L’Aigle Triomphant: A Napoleonic Victory TL
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
I don’t think we’re going to see a revived Byzantine Empire given that the Greek republicans are already here
Well, IRL they might be forced to accept it, as without European support the Ottomans will win.
Plus even if a Republican Greece arose, it would be hated by both Europe and Ottomans, wouldn't survive long. And the Greek Republicans know it, so many of them will prefer having a Greece at all (even if Monarchist) rather than nothing
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If it was updated last year and has not received a turtledove yet(it hasnt, but it came very close and lost to another TL of the same author, what a flex) you can nominate it
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
is there even some better claimant to the byzantine crown instead fo Otto as OTL?
i mean, someone related to the last Byzantine dynasties: Angeloi, Komnene, Lascaris, Palaiologos.
cause, the Rurikovich are dead. same for the trastamara.
ironically, if i'm not mistaken the royal insignia or something like that was sold to Castile just before the fall of Constantinople so technically a Spanish monarch can be placed as Basileious. the problem is that Spaniards are Catholics.
Lots of Paleologids still around, IIRC one of them was part of the French government in the early XXth century ?
Finding the legitimate one is a taller ask, though.
Theirs of course the semi notable count komenos of corsica who was recognized by the French goverment and was a friend with napoleon though of course his nobility much like the emperors own was disputed
Taller ask, more like impossible. All the confirmed direct male-line descendents of the Byzantine Emperors all died out by the early to mid-16th century (assuming you count the Palaliogian marques of Montferrat to still be in that line of succession, that line having died out in 1533) That said, there have been Empress regnants of the Byzantine Empire, which at least implies some form of cognatic descent if possible. But because any records from that era are not well kept, if any was kept on that subject in general, I think the closest descendent by blood to the Palaiologian Emperors would, ironically enough, be the current Austrian Emperor (descended from Androkinos II Palaiologos through the Montferrat line, which was inherited by the Gonzagas via marriage, and then passed into the House of Lorraine proper before becoming the Habsburg-Lorraines)
The Romanian Paleologids still bear the name, though.
(apparently they're where the French Paléologues come from)
Alternatively, there's still Phanariot Cantacuzenoi to pick from.
I mean that's a fair assessment. I do maintain that their claims to being descended from those Imperial families are stamped with big blue "X"s to call for doubt. But I'm also certain that those doubts probably was non-existential back in the day.
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
if i'm not mistaken the only male descendant of the greek Palaliogian was from costantine XI brother's Demetrios. a guy that died somewhere in the Caribbean?
this is the daughter if i'm not mistaken:
Godscall Paleologue - Wikipedia
I'll never quite understand the fixation this website has on resurrecting royal families that have been dead for centuries. Otto was not made King of Greece because he had the best claim to be the descendant of a barely remembered ruling dynasty, he got it because he was somebody all the great powers could accept. Most likely the same logic will prevail here. If it doesn't, and there's some sort of great power conflict over Greece, the end result will still not be determined by the candidates' level of connection to the country's medieval past.
Remember, the name New Byzantine Empire is mostly just LARPing anyway. There's nothing wrong with pretending to be the successor of a glorious past, but the resulting state probably wouldn't look all that different from OTL 1800s Greece.
Remember, the name New Byzantine Empire is mostly just LARPing anyway. There's nothing wrong with pretending to be the successor of a glorious past, but the resulting state probably wouldn't look all that different from OTL 1800s Greece.
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
it's because the greek themselves wanted to restart from where they left.
when greece was libertaed the provisional government before going to otto searched for a Palaiologos. they went in cornwall ( where the last one Godscall ) was born but did not find anything.
now. HYPOTHETICALLY let's says that they stumble on a man who is baptized in some 100 souls village as... i don't know... "John Paleologus" for example. they would surely bring him back as future king.
OR more precisely, make him marry some rich lady and then tutor his son as actual king.
Greeks really believed in the tale of the mountain king.
before you say " he isn't nobility". Karadorde is Serbia also was a villager/general so...
True
It was planned to include Bulgaria and Constantinople - and Bulgarians outnumbering Greece in OTL 1900
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Even if we accept at face value that the Greek public is deeply dedicated to a direct restoration of the Palaiologos dynasty (I'm skeptical), they were not the primary decisionmakers. Any Greek state, no matter how it styles itself, will exist thanks to the intervention of the great powers. There was no great public clamoring for Otto before he was selected, and despite that he was initially welcomed with enthusiasm. That tells me two things: that the great powers don't really care who the Greeks want and that the Greeks themselves were willing to accept whatever monarch they were given.
The appeal that memories of the Eastern Roman Empire have in post-independence Greece is a lot like modern nostalgia for the Soviet Union. It's usually more about missing when your country was powerful and taken seriously, and less about any actual affinity for the traditions, ideologies, and power strctures of that state.
The Greek leaders IOTL had a powerful strain of democratic self-rule (which in effect many of them interpreted as the license to rule as they saw fit without having a Sultan interfering, but still...) but they were realistic enough to understand two things: a) in a monarchic Europe, a republic was not tenable because it would be seen as lacking legitimacy, and b) a native Greek as monarch would be bound to come from one faction and alienate the rest. A foreigner was a neutral figure. One acceptable to the Great Powers also brought legitimacy, under point a). Anything else was not important, except one point possibly: IOTL, the candidate would have to be acceptable to Britain as the main naval power in the Mediterranean. ITTL, that is likely the French.
IIRC no specifics have been mentioned about the fate of the Ionian Islands (apologies if I am wrong), but if there have been no post-Tilsit British operations there, there will be a lot of Greek revolutionaries who have served in the French army and have ties to the French, e.g. there could well be a certain chef de bataillon Colocotronis among the leaders of the Greek rebels
.
IIRC no specifics have been mentioned about the fate of the Ionian Islands (apologies if I am wrong), but if there have been no post-Tilsit British operations there, there will be a lot of Greek revolutionaries who have served in the French army and have ties to the French, e.g. there could well be a certain chef de bataillon Colocotronis among the leaders of the Greek rebels
.