Imperator Francorum: A Napoleon II Timeline

[Flosgon78]

Wasn't there another one named Charles Leon?


On the topic for discussions what about naming Napoleon II's future children lol. You can name his first son Napoleon to get that unbroken lineage but how about naming his second/third sons after ancient Frankish kings because he is both French and German?

Also but he is far less important because Alexandre has been a minister during the second empire and his descendant and thus the one of the emperor are still alive today ! I don't think so, medieval ages weren't really an exemple at the time. It could really seems weard or old fashion for the french people of the time.

You can use the "edit" function of your first post to add your new remarks and thus avoid spam. And even if several days separate your different posts in a row, this can be cumbersome for third parties to read and may attract moderators who may see it as a form of spam.

I use it now thanks. But as I said, I wasn't reading the answers until I get to page 28, so this is the reason why I didn't saw anything

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

The Empress is Legitimist, Prince Napoleon (aka his son) is Republican, Morny is Orleanist, I am myself a Socialist; only Persigny is a Bonapartist, and he is crazy".

Oh yeah I remember this quote. Napoleon III actually won over the urban poor/working class with some of these talking points of his.

Autotranslate exist thought it's not always very well traduced lol I could send some of them here if you want.

Could you PM me those? I don’t want to clog/derail this thread.

I would have also a suggestion about people around the empire in 1848, where a part from Louis-Napoléon, the key characters in the republic where the general Eugène Cavaignac and much more intersting, the first head of government in the second republic is the famous french poet Alphonse de Lamartine. You even had the author of De la Démocratie en Amérique, Alexis de Tocqueville as minister of foreign affair If you didn't know them, you could include them or maybe not, tell me what do you think about it

I was passively aware of them. Though 1848 in France is going to be vastly different in Europe than in otl. I intend for Napoleon to eventually take power in 1830 so by 1848 Europe will be experiencing drastically different political circumstances.

In terms of Imperial politics, Napoleon II being half-Habsburg will have a very different view of what “Bonapartism” would be than his cousin.

Also another question what would be the position of Napoléon about his bastard half-brother Alexandre Colonna-Walewski

Probably similar to otl. Napoleon III actually dispatched him to negotiate an alliance with the South German states before the Franco Prussian War. These talks were proceeding quite well until his untimely death prevented anything solid from forming.

You can name his first son Napoleon to get that unbroken lineage but how about naming his second/third sons after ancient Frankish kings because he is both French and German?

I mean maybe, but he would probably stick with the traditional naming conventions of the Bonapartes.

 

[[totally a legit person]]

In terms of Imperial politics, Napoleon II being half-Habsburg will have a very different view of what “Bonapartism” would be than his cousin.



Probably similar to otl. Napoleon III actually dispatched him to negotiate an alliance with the South German states before the Franco Prussian War. These talks were proceeding quite well until his untimely death prevented anything solid from forming.



I mean maybe, but he would probably stick with the traditional naming conventions of the Bonapartes.

With a lot more autocracy and whole lot of Carolingian imagery I'd wager?

He seems like a good candidate for Napoleon to send as a diplomat to the Southern German states to potentially break them from the Zollverein, having France take the place of Prussia in dominating the economics of central Europe would certainly help them down the road.

Considering Napoleon II likely never had any contact with anyone on his father's side of his family, at least frequently enough to matter, I could see him wanting to name his own kids using his own conventions, I'd doubt anyone would try to stop him if he decided to name his son Lothair.

The following quote is attributed to Napoleon III about Bonapartism under the Second Empire :
« L’Impératrice est légitimiste ; le prince Napoléon est républicain ; Morny est orléaniste ; moi-même, je suis socialiste ; il n’y a que Persigny qui soit bonapartiste, et il est fou »
trad :
"The Empress is Legitimist, Prince Napoleon (aka his son) is Republican, Morny is Orleanist, I am myself a Socialist; only Persigny is a Bonapartist, and he is crazy".

Personally my favourite quote from Napoleon III.

Now all we need is for Napoleon II to invent something akin to Geoism, to round it all out, it would certainly make for some interesting developments in France, and the world, especially if his cousin influences him.

 

[Flosgon78]

I was passively aware of them. Though 1848 in France is going to be vastly different in Europe than in otl. I intend for Napoleon to eventually take power in 1830 so by 1848 Europe will be experiencing drastically different political circumstances.

In terms of Imperial politics, Napoleon II being half-Habsburg will have a very different view of what “Bonapartism” would be than his cousin.



Probably similar to otl. Napoleon III actually dispatched him to negotiate an alliance with the South German states before the Franco Prussian War. These talks were proceeding quite well until his untimely death prevented anything solid from forming.



I mean maybe, but he would probably stick with the traditional naming conventions of the Bonapartes.

It would be interesting to see a more conservative empire and how does he find equilibrium between revolution and conservatism. I'm happy that he will have a role since it's a very intersting figure, being until today the only living descendant of the emperor.

 

[suburbanbeatnik]

@Basileus_Komnenos I love this thread so much, I actually subscribed to Alternate History! This is so enjoyable-- poor Franz got screwed over IRL, and it's nice to see a TL where he gets to do something. He had so much potential, and he was thrown away. It makes me so sad.

I've done artwork of Franz in the past-- a couple of sketches and the like. Would it be possible to share them? I don't know if this would be considered spam or not-- as a brand new user, I just want to be careful.

Thanks again for all the amazing content!!

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

It would be interesting to see a more conservative empire and how does he find equilibrium between revolution and conservatism.

I mean Napoleon I was a moderate Conservative by the standards of his day which was why he banned La Marseilles because of the more radical revolutionary, and Republican undertones some of its lyrics had. He and the Bourbon Restoration had this in common. Though Napoleon allowed this song to be played in a limited capacity as a symbol of French nationalism among the army.

Louis-Philippe was also a more moderate conservative (but he was a bit to the left of Napoleon), and his attempts to ally with the more Conservative groups in France were largely of little avail as they all hated him for overthrowing the "Legitimate King" Henri V.

'm happy that he will have a role since it's a very intersting figure, being until today the only living descendant of the emperor.

Well Napoleon II was Napoleon's only legitimate descendant. His lineage continues through some of his illegitimate children I think.

@Basileus_Komnenos I love this thread so much, I actually subscribed to Alternate History!

Oh wow I'm glad you like this TL so much!

This is so enjoyable-- poor Franz got screwed over IRL, and it's nice to see a TL where he gets to do something

Yup.

I've done artwork of Franz in the past-- a couple of sketches and the like. Would it be possible to share them? I don't know if this would be considered spam or not-- as a brand new user, I just want to be careful.

Oh yeah that's fine. If it fits in with the time period, it could be used to envision some of the later propaganda put out by the Napoleonic regime.

Thanks again for all the amazing content!!

Thanks for your readership and the comment! Part of the reason I like these tl's is because of the comments which allow for pretty insightful discussions and engagements with readers.

As for the next update, I'd say expect it around mid-late December. As final exams are coming up, I'll be a bit busy studying for that, so I'll have to pause some of the research I've been doing for my tl's.

Though if you are a fan of my other fics, I plan on updating them soon. As Bleach is coming back with a new key visual and trailer, I'm also thinking of writing a fic for it as well in the not too distant future.

 

[B_Munro]

I’m not quite so sure how this affects population growth since the US was quite egalitarian when it came to land ownership and that caused it to have massive amounts of growth.

If you don't mind my putting in my 2 cents, the situations aren't entirely comparable. Americans in the 18th and most of the 19th century had an expanding frontier and with it, ever-increasing amounts of useable land, very much not the case in France.

(And in spite of that, US birth rates declined throughout the 19th century, with a demographic transition actually _earlier_ than most European countries not counting France: https://eh.net/encyclopedia/fertility-and-mortality-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=America is no exception. In the early nineteenth,eighteenth or early nineteenth century at the latest. )

 

[suburbanbeatnik]

I mean Napoleon I was a moderate Conservative by the standards of his day which was why he banned La Marseilles because of the more radical revolutionary, and Republican undertones some of its lyrics had. He and the Bourbon Restoration had this in common. Though Napoleon allowed this song to be played in a limited capacity as a symbol of French nationalism among the army.

Louis-Philippe was also a more moderate conservative (but he was a bit to the left of Napoleon), and his attempts to ally with the more Conservative groups in France were largely of little avail as they all hated him for overthrowing the "Legitimate King" Henri V.


Well Napoleon II was Napoleon's only legitimate descendant. His lineage continues through some of his illegitimate children I think.


Oh wow I'm glad you like this TL so much!


Yup.


Oh yeah that's fine. If it fits in with the time period, it could be used to envision some of the later propaganda put out by the Napoleonic regime.


Thanks for your readership and the comment! Part of the reason I like these tl's is because of the comments which allow for pretty insightful discussions and engagements with readers.

As for the next update, I'd say expect it around mid-late December. As final exams are coming up, I'll be a bit busy studying for that, so I'll have to pause some of the research I've been doing for my tl's.

Though if you are a fan of my other fics, I plan on updating them soon. As Bleach is coming back with a new key visual and trailer, I'm also thinking of writing a fic for it as well in the not too distant future.

The conversations here have been really interesting. I feel like I am actually learning more about these people and the era, from all these different angles I haven't considered before.

I'm not sure how well the sketches I did of Franz fit in with Imperial propaganda-- I'm going for more of a melancholy Caspar David Friedrich vibe. Anyway here they are!

 

[Basileus_Basil I]

The conversations here have been really interesting. I feel like I am actually learning more about these people and the era, from all these different angles I haven't considered before.

I'm not sure how well the sketches I did of Franz fit in with Imperial propaganda-- I'm going for more of a melancholy Caspar David Friedrich vibe. Anyway here they are!

Our glorious emperor is mourning the death of our brave soldiers!!!
Or it could be respun as representing his gilded cage and how upset he was over not serving the French people.
A good propaganda machine can work with anything to make someone look good.
Just look at Stalin
It essentially rewrote history to make him look good.
That said censorship is likely going to be a huge part of TTL's second empire as Napoleon II is essentially a half Habsburg.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

The conversations here have been really interesting

Yeah that's part of what I like about AH. You learn new things almost every day.

I feel like I am actually learning more about these people and the era, from all these different angles I haven't considered before.

Yeah before I started reading more about the Habsburgs, I used to believe the narrative that the Austro-Hungarian Empire was a corpse of state, an anachronism of the 18th century that should died with it. Of course this view ignores the millions who died fighting for the Habsburgs and the Empire. With what I know, I can say that it was possible for them to ride it out through WW1 and through the 20th Century considering how Yugoslavia despite its many structural issues and ethnic managed to make it through a decade after Tito's died instead of immediately falling apart.

I'm not sure how well the sketches I did of Franz fit in with Imperial propaganda-- I'm going for more of a melancholy Caspar David Friedrich vibe. Anyway here they are!

I love them! I could see these be part of some unreleased sketches made available to the French public after his death. I could see them being used for memes if meme culture becomes a thing in this world.

I guess this could be after Emperor Franz passes away. Despite his issues with the Habsburgs, he was quite close to his grandfather who did allow him some leeway despite Metternich's objects.

I guess this could be Napoleon II escaping into Switzerland when he hears about the uprising against Charles X. I guess propagandists could make this out as an even similar to Constantine the Great's flight from Diocletian's court to join with his father Constantius Chlorus in Gaul.

- I'm going for more of a melancholy Caspar David Friedrich vibe. Anyway here they are!

These are amazing man! Do you have other sorts of historical sketches for this time period?

How long did it take you to draw these @suburbanbeatnik? Did you do this by hand or did you do this digitally?

A good propaganda machine can work with anything to make someone look good.

Yup.

Just look at Stalin
It essentially rewrote history to make him look good.

True.

That said censorship is likely going to be a huge part of TTL's second empire as Napoleon II is essentially a half Habsburg.

Yeah that's unfortunately true. The French portions of this tl are supposed to be the chronology from a pro-Bonapartist source, so it sort of skews things in a pro Napoleonic flavor.

​

 

[Harshavardhana]

memes if meme culture becomes a thing in this world.

Dude. Do not destroy the memes. It is what powers most of our souls nowadays .