Would like to see what Muhammad Ali will do with so many powers gunning it for the Balkans.
L’Aigle Triomphant: A Napoleonic Victory TL
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
Play the Great Powers against each other to get his share of the pie
Probably independence of Egypt (France and Britain both won't want the other to have Egypt in their sphere), possibly Palestine / Jordan, Hejaz and Cyrenaica as a bonus.
If he's really lucky, Syria and Lebanon too (doubtful as France may want them, in exchange for allowing the carving of Ottoman Balkans).
Then, if Ali wants further expansion, there's always Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia
Probably independence of Egypt (France and Britain both won't want the other to have Egypt in their sphere), possibly Palestine / Jordan, Hejaz and Cyrenaica as a bonus.
If he's really lucky, Syria and Lebanon too (doubtful as France may want them, in exchange for allowing the carving of Ottoman Balkans).
Then, if Ali wants further expansion, there's always Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia
Indeed - zero European forces would tolerate a Greek republic
Indeed.
Considering conditions on the ground in 19th century Balkans, even a monarchist Greece would likely have a very decentralized real-world impact with localism hugely important.The Greek leaders IOTL had a powerful strain of democratic self-rule (which in effect many of them interpreted as the license to rule as they saw fit without having a Sultan interfering, but still...) but they were realistic enough to understand two things: a) in a monarchic Europe, a republic was not tenable because it would be seen as lacking legitimacy, and b) a native Greek as monarch would be bound to come from one faction and alienate the rest. A foreigner was a neutral figure. One acceptable to the Great Powers also brought legitimacy, under point a). Anything else was not important, except one point possibly: IOTL, the candidate would have to be acceptable to Britain as the main naval power in the Mediterranean. ITTL, that is likely the French.
IIRC no specifics have been mentioned about the fate of the Ionian Islands (apologies if I am wrong), but if there have been no post-Tilsit British operations there, there will be a lot of Greek revolutionaries who have served in the French army and have ties to the French, e.g. there could well be a certain chef de bataillon Colocotronis among the leaders of the Greek rebels.
And, yes, there's probably a huge Francophile element to TTL's Greek revolutionaries, even despite French Turcophilia being a very real thing.
France may want an Egypt in their sphere as their price of staying out of the Balkans (especially Napoleon viewing it as his one failed campaign, TTL). I could see an argument for a French Levant, but Napoleon being Napoleon likely trains French attention entirely on North Africa, with Muhammad Ali perhaps expected to be a French vassal (or, alternately, Muhammad Ali evacuates Egypt in return for a Levantine/Hijaz Kingdom of his own?)
Agreed on the reasons for the forgein claimant, the count of kommenos seems to have been just been raised as a idea for a French Hellenic client state.
And if France gets Egypt, then Egypt gets an earlier Suez canal, and France eventually liberates India!
Egypt would likely be to France what India is the UK in terms of being the imperial jewel
Would Napoleon establish a sister republic in Subcontinent?! If so, what would its name be?
Napoléon is more likely to reestablish a kingdom that pick up the legacy of à formerly conquered country. Certainly not a republic.
Portugal without colonies- might actually help them in development, because they will have to reform themselves...
Portugal, without colonies, instead concentrates its energy on the advancement of its port wines. This results in Portugal creating wines unequalled by any heretofore known to the world. The consequent demand for port and other Portugese wines become so great that Portuguese viniculture makes Portugal one of the richest nations in the world. "In vino lucrum' becomes Portugal's national motto and the grape press, cask, wine bottle, and cork screw become emblems on Portugal's coat of arms.
Across the globe Portugese wine becomes a symbol of earthly perfection, and it's associated with the greatest human joy imaginable. The victim in Poe's The Cask of Amontillado, Fortunato, is horrified not because he's being bricked in to a wall of a wine cellar, but because he was tricked into going to a wine cellar filled with Amontillado, a Spanish wine, rather that the vastly superior port wine the narrator had been promised him. Fortunato feels that his fate of dying surrounded by Spanish wine, rather than in the company of angelic Portugese wines, is a humiliating and degrading end to his--a fate he mourns as worse than if he'd been sent to the lowest circle of hell after having been promised a seat at the feat of the Saviour. He tries to console with the fact that he at least isn't surrounded by an Australian table wine, which he remarks would really opens up the sluices at both ends.
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Did someone just make me Queen of Portugal
I mean it isnt chocolate milk, but its so close!
"Good, we have lost our colonies. Nothing better could have happened to us, since that will force our capital-financial elites to invest money in our development" -said no one, ever
Seriously, contrary to what people who insist on projecting back the idea that the inhabitants of the past only cared about the economy and money want to think, losing colonies was considered a national tragedy.
Proof of your "inferiority" as a nation and the evil of your vile enemies. Something to feel wronged about and an unforgivable offense to avenge. Nothing to be celebrated.
Seriously, contrary to what people who insist on projecting back the idea that the inhabitants of the past only cared about the economy and money want to think, losing colonies was considered a national tragedy.
Proof of your "inferiority" as a nation and the evil of your vile enemies. Something to feel wronged about and an unforgivable offense to avenge. Nothing to be celebrated.
I mean, nothing to be celebrated for them, thats true
But for us?
Well my feet is cold and Im ready for some grave-dancing !
Well of course the people decolonized will celebrate this
but I'm thinking on how is stupid to believe someone (in the colonizer country) will see this as something good.I dont think they will, but it might improve their economical situation, which we both agree the portuguese wont give a fuck aboutWell of course the people decolonized will celebrate this
But hey pissing off Portugal (and getting better living conditions I guess) is always a win in my book
That will depend on the elites.
I remember I met a guy who claimed the same thing about the loss of Cuba and brayed about how very good that had been for Spain because it had forced the elites to repatriate capital.
The guy was mad when I pointed out that any hypothetical Cuban capital would have burned under the American bombs (so NOTHING could have been repatriated) and that "the elites" of the time preferred to invest their money in unprofitable goods such as the acquisition of latifunds, and the purchase of luxury goods.
That almost no one did that thing about "spending money to make money", and yes "spending money to pretend that you have more money".