Hadrian's Consolidation - reboot

[Hecatee]

Well, actually they had "credit cards" of a kind back then too. In a very limited fashion ofc.
But yeah, that would be a problem. Perhaps chips could be used instead of money

The winner still needs to leave with the money. "Letters of change" did exist, but only in the largest cities and only for the richests peoples : for most it would be coin, coin and coin again. So any lotery could only be a local initiative and even then... For instance if we look at a legionary, he had a daily income of some 10 to 15 as in the 1st century CE. Let's say the lotery asks for 1 as for a chance, and that a thousand people play. With the weight of the as being around 11 grams of copper, your 1000 players bring 11 kilos of metal to the table... But those 11 kilos are only worth 250 denarii.

 

[LoneWanderer23]

The winner still needs to leave with the money. "Letters of change" did exist, but only in the largest cities and only for the richests peoples : for most it would be coin, coin and coin again. So any lotery could only be a local initiative and even then... For instance if we look at a legionary, he had a daily income of some 10 to 15 as in the 1st century CE. Let's say the lotery asks for 1 as for a chance, and that a thousand people play. With the weight of the as being around 11 grams of copper, your 1000 players bring 11 kilos of metal to the table... But those 11 kilos are only worth 250 denarii.

Yeah, I guess. The only way to keep the coins and make it manageable would be to give arbitrary values to coins.

 

[Hecatee]

Due to a trip to the Limes africani I won't be able to do my usual updates or the rest of the month, please excuse my appologies. But that will be a good time for all the readers to pictch in and provide more imput to help me go further with this timeline.
The next updates should be about the revolt of Bar Kokbah, the economy of the north-african provinces, succession issues, peacekeeping issues.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Not as far as I know. Betting yes, but pure lotteries no

Actually wouldn't those "pick a 6 digit number" lotteries be perfectly fine with the general gist of Fortuna?

 

[Hecatee]

Actually wouldn't those "pick a 6 digit number" lotteries be perfectly fine with the general gist of Fortuna?

Could be. but six digits requires a lot of scratching with latin numerals

 

[Shogun]

Due to a trip to the Limes africani I won't be able to do my usual updates or the rest of the month, please excuse my appologies. But that will be a good time for all the readers to pictch in and provide more imput to help me go further with this timeline.
The next updates should be about the revolt of Bar Kokbah, the economy of the north-african provinces, succession issues, peacekeeping issues.

Are you back yet?

 

[Hecatee]

Hi everyone,

I'm indeed back after a fantastic trip to roman Algeria and Tunisia (pictures to be seen on https://www.flickr.com/photos/bryaxis/albums ) but I had no web when I came back due to a conflict with my ISP I've had a new line installed this week, so I hope I'll be able to get back to you with an update next monday

 

[Mike Louis]

@Hecatee Tough break with the ISP, hopefully that's gets sorted out soon. Getting back to the TL, I have a general outline for how the Bar Kokah revolt should go. You can have the local provincial governor (Legatus) be the typical political hack who provokes the revolt through the usual method of overtaxation and extortion (the money ostensibly going to the imperial treasury, in reality however the tax money instead ends up going to said governor's pockets). While the imperial government is responding to the revolt, another province say Dacia rises up in revolt. This second uprising diverts the legions' attention, thus giving Bar Kokah time to organize both his government and his military forces. While Hadrian himself is in route to Judea, he receives reports of the local governor's incompetence and corruption (provincial governors robbing the king / emperor of royal / imperial tax monies is always a huge no-no). I lean towards the revolt ending with the corrupt governor being held accountable for his actions which will also be the political cover needed for Hadrian to enact some needed provincial administration reforms.

 

[Hecatee]

@Hecatee Tough break with the ISP, hopefully that's gets sorted out soon. Getting back to the TL, I have a general outline for how the Bar Kokah revolt should go. You can have the local provincial governor (Legatus) be the typical political hack who provokes the revolt through the usual method of overtaxation and extortion (the money ostensibly going to the imperial treasury, in reality however the tax money instead ends up going to said governor's pockets). While the imperial government is responding to the revolt, another province say Dacia rises up in revolt. This second uprising diverts the legions' attention, thus giving Bar Kokah time to organize both his government and his military forces. While Hadrian himself is in route to Judea, he receives reports of the local governor's incompetence and corruption (provincial governors robbing the king / emperor of royal / imperial tax monies is always a huge no-no). I lean towards the revolt ending with the corrupt governor being held accountable for his actions which will also be the political cover needed for Hadrian to enact some needed provincial administration reforms.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yet here events are somewhat different because Hadrian has put a full population transfert program in place, with Jews deported to various corners of the Empire and barbarians ressetled in jewish lands, thus leading to earlier and stronger exactions by the rebels against both the settlers and the Romans : no need for corruption here, the powder's already in the keg and the fuse lighted. But the revolt will happen somewhat earlier, be more bloody but also more desorganized and in fact I do plan on having the rebellion end faster and with even harsher conditions sets on Jews. Mose's walk will be a garden walk in comparison with the great exodus...
As for the ISP, the old one keeps asking money and does not deliver any service but I took a new contract with another provider and am now set up and running, meaning I got access back to the online repository with Hadrian's Consolidation's original file

 

[Hecatee]

Modi’in, Iudea, March 129 CE



The bright red blood flowed slowly from the gaping throat wound of the barbarian, one of many who’d lost their life on this fateful day. Around him lay six corpses, that of his wife, two of his children and three of his assailants. Their short blades had been insufficient to protect them from the sword the man had hidden in his house. They’d hoped to surprise them all in their sleep, but had not planned for one of the kid to be sleeping on the ground in front of the door. His cry as the door opened had wakened his father and given him time to grab his weapon.

They’d been surprised by the weapon, he was not supposed to own one, and especially not a large piece of iron like the one now lying on the ground next to his corpse. They hoped not every barbarian was so well armed or so well trained in their use…

On a sign by their leader they left the house, one of them taking the deceased’s weapon. . Some would have liked to torch it, but it had been forbidden : not only would it give them an opportunity to strike elsewhere without anyone being on his or guard due to the smoke, but it would also allow a good jewish family to occupy the lodgings and till the attached land once Rome had been vanquished.

They knew other groups like theirs were active all over Iudea. The plan was for each to do as many damages as possible during three days before going to various assembly points where they would coalesce in larger units. To prevent any dispute about leadership they would be under the orders of pre-agreed leaders who had all gathered earlier and knew what the wider plans were.

But the overall plan did not matter for Benjamin bar Gourion, because this orgy of violence was his liberation and even the loss of his life would not change the fact that from now on he’d always be free from the Romans and their impious laws.

He was from a rather well of family of farmers and had not been impacted by the forced resettlement project initiated by the hateful emperor Hadrianus, but the simple fact Jews were forced from the Holy Land of Israël was enough to bring him into the rebellion. Using his own farm as a supply and meeting point, he’d been active in the movement for years now, inspired to act by the words of Shimon bar Koseva. And while he could have asked to become one of the leader, and indeed had been pressed by some friends to lead them, he did not want anything but a simple place as a footsoldier in the war that would see the hateful Romans thrown out of the region.

It was fitting that he fight in the area of Modi’in as the city at been where the Maccabees had started their own war against the king Antiochos some three hundred years before. Yes, the land of Modi’in was a land of the faithful and righteous and it was good and well that he steps, however modestly, in the traces left by those glorious ancients.

Benjamin took a stripe of cloth and cleansed his blade from the blood. It was an act he’d repeat numerous times in the days to come…

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Honestly you can't really blame him for having to kill children. The Romans sure weren't opposed to doing so and it really is one of the only ways to get Hadrian to stop shipping barbarians into places they're not welcome.

Though it would be funny if Barbarians sent to Israel ended up converting to Judaism and joining the jews in a revolt.

 

[Undeadmuffin]

Honestly you can't really blame him for having to kill children. The Romans sure weren't opposed to doing so and it really is one of the only ways to get Hadrian to stop shipping barbarians into places they're not welcome.

Though it would be funny if Barbarians sent to Israel ended up converting to Judaism and joining the jews in a revolt.

Certainly not with that kind of welcom comitee, I think it would make them more loyal to the roman empire

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Certainly not with that kind of welcom comitee, I think it would make them more loyal to the roman empire

Hmm, maybe Hadrian is secretly supporting these groups to make a permanent divide making them more hateful to each other than they are to the Romans.

Sounds like some European colonialism right there. Though the Jews will have the upper hand because you can only deport and import so many people before funding becomes a problem.

 

[Mike Louis]

Ironically for the Empire's own good, the Romans need to either lose (and deal with a hostile Israel in the aftermath) or be forced into major concessions (Have Israel be still part of the Empire in name, but revert back to the status of a client state with the ruler having the full authority of a provincial governor). Hadrian should've known better than to deport Dacian settlers (who already hate the Romans) to a province (Israel) that still has serious issues with the Roman authorities as a result of at least a century of mismanagement. To me this is the ancient version of moral hazard. To use the OTL Hank Paulson / Lehman Brothers analogy, unless the Romans experience firsthand the consequences of repeated provincial mismanagement (losing Israel and possibly Syria), Hadrian and the Senate won't prioritize reforming the provincial administration and rein in corrupt and or incompetent governors.

 

[Hecatee]

Ironically for the Empire's own good, the Romans need to either lose (and deal with a hostile Israel in the aftermath) or be forced into major concessions (Have Israel be still part of the Empire in name, but revert back to the status of a client state with the ruler having the full authority of a provincial governor). Hadrian should've known better than to deport Dacian settlers (who already hate the Romans) to a province (Israel) that still has serious issues with the Roman authorities as a result of at least a century of mismanagement. To me this is the ancient version of moral hazard. To use the OTL Hank Paulson / Lehman Brothers analogy, unless the Romans experience firsthand the consequences of repeated provincial mismanagement (losing Israel and possibly Syria), Hadrian and the Senate won't prioritize reforming the provincial administration and rein in corrupt and or incompetent governors.

I do not expect Hadrian to be very forgiving or willing to compromize. That was not how he treated the Jews OTL during the slightly later historical Bar Kokhba : indeed he went further and utterly crushed the Jews. According to Dion Cassius he had some 1000 villages destroyed and 600000 dead, not counting those dying of hunger.
Here I'm not sure yet of how I'll handle things. On one side the revolt happens earlier, and is thus somewhat less organized. On the other hand the level of ressentment is at least as high due to the Dacian and Brittons ressetlements program. So it's kind of a dice throw what'll happen. We'll see in two mondays where this will bring us (next monday should see us somewhere else in the Empire, I'm not sure where yet).

 

[Mike Louis]

I do not expect Hadrian to be very forgiving or willing to compromize. That was not how he treated the Jews OTL during the slightly later historical Bar Kokhba : indeed he went further and utterly crushed the Jews. According to Dion Cassius he had some 1000 villages destroyed and 600000 dead, not counting those dying of hunger.
Here I'm not sure yet of how I'll handle things. On one side the revolt happens earlier, and is thus somewhat less organized. On the other hand the level of ressentment is at least as high due to the Dacian and Brittons ressetlements program. So it's kind of a dice throw what'll happen. We'll see in two mondays where this will bring us (next monday should see us somewhere else in the Empire, I'm not sure where yet).

Hadrian might want to maintain a hardline position, however at the end of the day Roman military manpower isn't unlimited and he got only so many legions available to throw at TTL Bar Kokhba revolt. If as I suspect another provincial revolt happens either in Dacia or one the newly conquered provinces, Hadrian will have no choice but to modify his position and go with more of a carrot approach if the Empire happens to lose a couple of legions each in Israel and most likely Dacia since it would require at least a year or so to raise and properly train new legions. The Empire is already overextended as it is both militarily and administratively and losing experienced (and highly expensive) legions won't help matters when the real issues are the foolish resettlement policy (TTL Roman version of the bailout, only Hadrian is indirectly bailing out subpar provincial governors instead of insolvent banks), a subpar provincial administration structure (no separate career paths for civil and military provincial officials), and overburdened military with an inadequate command structure (too few legions for the overextended frontiers and no command layer between the legion commander in the provinces and the Emperor in Rome). Hadrian will need to have a Varus give me back my legions!!! moment in order to see reason and initiate the necessary military and provincial administration reforms.

 

[Hecatee]

Well in practice not all governors have a legion, and some governors command group of legions who have their own legatus each, so the administration is somewhat more complicated than what you describe. The military is indeed somewhat stretched, the need to raise new auxiliary units to keep Spain during the recent germanic war has shown it, but still OTL Hadrian was able to move 8 legions to crush Judea after he lost control of the province, so manpower is not yet really an issue.
The fact he anchored borders on better natural features and depopulated a good deal of the northern border area also gives him new opportunities to move around some of his manpower.
His main problem is cash and neither he nor anyone else sees it as an issue with how provinces are managed. In fact in the eye of Rome things are going rather well and Hadrian's tour of the Empire did allow him to personally check it for himself. So he'll put everything on the back of the Jews and deal with them accordingly...

 

[Hecatee]

Virunum, Norica, April 129 CE



Vulcanus had been so named by his owner Gaius Appius Soter, a greek smith living in the town of Virunum in Norica, a province to which the town was the capital.

Vulcanus had been captured during the Dacian war and been sold by the army to a slaver who’d brought his shipment of strong men down south, selling them to the highest bidders in the towns alongside the Danube and its affluents. The man had specialized in youth showing promising strength and Vulcanus had been one of his less interesting ware, explaining how he’d only been sold in Virunum at a point where the merchant almost despaired of selling him.

One of the reason of the late sale was also that Vulcanus was dumb to a point where some compared him openly with a cow. You could give him an order and he’d keep doing what he’d been told until told to stop, finishing the task or collapsing from fatigue, something that did not happen very often because he’d also grown far stronger than what his teenage body had suggested would be the case. He was thus a kind of stupid giant and Appius Soter was most happy to have bought such a good slave at such a low price.

His current task was to activate the fan that fed air into the melting oven of the smithy, a large brick affair covered in clay to help it reach higher temperature. Noric steel was reputed the best available in the empire and Appius Soter was one of the best smiths of Virunum, one of the best of the empire even if he dared say so.

Right now he’d gone out to have a cup of wine with a client and he’d left Vulcanus unattended, still elevating the level of air in the oven… The man did not stop when hot metal started to flow through a crack in the oven on the other side of the room, did not see the liquid steel fill a small empty ceramic amphora that someone had left against the wall of the oven, did not stop when the amphora was filled and metal started to spill alongside its flanks, did not notice how hot the oven had become…

It is only when his master came back and shouted at him, alarmed by the red tint of the oven, that the dimwit stopped. Appius Soter had started using a coal a few months ago on recommendation from a military veteran coming back home after serving with a legion in Britain and it seemed this combined with the continuous venting by the barbarian had overheated the oven…

Looking through the mouth of the oven he saw all the metal seemed to have disappeared, but he ten noticed the silvery amphora on the side and the metallic thread coming from a fault line alongside the oven. It had indeed overheated and broken the wall ! But the shine of the metal on the side was different from everything he’d ever seen…

Taking a pair of plyers and ordering Vulcanus to do the same, he took the amphora and brought it to the water basin in which he dropped it. The ceramic broke under the impact with the bottom of the basin and showed the iron core that had formed inside.

Pensive, the smith looked at how the metal had been molded. Maybe he could cast iron objects in the future ? Tests would be needed of course, from the look of things he would need to find a way for his oven to survive the higher temperature…

Making a sign to his slave, he took the plyers again and together they took the object from the basin before bringing it outside where he dropped it unceremoniously on the stones of the courtyard. To his surprise the object broke. This despite the fact it was metal ! It shattered like a kind of stone ! He’d need to look into this in more details…

 

[Sceonn]

Interesting, what did he come upon? I'm not knowledgeable in metallurgy.

 

[NthBelisarius]

I think he's discovered cast iron maybe? I was thinking pig iron, but a quick wiki-walk informed me that pig iron was already known around the Mediterranean at this time.