"Io Mihailŭ, Împĕratul Românilor" - A Michael the Brave Romania Wank

[Zagan]

thats a grandfatherly figure

Her father, Henry IV of France, was 5 years older than Mihai.
She never knew her grandfathers.

I am a bit curious why she is so eager to marry Michael...
she knows she will be a widow quite soon...again.

She is expansive by nature and quick to decide on any matter.

Anyway, her influence in Romania will be significant.

 

[Avrorrange]

Her father, Henry IV of France, was 5 years older than Mihai.
She never knew her grandfathers.



She is expansive by nature and quick to decide on any matter.

Anyway, her influence in Romania will be significant.

Given she's actually from a well established royal family,I'd presume she would purge some of the more parvenu elements of the Romanian court and bring Romanian court customs more in line with the Western European ones.

 

[Zagan]

Given she's actually from a well established royal family,I'd presume she would purge some of the more parvenu elements of the Romanian court and bring Romanian court customs more in line with the Western European ones.

The second one - for sure. Imitation is powerful.
The first one - probably attempted. Actual success - dubious.

One interesting aspect is that she is somehow unusual, being very extrovert and rather non-conformist.
The Boyars and especially the Priests will have a shock.

 

[Zagan]

Problem!

That's the first time I actually realized this:

Instead of OTL ~300-400 Sovereign Entities in 16xx Europe, in TTL there are less than 20.

In about 2 generations at most, the Royals will not have anyone to marry!

Solutions:
1. Keep inbreeding until severely handicapped.
2. Accept the Princes from the Federal German and Italian States as equals for matrimonial purposes.
3. Accept the Nobles as potential marriage candidates.
4. Simply marry just about everyone, like in present day OTL.

Any ideas?

 

[Avrorrange]

That's the first time I actually realized this:

Instead of OTL ~300-400 Sovereign Entities in 16xx Europe, in TTL there are less than 20.

In about 2 generations at most, the Royals will not have anyone to marry!

Solutions:
1. Keep inbreeding until severely handicapped.
2. Accept the Princes from the Federal German and Italian States as equals for matrimonial purposes.
3. Accept the Nobles as potential marriage candidates.
4. Simply marry just about everyone, like in present day OTL.

Any ideas?

Most plausible.3 is also plausible,less so than 2,but plausible nonetheless,especially between cadet branches.

 

[Zagan]

Most plausible.3 is also plausible,less so than 2,but plausible nonetheless,especially between cadet branches.

Thanks.

 

[Avrorrange]

Thanks. ......

Although,I must say that the German and Italian bride market would have had reduced incentives than OTL.Given nationalism,you will probably not see rivals of Italy and Germany marrying the children of German princes.How would the rest of the country feel if the ruler of let's say Prussia married his daughter to the king of France?They'd be extremely suspicious of him.

 

[Sian]

yeah ... a mixture of 2 and 3 is the most plausible ... here and there, there might be a case of 1 popping up, but except for a oddball case here or there i don't see 4 happening. and those rare cases would mainly be due to acknowledging a mistress and her bastards, in cases where either there aren't any trueborn boys, or none of them is viable heirs and even the dumbest blind farmer would recognize it.

 

[Zagan]

Although,I must say that the German and Italian bride market would have had reduced incentives than OTL.Given nationalism,you will probably not see rivals of Italy and Germany marrying the children of German princes.How would the rest of the country feel if the ruler of let's say Prussia married his daughter to the king of France?They'd be extremely suspicious of him.

True. Local Nobles might be preferable in some countries. It would mostly depend on how valued the public opinion will be.

yeah ... a mixture of 2 and 3 is the most plausible ... here and there, there might be a case of 1 popping up, but except for a oddball case here or there i don't see 4 happening. and those rare cases would mainly be due to acknowledging a mistress and her bastards, in cases where either there aren't any trueborn boys, or none of them is viable heirs and even the dumbest blind farmer would recognize it.

Yes. The children of a mistress might be better than no heirs at all. Makes sense.

Anyway, it was just a thought that passed through my mind. It will not became a real issue until about 1660, I suppose.

 

[Sian]

True. Local Nobles might be preferable in some countries. It would mostly depend on how valued the public opinion will be.

It would of cause depend on how entrenced and strong the Nobility is in the respective countries. If the King is Autocratic enough or there is some kind of parlament where the burghers and/or clergy are strong enough, then it would be a much less interesting idea.

Also, it might not only be local nobility, but sometimes also nobility in neighbouring countries, either due to the countries being allied, or because it would give them some solid 'sources' either for knowing what happens aboard, or for instigating unrest there.

 

[Zagan]

1. It would of cause depend on how entrenced and strong the Nobility is in the respective countries. If the King is Autocratic enough or there is some kind of parlament where the burghers and/or clergy are strong enough, then it would be a much less interesting idea.

2. Also, it might not only be local nobility, but sometimes also nobility in neighbouring countries, either due to the countries being allied,

3. or because it would give them some solid 'sources' either for knowing what happens aboard,

4. or for instigating unrest there.

1. Yeah. There are cases and cases. It really depends upon too many factors.

2. True as well.

3. It's the 17th century! If you need to know what happens abroad, you buy a damn newspaper!

4. Maybe...

 

[Sian]

3. It's the 17th century! If you need to know what happens abroad, you buy a damn newspaper!

I guess thats why US only bought Pravda instead of sending spies to the Sovjet Union or talking some of its populace into giving them the info they want ... wait

 

[Avrorrange]

It would of cause depend on how entrenced and strong the Nobility is in the respective countries. If the King is Autocratic enough or there is some kind of parlament where the burghers and/or clergy are strong enough, then it would be a much less interesting idea.

Also, it might not only be local nobility, but sometimes also nobility in neighbouring countries, either due to the countries being allied, or because it would give them some solid 'sources' either for knowing what happens aboard, or for instigating unrest there.

Depends,a king might want an alliance with a powerful statesman or general to reign in the parliament.

 

[Zagan]

I guess thats why US only bought Pravda instead of sending spies to the Sovjet Union or talking some of its populace into giving them the info they want ... wait

Oh, that kind of information... Now I see what you meant.

Depends,a king might want an alliance with a powerful statesman or general to reign in the parliament.

Parliaments or equivalent institutions exist now (or are going to be created soon enough) in: Britain, Scandinavia, Germany, Sarmatia, Romania, Italy, Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary.

No such thing exists, or if it exists it is completely non-functional, in: Iberia, France, Russia, Greece, Georgia.

 

[Sian]

Oh, that kind of information... Now I see what you meant.

The chance to marry into a royal house, even if foreign, that aligns (or appears so) with your opinions how the world should run, is a large carrot to dangle in front of certain persons.

 

[Zagan]

The chance to marry into a royal house, even if foreign, that aligns (or appears so) with your opinions how the world should run, is a large carrot to dangle in front of certain persons.

It may be more valuable than gold for certain people.
I will think about it.

 

[Zagan]

Old Map of Europe​

I had some time and I wanted to make a nice map, so:

1. I found this map on Wikimedia Commons: 1644 Europa Recens Blaeu.
You have the high resolution map here.

2. I edited it a little in order to be like a map done in TTL in about 1630.
After about an hour and a half, I got this high resolution map. (because I am not allowed to attach something so large here, I used imgur)

3. I reduced it to 12.5% on both axes and I got this thumbnail:

Again, in case you missed it, the full resolution map is here.

I hope that you enjoy my work.


Edit: So, for the sake of the story, let's say that Willem Blaeu made this map in TTL 1630.

 

[Dementor]

And let me clarify another thing once again.

The Romanian Cyrillic alphabet was only used in Moldavia and Wallachia and almost only in Church / Religious texts.

It has never been actually fused with the language and had never been properly adapted to the Romanian language. It was not missed at all.

Then what language and alphabet exactly were used before the Romanian Latin alphabet was invented in the 19th century?

 

[Zagan]

Then what language and alphabet exactly were used before the Romanian Latin alphabet was invented in the 19th century?

The Romanian Language was used of course.
Until about 1840, it was mostly an oral language; we had almost no literature and most of the population was illiterate.
The Romanian Cyrillic Alphabet had been in use in Wallachia and Moldavia. By in use, I mean by those very few who could read and write, most of them being priests.
In Transylvania, everybody used the Latin alphabet only.

After the introduction of the Romanian Latin-based alphabet, literacy increased rapidly; a Romanian literary language emerged and literature began to be written and published.

In a nutshell: Probably only a few thousands people ever used the Cyrillic Alphabet to write the Romanian Language in the 5 centuries it has been supposedly in use!

After Alexandru Ioan Cuza (1859-1866), the first Domnitor of Romania, more people became literate in the Latin Alphabet in any village in less than a year than were ever literate in the whole history of the Cyrrilic alphabet in all of the Romanian Lands! (school became free and compulsory in the same period)

Edit: The phonology of a Romance language, like Romanian, makes it very awkward to write it with a Cyrrilic alphabet which is designed for Slavic languages.

 

[Summoner]

Edit: The phonology of a Romance language, like Romanian, makes it very awkward to write it with a Cyrillic alphabet which is designed for Slavic languages.

Interesting. Can you please expand on this and why it is a poor choice for Romanian language? Sorry for the somewhat off topic question.

The reason for this question is because in Moldova, the Moldovan Cyrillic alphabet was used until its independence from USSR and continues to be used in Transistria.

One would think (at least me, only familiar with Romanian through speaking with my in-laws) that a sound is a sound whether represented by a Latin letter or Cyrillic letter. Thanks...