"Io Mihailŭ, Împĕratul Românilor" - A Michael the Brave Romania Wank

[Zagan]

Note: Since the Board Upgrade, some of my posts (including this flag post) have been in need of some edits. Because of the New Board rules (no more than 20 linked images per post), this post cannot be edited anymore and I had to split its content in the two previous posts (on the previous page). I hope that this is not inconvenient to any of you.

Flags​

National Flags of Europe
(continued)​

14. Georgia (a little later)

Flag of the old Georgian Kingdom.

15. Armenia (later)

Featuring: Flag of the old Kingdom of Cilicia (adapted), Five stars representing the five Armenian Provinces.

Flags of Other States​

16. Ottoman Empire

OTL 17th century Flag.

17. Empire of Persia

OTL 17th century Flag.

18. Kingdom of Morocco

OTL 17th century Flag.

19. Kingdom of Egypt (later)

New design; proposed by Caranaar

20. Caliphate of Arabia (later)

Green Flag of Islam.

21. Kingdom of Israel (later)

Similar to OTL Flag.

Other Flags​

22. Flag of Peace / Truce / Surrender

Official, starting from the Great Power Conference; OTL Flag.

23. Flag of European Cristendom

Official, starting from the Great Power Conference;
Representing Europe as a whole, Roman Antiquity inheritance, Western culture, Christian Faith, the Great Power Council (flown at its headquarters);
Featuring: Neutral Colors, Roman Empire symbolism (motto) SPQR, Christian Crosses.

Comments?

 

[Voyager75]

The only acceptable Italian flag is no. 3. The other two look horrible (sorry).

 

[Zagan]

The only acceptable Italian flag is no. 3. The other two look horrible (sorry).

No problem. Let's hope that the representatives of the nine Italian States will choose it.

 

[Chrispi]

1. I mean, readability for us, Romanian speakers.

2. Sure. The project (partially) failed TTL.

3. I did see the parallel with the adoption of hangul as well. A difference though: Latin letters already existed and were widely used all over Europe. Hangul was a new invention.
Given that more than 99% of the Romanians were illiterate, the change was easier and was felt less in the populace.

4. If you continue reading the TL, you will see that the flag was already posted on page 3 (waving in a breeze) and on page 4 (flat). The flags of the other countries (around 20) will be presented in the next update.
I also hinted about a coat of arms, great seal, motto, patron saint and anthem.
Sadly, I am not such a good graphics designer to be able to create the coat of arms and great seal myself.

Edit: How did you make that animated gif?

I'll have to drop (but not concede) the first two points about linguistics, due to time constraints.

What was the printing industry like in Romania during the first part of the 17th century? If it was niche or weak, how will Michael be able to bring in Latin foundries and printing presses that are controlled by his Habsburg enemies? He could go to the Poles etc...

As for the two variants of the Romanian flag

and

,

the flag on the right places the stateless Aromanians in last place, beneath the Wallachian, Transylvanian and Moldavian states, while the flag on the left places the black Aromanian bar at the honor point or chief, as the vexillologists would say. Furthermore, since iron is heraldically black, the Iron Crown is honored as a symbol of unity in the left, but in last place in the right, quite contrary to Michael's intention to be sure!

Symbolism is important.

 

[Chrispi]

As for the flapping .gif, I used abFlags.

 

[Chrispi]

Wow, I just noticed your flags post! (Finding a free image hosting site and linking to it for my last post occupied an hour of my time.)

 

[Zagan]

1. I'll have to drop (but not concede) the first two points about linguistics, due to time constraints.

2. What was the printing industry like in Romania during the first part of the 17th century? If it was niche or weak, how will Michael be able to bring in Latin foundries and printing presses that are controlled by his Habsburg enemies? He could go to the Poles etc...

3. As for the two variants of the Romanian flag [snip] and [snip], the flag on the right places the stateless Aromanians in last place, beneath the Wallachian, Transylvanian and Moldavian states, while the flag on the left places the black Aromanian bar at the honor point or chief, as the vexillologists would say. Furthermore, since iron is heraldically black, the Iron Crown is honored as a symbol of unity in the left, but in last place in the right, quite contrary to Michael's intention to be sure!
Symbolism is important.

4. As for the flapping .gif, I used abFlags.

1. Ok. You are probably right. I just choose that way (not good for historical veridicity, but good for literary purposes). We may continue the discussion later.
Anyway, it is impossible to modify now, because the posts in question are older than one month.

2. Few Printing Presses with Cyrillics in Wallachia and Moldavia;
Lots of Printing Presses with Latin Letters in Transylvania, so OK.
The Habsurgs are to be defeated in 1602 (you shall read about it when you shall have enough time). By 1626 (the time TTL is now) Austria is no more.

3. Oh... I did not know so many things about flags.
The Romanian Flag design may change in the future (I think I will change it, perhaps when Mihai's granddaughter inherits the throne...).
I can not change it retroactively for the same reason: posts in question are older than one month.

4. Thanks.

5. You shall take a look at the flags in the first post on this page. At least that is still editable!

 

[Zagan]

Finding a free image hosting site and linking to it for my last post occupied an hour of my time.

Now that is strange!

I have never used a "free image hosting site" whatever that might be!

All my images (maps, flags, tables, etc) are hosted right here on AH.com, as attachments. I really never thought that someone might do otherwise.

 

[Chrispi]

Responses to the flag post:

1. The Iberian flag is too busy and breaks the tincture rule. I'll make a response flag.
2. Wouldn't the French national flag be white, not blue, and without the fleurs-de-lis?
3. Aren't the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland still separate?
4. Fair enough.
5. Isn't this Austrian?
6. Discussing.
7. I made a similar flag a decade or so ago, but with the Danish flag atop the Swede:
   
   
   
8. Fair enough.
9. Fair enough.
10. Fair enough.
11. Seems historic. This, or with the cross arms extending throughout.
12. Delete the black crosses and they would look better.
    
    
    
    
    
13. Fair enough, for now.
14. Fair enough.
15. Fair enough.
16. Fair enough.
17. Fair enough.
18. Fair enough.
19. Can't complain.
20. Simplicity at its end.
21. Can't complain.
22. The white flag can represent truce, surrender, France or the European white race generally (and simultaneously!)
23. See number 22.

 

[Chrispi]

Now that is strange!

I have never used a "free image hosting site" whatever that might be!

All my images (maps, flags, tables, etc) are hosted right here on AH.com, as attachments. I really never thought that someone might do otherwise.

I used Photobucket to store my images generally, not just here.

 

[Zagan]

Responses to the flag post:

1. The Iberian flag is too busy and breaks the tincture rule. I'll make a response flag.
2. Wouldn't the French national flag be white, not blue, and without the fleurs-de-lis?
3. Aren't the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland still separate?
4. Fair enough.
5. Isn't this Austrian?
6. Discussing.
7. I made a similar flag a decade or so ago, but with the Danish flag atop the Swede: [snip]
8. Fair enough.
9. Fair enough.
10. Fair enough.
11. Seems historic. This, or with the cross arms extending throughout.
12. Delete the black crosses and they would look better. [snip]
13. Fair enough, for now.
14. Fair enough.
15. Fair enough.
16. Fair enough.
17. Fair enough.
18. Fair enough.
19. Can't complain.
20. Simplicity at its end.
21. Can't complain.
22. The white flag can represent truce, surrender, France or the European white race generally (and simultaneously!)
23. See number 22.

1. Ok, I'll wait. Thank you for your time and effort.
2. This variant was also used IOTL. It was prefered ITTL exactly because of white flag = truce, surrender.
3. No. TTL are already merged (Britannia = England-Scotland-Ireland).
5. No! Austrian flag was yellow or something. The current OTL Austrian flag is very recent. And anyway Austria is no more ITTL.
6. Later.
7. I see, a similar idea. No offence, I think mine looks a little better.
11. That variant as well. I had to choose one. I prefered this one because it has an actual Greek Cross.
12. YES!
22. It had to have a specific meaning. Confusion between France / Europe / Surrender on a battlefield may have dire consequences.
23. Will be used very seldom anyway: At the Great Power Council headquarters, meetings etc, at common events or great aliances, in common protectorates (Jerusalem in the future of TTL) etc.

In conclusion, I will change:
1. Iberia (waiting for more input)
6. Romania (later)
12. Italy (variants 1 and 2) - ASAP... DONE!

Thank you again.

 

[Chrispi]

1. Ok, I'll wait. Thank you for your time and effort.
2. This variant was also used IOTL. It was prefered ITTL exactly because of white flag = truce, surrender.
3. No. TTL are already merged (Britannia = England-Scotland-Ireland).
5. No! Austrian flag was yellow or something. The current OTL Austrian flag is very recent. And anyway Austria is no more ITTL.
6. Later.
7. I see, a similar idea. No offence, I think mine looks a little better.
11. That variant as well. I had to choose one. I prefered this one because it has an actual Greek Cross.
12. YES!
22. It had to have a specific meaning. Confusion between France / Europe / Surrender on a battlefield may have dire consequences.
23. Will be used very seldom anyway: At the Great Power Council headquarters, meetings etc, at common events or great aliances, in common protectorates (Jerusalem in the future of TTL) etc.

In conclusion, I will change:
1. Iberia (waiting for more input)
6. Romania (later)
12. Italy (variants 1 and 2) - ASAP... DONE!

Thank you again.

Responses:

1. I'm thinking of a flag similar to the Italian one, but with blue instead of green.

2. After some digging, I think that the French national flag would be a simple white cross on blue, similar to Quebec's.

3. The closest thing Ireland had to a national flag in the 1600s was a gold harp on blue or green; no St. Patrick's saltire or anything close to it. That, and England, Scotland and Ireland were three kingdoms in a personal union. Thus, their Union Jack would be

5. See this link.

Nothing controversial until

22. Maybe the Great Powers Council will standardize heraldry throughout Europe, and internationalize the use of single-color flags (white for truce, black for death, red for war etc...) Let me think on that.

 

[Zagan]

Responses:

1. I'm thinking of a flag similar to the Italian one, but with blue instead of green.

2. After some digging, I think that the French national flag would be a simple white cross on blue, similar to Quebec's.

3. The closest thing Ireland had to a national flag in the 1600s was a gold harp on blue or green; no St. Patrick's saltire or anything close to it. That, and England, Scotland and Ireland were three kingdoms in a personal union. Thus, their Union Jack would be [snip]

5. See this link.

Nothing controversial until
22. Maybe the Great Powers Council will standardize heraldry throughout Europe, and internationalize the use of single-color flags (white for truce, black for death, red for war etc...) Let me think on that.

1. An example, please...

2. Possible, I will try it.

3. Ok, I will leave it without the red saltire then. But, please, either read TTL to the end or believe my word: England, Scotland and Ireland are totally merged ITTL, not merely in a personal union.

5. "It may have seen use in flags from about the 15th century,[citation needed] alongside the black-and-yellow colours of the House of Habsburg and other insignia of the Holy Roman Empire. It was adopted as a naval ensign in the 18th century, and as national flag in 1918."
Anyway, what is really important is that:
- There was no Austria any more ITTL 1626.
- The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth actually used IOTL a flag similar to that.

22. Ok...

Thanks.

 

[mlp]

Holy shit, Romania is fucking huge now.
Good job Zagan, good job.
Will we see an enforcement of Romanian in public schools or the like?

 

[Zagan]

Holy shit, Romania is fucking huge now.
Good job Zagan, good job.
Will we see an enforcement of Romanian in public schools or the like?

Yes, Romania is huge. And it is only getting larger.

Well... Not exactly "enforcement", but:
- "Public" Schools were only opened beside Romanian Orthodox Churches, using only the Romanian Language;
- The Romanian Orthodox Church was the only Orthodox Church available by Law to the Non-Ethnic-Greek Orthodoxes (i.e. Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, Ruthenians);
- The children of the other minorities were also encouraged to go to school (Romanian Schools of course).

So, basicly:
- The Bulgarians (including OTL "Macedonians"), the Serbs (including OTL "Montenegrins" and TTL still Orthodox "Bosnians"), the Albanians (including OTL "Kosovars") and the Ukrainians (Ruthenians) stand literally no chance of resisting as separate nationalities (ethnic assimilation is almost certain when religion gets heavily involved).
- The other minorities (of different Christian religions) will be less assimilated.
- The Muslims and the Jews will get attempted forced conversion, expulsion and other "niceties".

Overall, the proportion of ethnic Romanians will only increase.

 

[mlp]

snip

Well it's good to see Eastern Europe as a major player in diplomacy, instead of the usual Western Europe vs. Russia.
Will there be an update on other regions, i.e. the Americas or Asia?

 

[Zagan]

Well it's good to see Eastern Europe as a major player in diplomacy, instead of the usual Western Europe vs. Russia.
Will there be an update on other regions, i.e. the Americas or Asia?

Of course, but a little later.
You see, for example the British and Dutch Colonies in North America (the future OTL USA) have probably no more than 50,000 people at this time (1626). No interesting things can happen there.

You will have some World maps soon though.

 

[Salvador79]

A nice read, and, with this pretty flag page, also something for the eye. O frumoseţe! Good job, Zagan! I haven`t regretted subscribing to this timeline for a single second.

 

[mlp]

Of course, but a little later.
You see, for example the British and Dutch Colonies in North America (the future OTL USA) have probably no more than 50,000 people at this time (1626). No interesting things can happen there.

You will have some World maps soon though.

I'll wait patiently. Make'm good, Zagan, make'm good.
If you need help on East Asian history of this era I'm willing to help if you need one.

 

[Zagan]

A nice read, and, with this pretty flag page, also something for the eye. O frumoseţe! Good job, Zagan! I haven`t regretted subscribing to this timeline for a single second.

Thank you.

I'll wait patiently. Make'm good, Zagan, make'm good.
If you need help on East Asian history of this era I'm willing to help if you need one.

Ok.

Yes, because I know very little about Medieval East Asian History.

You see, the common plans of "Europe" / "The Great Powers Council" are something like that:
1. Colonisation of the Americas (and Australia, New Zealand, Pacific, etc, later).
2. Conquest and destruction of Muslim States.
3. Benevolent involvement, political and economical influence and attempted Christianization in India, China and the Far East.

Now, here are the problems:
- India: may fall more or less like IOTL.
- Indonesia: Muslim, so see point 2.
- Indochina: may fall more or less like IOTL.
- Korea, Japan, China: ??

Is Christianization (at least partial) possible anywhere? Where? How deep?