breakdown that religion causes in the Japanese class system. In Christianity everyone has a soul, in Japan at that time some people had a soul. I find it difficult for Japan to tolerate a large number of Catholics in the long run, especially after unification. Which indicates persecution or a partial tolerance agreement (basically they can live in area x and nowhere else).

tbf I think unless a bunch of peasants try to rebel against the ppl who're ruling them I think Christianity in Japan would be tolerated. I do think the cities would be more egalitarian and the class system would be much less persuasive though.

the biggest problem for japan in this period is its more than mediocre navy. They had no naval culture or experience, with ships being primarily transport platforms which made it difficult for Japan to project force. In that period, what shone in Japan was the army (which was as modern as the European one).

as the Japanese adopted more and more European stuff they also did adopt ship building technologies. The red seal ships were quite substantial in otl, and with a few heads of state continuing westernisation Japan's navy would be the strongest navy in asia.

Basically, the colony will have a very robust academic body (ridiculously robust if we compare it to OTL Brasil). In addition to doctors and universities, this will allow France to use the colony as a good base to exert influence on the African coast (and in the long term in Asia).

tbf I wonder would we have a much more powerful Brazil than otl, considering that they'd have a lot more universities and a lot more ppl who'd want to move inland a la appalachian trek. I could imagine argentina being quebec for canada for French Brazil.

 

[holycookie]

tbf I think unless a bunch of peasants try to rebel against the ppl who're ruling them I think Christianity in Japan would be tolerated. I do think the cities would be more egalitarian and the class system would be much less persuasive though.

The revolt began as a result of dissatisfaction with the heavy taxation and abuses of local officials on the Shimabara Peninsula and the Amakusa-rettō Islands. It did not initially have religious characteristics. Most of the peasants in the vicinity of Shimabara had been converted to Catholicism by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. In the long run the rebellion took on Christian overtones. The rebellion had support from large numbers of rōnin , the rebels fought so zealously that an army of 100,000 troops was unable to quell them, and the Japanese government had to call in a Dutch gunboat to blast the rebel stronghold . I find it difficult for the Portuguese to support the Japanese central government against a Catholic rebellion. As a whole everything that exists to occur this rebellion has ITTL. So I'm in doubt if Kyushu will remain part of Japan or will separate.

The red seal ships were quite substantial in otl, and with a few heads of state continuing westernisation Japan's navy would be the strongest navy in asia.

Well at otl Japan had about 350 Red seal ships from 1600 to 1635. As a whole the ship was a mix between European and Asian ships. Better than most Asian ships but inferior to a European ship. That's why I said that it will take time for Japan to have a navy equal to the Portuguese one, probably at the beginning of the 18th century or the end of the 17th century. But when they have the same capacity, it will be complicated for Japan's neighbors. Korea for example had the turtle ships that did wonders in the war against Japan.

tbf I wonder would we have a much more powerful Brazil than otl, considering that they'd have a lot more universities and a lot more ppl who'd want to move inland a la appalachian trek. I could imagine argentina being quebec for canada for French Brazil.

It would be less Quebec and more the most fertile region of Latin America. If they manage to control pampas as a whole this will be the most populous region in the country/colony in the long run. Good climate, great soil and the south of Brazil has coal. So the region of the map in my opinion would be one of the strongest and richest in the colony (if not the most).

Regarding coal (important for the future). All of Brazil's economically recoverable coal deposits are in the Rio Bonito Formation of the Paraná Basin, located in the southernmost region of Brazil (Machado, 1978; Weaver, 1993). It is comprised of the States of Paraná, Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul and has been known for its abundant and economically important coal beds since the beginning of the 20th century. There are eight large coal deposits associated with Permian sedimentary successions of the Paraná Basin. Seven of these deposits occur in the State of Rio Grande do Sul, and the remaining one in the State of Santa Catarina (fig.1). The majority of the total coal resources occur in Rio Grande do Sul (89 percent). Brazil has the second largest recoverable coal reserves in the Western Hemisphere, totaling 11.9 billion metric tons (Energy Information Agency, 2004). Source: https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2006/1241/Chapter 3-Brazil.pdf

The area that I think will be the industrial center of the colony/country in the future.

 

[Quinkana]

The revolt began as a result of dissatisfaction with the heavy taxation and abuses of local officials on the Shimabara Peninsula and the Amakusa-rettō Islands. It did not initially have religious characteristics. Most of the peasants in the vicinity of Shimabara had been converted to Catholicism by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. In the long run the rebellion took on Christian overtones. The rebellion had support from large numbers of rōnin , the rebels fought so zealously that an army of 100,000 troops was unable to quell them, and the Japanese government had to call in a Dutch gunboat to blast the rebel stronghold . I find it difficult for the Portuguese to support the Japanese central government against a Catholic rebellion. As a whole everything that exists to occur this rebellion has ITTL. So I'm in doubt if Kyushu will remain part of Japan or will separate.

tbf I said that because the nobles can blame christianity on creating the problems whether or not Christianity actually was the cause.

Well at otl Japan had about 350 Red seal ships from 1600 to 1635. As a whole the ship was a mix between European and Asian ships. Better than most Asian ships but inferior to a European ship. That's why I said that it will take time for Japan to have a navy equal to the Portuguese one, probably at the beginning of the 18th century or the end of the 17th century. But when they have the same capacity, it will be complicated for Japan's neighbors. Korea for example had the turtle ships that did wonders in the war against Japan.

tbf even with shitty ships considering the amount of ships the Japanese can bring to bear I can see them taking over Portugese ports in asia since the Japanese could get their ships to SEA a lot quicker than the Portugese especially if they have an ally like the dutch or the british. Hell, the Japanese most likely would be fighting the Spanish so the Portugese could be an ally.

It would be less Quebec and more the most fertile region of Latin America. If they manage to control pamaps as a whole this will be the most populous region in the country/colony in the long run. Good climate, great soil and the south of Brazil has coal. So the region of the map in my opinion would be one of the strongest and richest in the colony (if not the most).

yeah that's true, but do you see the Spanish speakers being pushed out/swamped by French settlers or something different would happen ittl?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

tbf I think unless a bunch of peasants try to rebel against the ppl who're ruling them I think Christianity in Japan would be tolerated. I do think the cities would be more egalitarian and the class system would be much less persuasive though.

as the Japanese adopted more and more European stuff they also did adopt ship building technologies. The red seal ships were quite substantial in otl, and with a few heads of state continuing westernisation Japan's navy would be the strongest navy in asia.

tbf I wonder would we have a much more powerful Brazil than otl, considering that they'd have a lot more universities and a lot more ppl who'd want to move inland a la appalachian trek. I could imagine argentina being quebec for canada for French Brazil.

Yeah this basically, Catholicism was really surpressed for a number of reasons like the Tokugawas wanting to close to close the country of foreign influences, the rabid behavior of the Iberians when it came to conversion not to mention the rebellion started by peasants. Here with a Japan that will be more international focused as well as the Portuguese being less forceful of wanting Catholicism (I'm East Asia at least), Oda Nobunaga won't be having much to crack down on it, especially because outside of Kyushu they won't have much numbers in order to be a powerful political block that could threaten his regime plus he knows playing nice about it will give him good standing with the foreigners that can supply him with weapons.

Yes, Japan won't close itself off like OTL and will definitely be very interested in seeing the innovations from out in the rest of the world and especially if they can be used to strengthen the realm.

Brazil will definitely become a situation where the colony becomes larger than the metropole in wealth due to it's sheer size of resources and population, this will come to a head in few centuries as both Frenchmen and Brazilian discuss what exactly means to be French and if how or why Brazil is bound to the homeland.

Argentina wasn't very populated at the time but that might change once Spain gets it's own bucket of cold water on the face like Portugal did...

 

[holycookie]

the nobles can blame christianity on creating the problems whether or not Christianity actually was the cause.

I don't see the nobility changing their minds on the culprit, perhaps adding Portugal as the master puppet of the rebellion.

tbf even with shitty ships considering the amount of ships the Japanese can bring to bear

The number of ships being greater does not mean that the Japanese will win (Portugal has demonstrated this several times in the Indian Sea, easily destroying a fleet 4 or 5 times the size of its fleet. In the most extreme cases, such as the battle of Diu, the enemies of portugal had 186 ships for every portugal ship, portugal won the battle)

I can see them taking over Portugese ports in asia since the Japanese could get their ships to SEA a lot quicker than the Portugese especially if they have an ally like the dutch or the british. Hell, the Japanese most likely would be fighting the Spanish so the Portugese could be an ally.

What Japan has to do this century (if it's smart) is learn as much as possible about ships from the Portuguese, maybe open a naval academy to prepare for the future. Japan has demonstrated the ability to modernize several times at OTL. They'll get this one too, they just need time.When prepared enough japan can begin to exercise its power (whether in the philippines, korea or another country/region).

yeah that's true, but do you see the Spanish speakers being pushed out/swamped by French settlers or something different would happen ittl?

This will depend on the population of the region what the amount will be if it is similar to otl I tend to find that they will be overrun by French colonists, with certain areas being a mix of the two.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

The revolt began as a result of dissatisfaction with the heavy taxation and abuses of local officials on the Shimabara Peninsula and the Amakusa-rettō Islands. It did not initially have religious characteristics. Most of the peasants in the vicinity of Shimabara had been converted to Catholicism by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. In the long run the rebellion took on Christian overtones. The rebellion had support from large numbers of rōnin , the rebels fought so zealously that an army of 100,000 troops was unable to quell them, and the Japanese government had to call in a Dutch gunboat to blast the rebel stronghold . I find it difficult for the Portuguese to support the Japanese central government against a Catholic rebellion. As a whole everything that exists to occur this rebellion has ITTL. So I'm in doubt if Kyushu will remain part of Japan or will separate.

Well at otl Japan had about 350 Red seal ships from 1600 to 1635. As a whole the ship was a mix between European and Asian ships. Better than most Asian ships but inferior to a European ship. That's why I said that it will take time for Japan to have a navy equal to the Portuguese one, probably at the beginning of the 18th century or the end of the 17th century. But when they have the same capacity, it will be complicated for Japan's neighbors. Korea for example had the turtle ships that did wonders in the war against Japan.

It would be less Quebec and more the most fertile region of Latin America. If they manage to control pampas as a whole this will be the most populous region in the country/colony in the long run. Good climate, great soil and the south of Brazil has coal. So the region of the map in my opinion would be one of the strongest and richest in the colony (if not the most).

Regarding coal (important for the future). All of Brazil's economically recoverable coal deposits are in the Rio Bonito Formation of the Paraná Basin, located in the southernmost region of Brazil (Machado, 1978; Weaver, 1993). It is comprised of the States of Paraná, Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul and has been known for its abundant and economically important coal beds since the beginning of the 20th century. There are eight large coal deposits associated with Permian sedimentary successions of the Paraná Basin. Seven of these deposits occur in the State of Rio Grande do Sul, and the remaining one in the State of Santa Catarina (fig.1). The majority of the total coal resources occur in Rio Grande do Sul (89 percent). Brazil has the second largest recoverable coal reserves in the Western Hemisphere, totaling 11.9 billion metric tons (Energy Information Agency, 2004). Source: https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2006/1241/Chapter 3-Brazil.pdf
View attachment 832968

The area that I think will be the industrial center of the colony/country in the future.
View attachment 832969

Yes, once France realizes the potential of the Pampas in making cattle, they will aggressively push for it since the amount of meat being able to grow there would help a lot to both the colony as well as feeding other parts of the empire like the motherland itself.

 

[holycookie]

the rebellion started by peasants

what really killed it for good was the shimabara rebellion.

Kyushu they won't have much numbers in order to be a powerful political block that could threaten his regime plus he knows playing nice about it will give him good standing with the foreigners that can supply him with weapons.

This question in my opinion is going to be a ticking time bomb. I find it difficult for Catholicism to spread strongly outside of Kyushu. But if Catholicism gets big enough on the island it will make the Japanese government uncomfortable. While nobunaga will tolerate foreigners for his own benefit, whether the son or grandson will tolerate it is another matter (or whether the nobility will accept it in the long run)

Yes, once France realizes the potential of the Pampas in making cattle, they will aggressively push for it since the amount of meat being able to grow there would help a lot to both the colony as well as feeding other parts of the empire like the motherland itself.

Yes with the Spanish colonists fighting the French to the north and the Indians to the south. This region is going to be an endless mess until someone wins (which could take a while). It will probably be the most volatile area in America (at least in terms of disputes on land with the Caribbean winning on the issue of wars at sea).

 

[Quinkana]

The number of ships being greater does not mean that the Japanese will win (Portugal has demonstrated this several times in the Indian Sea, easily destroying a fleet 4 or 5 times the size of its fleet. In the most extreme cases, such as the battle of Diu, the enemies of portugal had 186 ships for every portugal ship, portugal won the battle)

I meant it as the Japanese not needing top of the line ships and they'd still punch well above their weight, especially if they have similar amounts of western ships and a lot of other fusion ships.

Yes, once France realizes the potential of the Pampas in making cattle, they will aggressively push for it since the amount of meat being able to grow there would help a lot to both the colony as well as feeding other parts of the empire like the motherland itself.

hmm would the pampas region be good for rice cultivation and the cultivation of other crops too? tbf would we see highland rice agriculture like in SEA?

 

[holycookie]

I meant it as the Japanese not needing top of the line ships and they'd still punch well above their weight, especially if they have similar amounts of western ships and a lot of other fusion ships.

Perhaps, the war on the korea showed that Japan did not have a good naval culture in the period. What allowed them to have naval dominance for a while in war was the imcompetence of the Korean bureaucracy. They dominated on land, but at sea they suck hard. Which makes sense considering that they were in civil war for a long time. So I find it difficult to see the Japanese Punch Well Above Their Weight in this subject until they develop this naval culture (which takes some generations to occur).

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I meant it as the Japanese not needing top of the line ships and they'd still punch well above their weight, especially if they have similar amounts of western ships and a lot of other fusion ships.

hmm would the pampas region be good for rice cultivation and the cultivation of other crops too? tbf would we see highland rice agriculture like in SEA?

Maybe, in general stuff like soy, grapes, corn, wheat and indeed rice are grown there in the region in modern day Rio grande do Sul for example, so outside cattle we'll truly see an expansion of food being introduced there that will be a great breadbasket.

 

[BigStick.]

Things with banana and orange in addition to probably similar sweets similar to guava, cajuada, bananada, cocada but more French (probably more worked). In addition to things like candied fruit (which at OTL were extremely popular with the Dutch in Brazil. One author states that the Dutch colony in Brazil exported 109 kegs to Holland in 1631 and 1261 pounds in 1637 of candied fruit, listing other shipments up to the year 1647.)

yes, but it will probably be a more well-crafted candy. With this abundance of sugar, France probably starts to develop sweets earlier TTL.

I imagine sweets could use a lot of coconut, it really is quite versatile, for example Prestígio could be transformed in a totally different version of a mille-feuille or profiteroles. Maybe Brigadeiro would be consumed more like a Mousse?

OTl French bread is basically a baguette mine. It was made at the request of people who went to France and loved baguettes, but with no bread it lasted the return trip to brasil. Thus, the bakers only had the discretion of the producer and from that emerged the French bread.

Yes, that is why i think it's highly unlikely to even exist ITL, brazilians will just eat baguette instead.

 

[Aluma]

Yes, that is why i think it's highly unlikely to even exist ITL, brazilians will just eat baguette instead

I think while baguettes would be favoured over other types of bread(except maybe cheese bread and its variations) I do think french bread would exist as something for poor brazilians which might be turned into a symbol of lower class pride later like the OTL fried egg sandwich

 

[holycookie]

I imagine sweets could use a lot of coconut, it really is quite versatile, for example Prestígio could be transformed in a totally different version of a mille-feuille or profiteroles.

Prestige, or something similar is very likely to have. Coconut and chocolate is a great combination. Maybe it's similar to otl Macarons or maybe it's more like Opéra or even Madeleines-like in appearance (with the inside being coconut and the outside being chocolate).

Maybe Brigadeiro would be consumed more like a Mousse?

Perhaps, but France is not uncommon for sweets similar in appearance. Perhaps the difference occurs on the outside of the candy. With the brigadeiro being like in the otl but covered by a light layer of chocolate to reduce the dirt when consuming it.

Yes, that is why i think it's highly unlikely to even exist ITL, brazilians will just eat baguette instead.

Even if this type of bread does not occur, it is likely that other types will occur using local products, bread with cranberry for example. France is very fond of bread so something will come up.

13 Types of French Bread - 2024 - MasterClass

For the French, *le pain* is a national birthright and much more than a standalone ingredient. French bread is about expression and tradition, and the innumerable variations and styles each have a place in the choreography of everyday life.

www.masterclass.com

 

[holycookie]

I think while baguettes would be favoured over other types of bread(except maybe cheese bread and its variations) I do think french bread would exist as something for poor brazilians which might be turned into a symbol of lower class pride later like the OTL fried egg sandwich

A French breakfast is usually sweet. It is composed of slices of buttered bread and jam spread on it, sometimes croissants or other pastries and cereals. Usually, the drinks are coffee, orange juice or milk. So I don't think it's improbable that breakfast for the lower class is bread with butter and coffee.

 

[Quinkana]

Perhaps, the war on the korea showed that Japan did not have a good naval culture in the period. What allowed them to have naval dominance for a while in war was the imcompetence of the Korean bureaucracy. They dominated on land, but at sea they suck hard. Which makes sense considering that they were in civil war for a long time. So I find it difficult to see the Japanese Punch Well Above Their Weight in this subject until they develop this naval culture (which takes some generations to occur).

I think if we're having any naval war it'd be close to mid 17th century as part of the wars between the European powers.

Maybe, in general stuff like soy, grapes, corn, wheat and indeed rice are grown there in the region in modern day Rio grande do Sul for example, so outside cattle we'll truly see an expansion of food being introduced there that will be a great breadbasket.

Hmm considering they'd use soy would they eventually make soya milk when Japanese ppl get to the colony? It'd be an interesting twist to their food, and I think it makes sense considering what foods they have. Imagine the sweets they can make with soy milk instead of using it as a milk substitute (which I find absolutely stupid considering it's flavour profile). Soy pudding (doufufa) is one of my favourite desserts after all, and not mentioning it in a discussion about foods is criminal.

A croissant type thing made with cassava flour and with a near layer of sugar on top sounds fun, although croissants were invented in the 20th century so idk. Kipferl is a medieval bread tho so I could see them switching for the dough for otl croissants or just switch for casava, corn or even rice flour.

I'd really like to see what the antartiqois do with rice flour and casava flour in general. Another thing I'm wondering about is if the farmers would adopt quinoa. I think it'd make for a good secondary crop as the leaves are edible and the seeds are another source of food that the farmers can turn to when times are tough.

I really would like to see capybaras be semi domesticated too considering lent and the creation of cordoned off farmlands in the Amazon basin. Like I could see the farmers fencing in the rodents and we'd see capybaras that're used to graze areas that're left fallow alongside water buffalo.

PS what would the Jews bring to the table?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I think if we're having any naval war it'd be close to mid 17th century as part of the wars between the European powers.

Hmm considering they'd use soy would they eventually make soya milk when Japanese ppl get to the colony? It'd be an interesting twist to their food, and I think it makes sense considering what foods they have. Imagine the sweets they can make with soy milk instead of using it as a milk substitute (which I find absolutely stupid considering it's flavour profile). Soy pudding (doufufa) is one of my favourite desserts after all, and not mentioning it in a discussion about foods is criminal.

A croissant type thing made with cassava flour and with a near layer of sugar on top sounds fun, although croissants were invented in the 20th century so idk. Kipferl is a medieval bread tho so I could see them switching for the dough for otl croissants or just switch for casava, corn or even rice flour.

I'd really like to see what the antartiqois do with rice flour and casava flour in general. Another thing I'm wondering about is if the farmers would adopt quinoa. I think it'd make for a good secondary crop as the leaves are edible and the seeds are another source of food that the farmers can turn to when times are tough.

I really would like to see capybaras be semi domesticated too considering lent and the creation of cordoned off farmlands in the Amazon basin. Like I could see the farmers fencing in the rodents and we'd see capybaras that're used to graze areas that're left fallow alongside water buffalo.

PS what would the Jews bring to the table?

Well fish and chips was actually brought to England by Portuguese Jews invited by Cromwell, so foods that contain fish or any other meat that is Kosher would become popular, especially given how some of them are more readily easy to acquire, like fish or crabs that can be found in the ocean or near it.


Btw that's another thing too, the potato will be introduced at large not only in Brazil via smuggling with Spanish America but also in France where it will give the population a boom and especially help in the areas with bad soil/aren't very populated.

 

[Quinkana]

Well fish and chips was actually brought to England by Portuguese Jews invited by Cromwell, so foods that contain fish or any other meat that is Kosher would become popular, especially given how some of them are more readily easy to acquire, like fish or crabs that can be found in the ocean or near it.

Yeah that's true imagine pacu fish and chips. I can see fish stews being very popular too with less palatable fishes which need additional help taste wise.

Btw that's another thing too, the potato will be introduced at large not only in Brazil via smuggling with Spanish America but also in France where it will give the population a boom and especially help in the areas with bad soil/aren't very populated.

Oh yeah I can't believe I forgot about potato and sweet potato. Sweet potato defo would be a very useful crop too considering Brazil and I could see potato being more genetically diverse than European varieties because potatoes could spread right over the mountains. I wonder would oca and ulluco be secondary crops too?

 

[Avrorrange]

Well, a law like this is not uncommon, France has a law in this sense, if I'm not mistaken, preventing a monarch from another kingdom from being the king of France (only the opposite can happen). Regarding France demanding something, I find it difficult for England to accept something in that sense, so in theory it won't change much. I doubt that the English will rebel to put a French on the throne, Ireland will probably have more instability. But other than that there won't be anything strange, maybe a commercial or diplomatic agreement (like better treatment of Catholics in the English kingdom for example). More than that will be denied.

There was no such law. The King of Navarre became the King of France for example.

The problem of Christianity in Japan is related to the breakdown that religion causes in the Japanese class system. In Christianity everyone has a soul, in Japan at that time some people had a soul. I find it difficult for Japan to tolerate a large number of Catholics in the long run, especially after unification. Which indicates persecution or a partial tolerance agreement (basically they can live in area x and nowhere else).

basically a French tropicalismo (similar to Luso tropicalismo). Regarding the mix, it will be curious to see how the mix goes. In the otl mix people are the largest group followed by whites and then blacks. Due to the population of France being much larger, I think it is likely that the colony has a more European culture than Brazil. But at the same time, the creation of coffee and other products from an early age can demand more slaves than in OTL. So we have to wait and see.

it also has an influence on the consumption of sweets, such as the fluffy cake japan being inspired by an iberian cake.

the biggest problem for japan in this period is its more than mediocre navy. They had no naval culture or experience, with ships being primarily transport platforms which made it difficult for Japan to project force. In that period, what shone in Japan was the army (which was as modern as the European one).

I find it difficult to maybe have a small island to do raids, but other than that it is unlikely that they will invest in the Caribbean. Their colony produces everything the carribean produces (usually in greater quantity) and other things like cattle, gold etc.

yes, despite the fact that Jews have historically isolated themselves (or were isolated, both are correct depending on the situation). They will probably be mixed more than in the US, but they will probably not be fully absorbed.

Things with banana and orange in addition to probably similar sweets similar to guava, cajuada, bananada, cocada but more French (probably more worked). In addition to things like candied fruit (which at OTL were extremely popular with the Dutch in Brazil. One author states that the Dutch colony in Brazil exported 109 kegs to Holland in 1631 and 1261 pounds in 1637 of candied fruit, listing other shipments up to the year 1647.)

yes, but it will probably be a more well-crafted candy. With this abundance of sugar, France probably starts to develop sweets earlier TTL.

OTl French bread is basically a baguette mine. It was made at the request of people who went to France and loved baguettes, but with no bread it lasted the return trip to brasil. Thus, the bakers only had the discretion of the producer and from that emerged the French bread.

At most I see French corsairs having an island in the Caribbean to raid the opponents' colonies. Nothing more than that.

Basically, the colony will have a very robust academic body (ridiculously robust if we compare it to OTL Brasil). In addition to doctors and universities, this will allow France to use the colony as a good base to exert influence on the African coast (and in the long term in Asia).

I do wonder if having a large academic body means Révolution in Brazil, possibly earlier than Murica.Strongly doubt the Huguenot exiles would be content in Brazil and a Louis XIV kind of dumbfuck could revoke whatever rights they have there.