I'm not quite sure about Egypt just yet as I haven't really got that far in terms of planning. Plus I'm not that familiar with Egyptian history during this period. Though I'm open to new ideas though. How do you see Muhammed Ali's Empire doing this?
Imperator Francorum: A Napoleon II Timeline
- Thread starter Basileus_Komnenos
- Start date
Something nobody expects! Lmao
Basically I'm planning on having Spain keep much of it Empire intact by avoiding the Liberal Trienium. One byproduct of this is that there would be a Carlist Victory in the Spanish Civil War with Napoleon II becoming major allies with Don Carlos. Revolutionary Imperial France and Legitimist Spain would be quite strange bedfellows in the 19th century.
Glad you're enjoying it so far! I planned on posting an update this week, but that got delayed because of exams. Do you have any thoughts/suggestions about this tl?
Not an expert in the period but I find Nappy dying after everything (except the 100 Days) to be a counter intuitive POD (in a good way).
There was still the Battles of Hanau, La Rothiere, the Six Days Campaign (arguably Napoleon's most brilliant campaign), the Battles of Craonne, Laon, Rheims, etc. I do agree though. Him dying in 1813-1814 is indeed more apt to make Napoleon a martyr, because his performance in both years was characterized by greater success than in 1815, and he still had some ways to fall.
Yeah I agree with you here. The Six Days Campaign showed why he was still The master of war. But in the end he was done in by all of Europe rising to overwhelm and over power him as he couldn’t divide and conquer anymore.
Plus here In ttl Napoleon was actually winning at Leipzig where he led the final charge to break the Coalition’s encirclement, but he was shot dead at the last moment by a lucky enemy shot. Plus seeing L’Aigle fall like that shocked his troops and immediately caused their morale to collapse.
Though it was enough to inspire Eugene to fight on Italy in a near hopeless attempt to avenge Napoleon whom he was quite close to. Had it not been for Murat’s and Caroline’s treachery he might been able to push for Napoleon II’s right to the French Throne which would have been something that the the Austrians wanted, or at least that’s how the Bonapartists will see it.
Do you have any suggestions/thoughts about this alternate Bourbon Restoration?
At what stage of the battle does this happen? The first day's assault on the Austrians that nearly succeeded? Or on the third or fourth day? Napoleon wasn't fully encircled at any stage of the battle, so he did not need to cut his way out when it was clear he was losing the battle. Was he cut off ITTL?
Edit: nevermind, it seems that he decided to attack again on the third day instead of retreating.
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Unless bismark ends up working for Austria then no, i don't think so. Prussian ambitions for a prussian lead 'small Germany' were directly opposed to Austrian and French interests, which combined with François' bonaparte and hapsburg background mean that he's their ideal arch-nemesis, at least as far as propaganda is concerned.
I’m wondering who Napoleon II is going to marry, since I’m OTL, he had a close relationship with Princess Sophie of Bavaria
Not to mention Bismarck is very, very conservative, in comparison to the more liberal Bonapartists.
Yup. Plus Napoleon's advisers even before Leipzig advised him to flee to France to defend the Empire through Italian Alps and the Rhine. But Napoleon didn't want to lose his power over Germany something he spent years trying to get. He also believed that he had a chance of winning which was true. He almost won the battle, and had he done so, France would have likely had its Empire preserved.
Austria would likely be scared white with an angry Napoleon bearing down upon them. Prussia depending on the state of Napoleon's army might also find itself overrun as there were other garrisons of troops all stationed throughout the fringes of the Empire like the Duchy of Warsaw.
There was some speculation that Franz-Joseph's brother, the Archduke and later Mexican Emperor Maximilian was the son of Napoleon II as the result of an ongoing affair between Napoleon II and Princess Sophie. The Habsburgs' enemies certainly played up that rumor. Though this rumor is likely false as Napoleon II was six years younger than the Archduchess and closely monitored by Metternich. I doubt Napoleon would have done something so stupid like that to disgrace himself and destroy his already precarious position. I'm not quite sure who Napoleon will marry just yet, but I think it will be more or less after he takes the throne since he's only in his early 20's by the time of the 1830's. I'm open to ideas if anyone has them.
Unfortunately this likely wouldn't occur as Bismarck was a devout Prussian and monarchist. In otl a young Bismarck raised a Medieval style peasant army from his lands in defense of the Prussian King when he was held hostage by a group of armed Revolutionaries in the Capital. Of course during his march on Berlin he was turned down by the actual Prussian Army who didn't want an untrained peasant mob making things worse.
Napoleon I himself was quite conservative as well. He hated La Marseillaise for instance and had initially banned it, but played it when his armies were marching through Germany to present himself as the embodiment of French nationalism abroad. Napoleon I's strand of Bonapartism is essentially a Roman style concept of popular autocracy in the manner of Caesar. Though Napoleon II however was a man born into the world of his father while also being raised in the Old World values of his grandfather the Habsburgs. Augustus was quite conservative in comparison to Caesar, and presented himself as restoring Rome back to its tradition and past when times were good. Though I can see someone like Louis-Napoleon becoming the leader of the more liberal Bonapartist faction.
Off topic fact, in OTL, Napoleon II was a very tall man. He was 6 feet tall when he was 17. So, ironically, his Father, Napoleon is portrayed as short (even though he was average about the time), Napoleon II maybe portrayed as tall as then most people
I've got an idea!
Bismarck at his birth on April 1, 1815 is captured by bonapartists in Germany. 🤪
They educate the young child to become a fervent Francophile Bonapartist. 🤪
Then Bismarck unified France with Germany and recreated the Carolingian Empire.🤪
Bismarck at his birth on April 1, 1815 is captured by bonapartists in Germany. 🤪
They educate the young child to become a fervent Francophile Bonapartist. 🤪
Then Bismarck unified France with Germany and recreated the Carolingian Empire.🤪
![[totally a legit person]](/forum/data/avatars/m/134/134906.jpg?1617940240){kind=avatar}
The Golden Chancellor's time is now, for revolutionary-reactionism?!
As much as I love this idea, I don't think it'd really be possible here. Bismarck's family was minor Prussian nobility and there was really no reason for Bonapartists to really capture him especially since his family lived in Pomerania which was far from the actual fighting. Plus Prussia was actually independent of Napoleon's Empire and its people hated Napoleon. Bismarck in his youth also took to wearing Prussian military uniforms and became an army reservist while he was studying agriculture at the university of Grieswald. Though I could maybe see him travel to France as a young man to see what it's like. After all Bismarck was only four years younger than Napoleon II would be coming of age right when Napoleon II takes over. He would likely be horrified at the prospect of a revived French Empire right on Prussia's doorstep and might end up as a proponent for German Unification to counter the French Menace. After all German Nationalism largely gained traction in opposition to Napoleon with his occupation of most Germany and his implementation of conscription and other unpopular policies in the region.
Bismarck could very well end up as a German Reactionary Revolutionary holding up the true German tricolor (black, white red). Though I'm not quite sure what to do with Bismarck quite yet as I have various plans for Germany that will differ from otl in many ways as a result of butterflies.
Napoleon I was actually above the average height of a Frenchman at the time by two inches which makes the myth about his height even more ironic. Plus Napoleon surrounded himself with his tall physically imposing Imperial Guards as well. Napoleon II in terms of physical appearance certainly looked more Habsburg than Corsican, and this conflicting loyalty/identity will be a major part of his character that will be explore in future chapters. Hopefully Napoleon II wasn't screwed with the tendency of the Bonapartes getting cancer which killed his grandfather, and many of his uncles and aunts.
Without a Waterloo, I expect many historical debates if Napoleon could defeat Arthur Wellesley, the brilliant general who freed Spain. I imagine the majority of the military historians would say Napoleon except for some Anglophiles.
I'd personally bet on Napoleon if all conditions were equal and Napoleon had his army up to full strength. One of the reasons why the deck was stacked against him after his retreat from Russia is that many of his best troops and experienced officers were dead or unfit to fight. While Marshal Ney earned acclaim for his action and was one of the last to retreat becoming dubbed "the Prince of Moscow" by Napoleon, he was also shell-shocked/had a bit of PTSD from his experiences that hampered his combat effectiveness. Napoleon also suffered a critical cavalry shortage which limited his army's mobility and its ability to gather enemy intelligence which was key in many of his earlier stunning victories like at Marengo, Austerlitz, Jena, etc. Plus when Napoleon personally led his army in Spain he took Madrid. Had Austria not declared war upon him, it's likely that Spain would have eventually fallen to his forces. Plus Napoleon's Six Days Campaign showed he still had his brilliance with him. Even during the Hundred Days, Napoleon put up a good fight despite being undermined by spies and double agents like Fouche who was hedging his bets on whether Napoleon or the Coalition would be victorious.
As for Wellington I can imagine that he'd still be the darling of the British Army since he was already very well distinguished and popular on the battlefield. Though his career in politics might advance a tad bit slower than in otl.