Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2

[fester]

Wait I thought the Germans never reached Stalingrad?

They never entered the city proper. They were laying siege and had actually managed to isolate most of the city before having to withdraw during Operation Uranus.

Army Group South is significantly stronger at this point in time because it did not lose the 6th Army nor did it see the minor-allied armies destroyed in the Operation Uranus or Saturn to the same extent OTL compared to TTL. The German infantry divisions are still under-strength and logistics are a cast iron SOB but the rifle strength is still functional instead of threadbare.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

...logistics are a cast iron SOB...

If I ever write a book that's gonna be the title.

 

[Butchpfd]

If I ever write a book that's gonna be the title.

Already has been written..https://www.history.navy.mil/resear...alphabetically/b/beans-bullets-black-oil.html

 

[docfl]

Shorter video

 

[fester]

South Bank of the Phum Duang River, Thailand 0000 January 10, 1943

III Indian Corps stopped. Patrols were still out. Sergeants and colonels got jittery when there were no patrols to either keep men in line or find the enemy. But the four divisions that had bulled through the Japanese defenses and then linked up with the Mechanized Corps had stopped. 30,000 Japanese soldiers were trapped in a set of pockets behind the front line. They were no longer dangerous on a strategic level although strategically pointless deaths were just as dead as strategically vital deaths.


Fifteen miles away, XXVII Corps had also stopped. Army Group ARtillery with 9.2 inch guns were still firing away. A battered Japanese regiment was dug in around a small port that the engineers and quartermasters wanted. Taking that would free up a lot of tonnage that was still going on the roads. Routine mechanical wear and tear as well as isolated Japanese pockets had claimed enough trucks. The workshops in the rear at Penang were doing their best to keep the leading divisions supplied but they had fallen behind. It was only the Navy’s ability to use fishing villages as supply entreports that had allowed for the steady flow of shells and bully beef forward and wounded men and broken vehicles to the rear.


In the 11th Army’s field headquarters, the commanding general looked at his maps and then at his available forces. Only the 7th and 9th Australian Divisions were in decent shape for new operations. They had laid siege to Singora and Patani. It was a slow, deliberate fight where the commanding generals had been ordered and inclined to keep their own casualties low; they had a secondary job and they were not going to bleed pointlessly to screen a flank. His commander had asked for a short update on forces that could be available within fifteen days for unanticipated operations. A few battalions of Malayan and Strait Settlement Volunteers, as well as pioneers and anti-aircraft batteries that were less and less needed could be added to an expeditionary force if it needed to be bulked up.


The two armoured divisions were useless. They had done their job and the jungle and humidity had done a number on the tanks and trucks. Right now, those two divisions were in good enough shape to put a brigade into the field on an emergency basis. They would be back to full strength by March, but they needed time in the Singapore workshops. He still needed the seven divisions of his two assault corps to hold the line and mop up. Another week or two would free up at least two divisions, maybe three, that could then go to the rear to rest and rebuild. His army had won and would eventually finish pocketing 140,000 Japanese soldiers, but those Japanese bastards almost never surrendered so clearing the battlefield after a victory took far more time here than it ever would in Libya, Tunisia or hopefully France again.

 

[fester]

Rzhez, Russia January 10, 1943


The men of the German 102 Rifle Division relaxed. They had been pulled off the front line two days earlier. Hot food, warm beds, and new mail had done wonders to grumbling. Some of the veteran non-commissioned officers were quietly worried at the lack of grumbling. Quiet troops in barracks were unmotivated troops. Battalion and regimental officers had been called to the division’s temporary headquarters. They started to filter back to their barracks. Company and platoon leaders were soon called to battalion headquarters. By nightfall, word had been passed to almost everyone except for a few of the dullards who had managed to be placed on punishment duty after less than three days off the front line. The division would be pulled back to Germany to be reconstituted and retrofitted. A few hundred men, newer replacements and a scattering of scarce specialists were being sent to stiffen a new infantry division that had arrived at the front just before Christmas, but the other 8,800 men were leaving the Eastern Front for the winter.

 

[fester]

Regio Calabria, January 11, 1943


Four dozen Mitchells operating out of the airfields near Bizerte were shuddering and shivering from the impact of flak fragments. Two bombers had already gone down. One burst into flames. The other had at some of its crew descending to the Italian countryside. Two squadrons of Lightnings were roaming ahead while a squadron of Mustangs had begun to tangle with a dozen ME-109s. The bombers had to hold steady as the bombardiers adjusted their sights every so slightly. Soon hundreds of bombs were raining down on the docks along the eastern side of the Straits of Messina. Beneath them, ferries holding the equipment of a Luftwaffe Panzer division shook, rattled and some broke as the bombs were for once near enough to the center point of their target and the pattern was dense enough to do damage.

 

[Winestu]

Prelude to Husky?

 

[mudhead]

The division would be pulled back to Germany to be reconstituted and retrofitted.

AKAIK it never had this "luxury" IOTL - it was kept in the line following it's important role in defending the Rzhev salient against the Mars offensive. An indication of (relative) German strength in the East.

Soon hundreds of bombs were raining down on the docks along the eastern side of the Straits of Messina. Beneath them, ferries holding the equipment of a Luftwaffe Panzer division shook, rattled and some broke as the bombs were for once near enough to the center point of their target and the pattern was dense enough to do damage.

Again AFAIK the German arrivals in Sicily were undisturbed IOTL - which formations included the (reformed) HG. Come to think of it, they weren't much disturbed when leaving it. An indication of (relative) Allied strength in the Med.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Hot food, warm beds, and new mail had done wonders to grumbling.

Does wonders for troop morale and performance regardless of era or ideology.

 

[Viper91]

Prelude to Husky?

I'm guessing Husky or TTL version of it will probably not happen til at least March or April. Give time for the forces that fought in North Africa to rest and rebuild, make any changes necessary based on lessons learned, and bring in more forces to the region.

There's also the strategic situation to consider. The US and British have just had three major strategic victories back to back to back. A lot of stuff is going to have to be discussed in London and Washington.

Edit:

I think this was mention a while back, but I forgot, what battleships and aircraft carriers are the British currently working on. Given that the Germans and Italians have been gutted in terms of capital ships, I'm assuming a lot of planning on the Lion class battleships has likely stopped if it hasn't already been outright cancelled months ahead of time. Has HMS Vanguard even been laid down at this point? Given that the IJN has essentially been gutted, if Vanguard is under construction at this point, I could well see the Admiralty ordering construction haulted.

HMS Vanguard in OTL, by commissioning in 1946, had cost £11,530,503, including £3,186,868 spent on upgrading and improving the main armament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(23)#Construction_and_career

Now I'm guessing at least some of that money will have likely already been spent, say 10% to 20%, but the British could still save several million Pounds by cancelling Vanguard if they haven't already.

Getting rid of the old R class battleships might be a good idea as well if they haven't already done so or otherwise assigned them to low intensity work. Outside of patrol work in the Indian Ocean, those ships never had good careers, and due to no interwar refits and upgrades, in many ways they where somewhat more of a liability then useful. Looking at scrapping them could free up thousands of personnel for other assignments, and perhaps save a fair amount of money going forward.

 

[GrahamH]

Vanguard is being built as a carrier.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/keynes-cruisers.388788/page-368#post-16611068

 

[formion]

An interesting bit of info that we were given during the operation to supply Bataan, is the mention of establishing a base in Riau Islands. The biggest of these islands and the one with the most convenient location is the Natuna Besar. Nowadays it hosts an airport and has enough flat terrain to support the aforementioned base. Such a base in Natuna Besar can not only support the Bataan supply ships but also project air power towards Sarawak and Brunei. Basically, all the west Bornean oil fields are now in P-38/Mustang radius, while a significant portion of the route to Bataan in South China sea becomes safer.

 

[Paulo the Limey]

I think the base is supposed to be a fairly covert rest/resupply/transshipment point for the blockade runners. The last thing they want to do is advertise their presence until they can actually defend the base.

 

[duckie]

I think the base is supposed to be a fairly covert rest/resupply/transshipment point for the blockade runners. The last thing they want to do is advertise their presence until they can actually defend the base.

Indeed, but sending out an scouting/quatermaster party to make a survey is an other thing. with enough lead time (supplies, transport, equipment etc.) an airfield /radar station could be operational before the japanese would be aware of it.

 

[fester]

Riau Islands January 12, 1943


The USS Gay Corsair pulled into the advanced base. Part of the converted torpedo boat was ripped up. A Japanese seaplane had bombed and strafed them 175 miles west of Manila. Two men were wounded, both would walk again but they would need to be flown back to Singapore for a fully equipped hospital to help them recover. Tourniquets and sulfa powder were enough to keep them from bleeding out and avoiding obvious infections, but that was the limit of the skills aboard the blockade runner.


The LT looked around the small anchorage. A new seaplane tender and a small landing craft had arrived. The landing craft was carrying a pair of small bulldozers and a trio of jeeps. Two out of the three destroyer transports that had made the dash into Manila Bay were swinging at anchor. No one knew what happened to USS Colhoun. She had unloaded all of her supplies and had taken on eighty evacuees when she left. She was supposed to have arrived three days ago but there had been no word.


USS Typhon had been lost with all hands. A Japanese patrol boat had intercepted her in the Mindaro Strait. Her twin .50s were inadequate against the Japanese three inch rifle and twenty five millimeter cannons. She tried to run and as she ran, she called for help, but a shot twenty five minutes into the battle crippled an engine and allowed for the massacre to continue without doubt.


Four more of the wooden blockade runners were at sea. Two were inbound and two were returning home. Lt. Kennedy and his crew could look forward to a few days to conduct repairs and then a wait for the moon to wane from full. And then they would be on their way again.

 

[fester]

Surabaya, Java January 12, 1943


USS Vestal arrived. The Dutch shipyard was overwhelmed with repairs. They had fixed half a dozen lightly damaged destroyers and were able to get the damaged Dutch ships into yard hands. USS Lexington was barely afloat outside of the harbor. Any repairs to her from local resources would be both temporary, poorly done and at the cost of every other ship. The American repair ship could tackle that task.

 

[Butchpfd]

Surabaya, Java January 12, 1943


USS Vestal arrived. The Dutch shipyard was overwhelmed with repairs. They had fixed half a dozen lightly damaged destroyers and were able to get the damaged Dutch ships into yard hands. USS Lexington was barely afloat outside of the harbor. Any repairs to her from local resources would be both temporary, poorly done and at the cost of every other ship. The American repair ship could tackle that task.

Vestal. Queen of repair ships..survived being bombed and being alongside USS Arizona, at Pearl Harbor, repaired herself and worked on everyone else then to new Caledonia and now in ttl..toJava..

 

[historyfelon]

Is a 'repair ship" what we in the 70's knew as a Destroyer Tender, or an AD? In Charleston we were tied up down the pier from the USS Yellowstone, a destroyer tender that seemed to have everything within its bowels..various machine shops, warehouses, medical facilities, and mess facilities to take care of the crew of another ship or two when needed.

 

[Butchpfd]

Repair ships were designed to fix anything that was broken on any vessel, in particular cruisers and Battleships, but most importantly, battle damage. If a Destroyer Tender or Seaplane Tender, or Submarine Tender could not fix it, or needed fixing themselves, they turned to the repair ship!