"God, why didn't you leave me on Bataan rather then having to put up with him?"
Eisenhower in the Pacific: Part 1 The Shoestring Warriors of Luzon
- Thread starter galveston bay
- Start date
Driftless
Donor
And Brooke might cut him some more slack in early days in Europe - or not... Ike did learn and improve from the encounters
Bataan and the harbor forts were also mutually supporting. Once Bataan fell, the Japanese army was able to bombard Corregidor. Abandoning Bataan means the Manila Bay defenses fall sooner and the Japanese can use Manila Bay quicker than in OTL.
did they use it for much, before 1944? one reads about singapore/linga roads, rabaul, truk etc. manila seems to rarely get mentioned.
They were available, just that they were in the Atlantic Ocean station at Norfolk Virginia on December 7, 1941. http://www.navsource.org/Naval/usf11.htm
USS Manley (APD-1) could make 30 knots and had 4 x 4 in guns.
USS Colhoun (APD-2) could make 35 knots and had 4 x4 in guns.
USS Gregory (APD-3) same as Colhoun.
USS Little (APD-4) same as Colhoun.
USS McKean (APD-5) same as Colhoun.
USS Stringham (APD-6) same as Colhoun.
So lets say this ships could leave Norfolk by the middle of December and race to the Panama Canal, problably by the 26 of December. Arrive at San Diego on the 3rd of January, 1942, pick up supplies for the Phillippines and head to Pearl Harbor for more supplys, arriving around 8th of Jan. From there head south towards Fremantle Australia which could arrive by the end of January. From there it depends on how @galveston bay do the events in the Java Sea and Malaysia.
There were I think a couple of submarines that had unusually large cargo capacity, and if the Surcouef were to avoid its strange demise that could also be used to ferry in supplies.
I would put it the other way around. If the US asks for Surcouf to provide supplies runs, it is likely to avoid its strange desmise.
would need to French to agree there and also it was always in the Atlantic. (that thing at night could piss the Japanese off a bit with its gun)
That is a long hard run for old 4 pipers, even fresh out of overhaul.. they would need at least 48 hours at San Diego, for maintenance and fueling before cargo loading, Then the run to long Pacific runs will be at a max cruising speed of probably 20 knots, plus 48 hour layovers at Pearl and Samoa, for maintenance and fuel, I see earliest arival as mid to late February at Sydney, before moving on to Fremantle or North, along Australia 's East Coast then North from there.
Indeed. FTL has it sending a few shells on Tokyo the night after a US bombing raid..... and leaving while the Japanese are scrambling their air defenses. And the IJA and IJN blaming each other.
It also has it night shelling an atoll where there are Japanese warships..... and torpedoing from ambush the first ships coming out of the pass looking for a cruiser
The problem is that even a specialized large cargo carrying submarine is going to be very limited in capacity. Submarines, fast destroyers, barges or anything like that cannot sustain a major effort. They can sustain small efforts or keep larger efforts on life support but ultimately it is a losing endeavor.
If FNFL are helping with supplies, Rubis could also be a good choice (it's a minelaying submarine)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Rubis_(1931)
edit: it carries 32 mines of 1150kg each in dedicated countainers, in addition to its torpedoe armament.
The Luzon Airlift and Navy blockade runners
Recovering from a heavy blow
The casualties suffered in American command echelons in the early days of the war in the Pacific were unexpected and a significant shock to the US Military as well as President Roosevelt. Hammer blows briefly shattered the American air and naval power in Hawaii and the Philippines.
For the Army it has fought battles that have lived up to it finest traditions as Eisenhower was able to move up and take over in the Philippines for the Army, while in Hawaii General Harmon and his subordinates fought a desperate battle against a powerful enemy as well as could be expected and indeed inflicted damage that had far more consequences for Japanese Carrier Aviation than anyone on the Allied side yet fully understands. A number of Army pilots are now heroes celebrated across the country which the Army eagerly takes advantage of in its recruiting efforts.
For the Navy however it has been a far more costly struggle and it lost its senior commanders for both the Asiatic and Pacific Fleet. Worse, it has lost 25 warships sunk, another 18 damaged and out of actions for months or even years, and suffered devastating personnel casualties. While it inflicted serious losses on the Japanese, sinking 14 Japanese warships of all types (along with 10 transport ships), and damaging another 20 of all types sufficiently to knock them out of the war for months at least, the US Navy is still been rocked hard by the opening battles of the war.
The first priority was Hawaii, and Chester Nimitz takes command on December 31, 1941. He has only one significant striking force, the two carriers of Task Force 16 (Spruance) and its escorts for all of December and into early January. The carrier Saratoga and its escorts are used to escort urgent convoys carrying new fight and bomber groups to Hawaii, as well as urgently needed specialists and material for the Pacific Fleet. The painful loss of the Saratoga to a Japanese submarine on January 24, which sends the crippled carrier to Bremerton Naval Yard for several months is a further blow and sets into motion a series of decisions that leads to the deployment of the carrier Wasp and Hornet to the Pacific, with both carriers leaving the Atlantic early February. Neither are yet battle ready however when they reach California, as both are awaiting the final formation of their air groups which will not be ready before April. This leaves only the carrier Ranger in the Atlantic until the first of the escort carriers can join the fleet and until the Essex, which is still almost a year away, reaches the fleet.
However the Navy is still willing to fight. The problem is finding what to fight with. The Japanese success in the Pacific, at least as far as the Axis know so far, helps Doenitz make his case to Hitler to send 12 Type IX U Boats to conduct Operation Drumbeat, and when the American carriers are sent to the Pacific they do so with their cruisers and a bare minimum of destroyers. The success of joint Army Navy cooperation in the Battle of Hawaii also results in the deployment of substantial Army and Navy aircraft to the Caribbean and Atlantic East Coast. The hard charging (and difficult) Admiral Ernie King is given command of the Caribbean, and he and Admiral Kimmel begin their long fight against the U-Boat threat which will consume their attention for the next 3 years. This results in the old battleships on the Atlantic Fleet remaining in port for much of the next year, due to shortages of escorts, and leaves few destroyers available for the Pacific after the initial flurry of reinforcements in December.
The strong defense of the Philippines by Eisenhower and his troops means that at least some effort must be made to send what supplies that can sent to his forces and evacuating some of the defenders whose knowledge and experience are highly valuable. In addition Australia must be defended, a priority that now ranks very high on the Allied war plan for sound military and political reasons. Admiral Nimitz sends newly promoted Vice Admiral Patrick Bellinger (whose command of the search forces is considered a major reason for the ability of American forces to fight as well as they did there) to take command of US Naval Forces South and Southwest Pacific and sends the newly arrived Patrol Wing 8 (and its 40 aircraft) with him. With him come orders straight from the office of the President to get Eisenhower out of Luzon and to Australia as the highest priority.
Meanwhile Lieutenant General George Brett (USAAF), serving as Deputy Commander of ABDA, Deputy Commander US Army Far East, and Commander US Forces Australia, has managed to continue irritate his British allies, and has added the Dutch and Australians to the list of allies who find his manner grating while his subordinates find him difficult to work for. However with Eisenhower still in Luzon he remains the man on the spot.
The Reinforcement of Australia
The first American forces reach Darwin in late December 1941, consisting of 4,000 USAAF and Philippine Army Air Force (PAAF) evacuated from Luzon who are organized into 5th Air Force Support Command, Australia under the initial command of Brigadier General Lawrence Churchill. Chennault arrives on January 5, and within days is in bitter arguments with General Brett. With him are most of the survivors of the combat groups of the USAFFE which are soon on their way back to the United States, along with the PAAF groups, to refit and to pass on their experience to the rest of the USAAF. The PAAF Groups will eventually form the basis of a fighter, light bomber and combat air cargo group which will return to the South Pacific in just over a year and include a large number of Filipino Americans from California and Hawaii.
The first reinforcements from the United States arrive with the Pensacola Convoy, with the 159th Infantry Regiment (California National Guard) and the 124th Field Artillery Regiment (Illinois National Guard with 24 105 mm guns) is sent forward to Darwin to wait for shipping. Brett meanwhile orders the 28th Engineer Regiment (aviation) to begin construction of airfields in the Townsville area, and initially holds the 72nd Artillery Regiment (24 105 guns) at Townsville as well before Eisenhower orders it to Darwin too in late January. The Americans find that the Australians have relatively weak aviation forces (18 aircraft) although 5 Australian AIF and Militia infantry battalions are present, along with a few batteries of artillery but only little anti-aircraft protection. Eisenhower is informed of the Australian weakness by Chennault and Rear Admiral Glassford (commander of what is left of the surface elements of the Asiatic Fleet) and he orders the proposed movement of the American infantry and field artillery canceled and assigns them to Brigadier General Clive Steele, Australian Army, who was supposed to go to Sumatra but with the assignment of American troops to Darwin is made commander of the joint American Australian garrison instead.
Vice Admiral Bellinger, arrives at Darwin after making stops at Fiji, Melbourne and Rabaul before reaching Darwin on January 11. He sends a report back to Nimitz urging the immediate reinforcement of Rabaul and the same is sent forward to Eisenhower. The Admiral, who was the 4th American naval aviator trained, was very impressed by the potential of Rabaul and Simpson Harbor particularly, and he feels that it would be a superb base and if reinforced could serve as the outer bastion that shields the entire South Pacific area. A series of messages from Nimitz to Washington leads to the rerouting of a the convoy transporting the 2nd Marine Brigade (General Larsen commanding) which is being escorted by Task Force 16 as well Eisenhower ordering an engineer regiment and fighter group en route to Australia being diverted there as well. The Australian Lark Force, a reinforced battalion of Australian AIF troops, is more than happy to see the arrival of this powerful reinforcement but not nearly as much as the RAAF squadron (consisting of 12 Wirraway 'fighters' ) already present. Additional reinforcements of the Patrol Wing 8 along with seaplane tenders Wright, Casco, Swan.
Air protection for Darwin arrives in late January 1942, consisting of the 35th Pursuit Group with 3 squadrons of P40E fighters, along with the air defense control center that had been meant for Luzon, as well as a regiment of anti-aircraft guns, another engineer regiment (general service), and several support units that had been planned for deployment to Luzon. More critical for continued efforts in the Philippines are the arrival of 2 squadrons of C47 transport aircraft, and several LB30 bombers are quickly converted into transports as well forming a provisional squadron with American and Australian crews. Admiral Bellinger also allocates 8 Catalina's to Far East Air Force transport command.
By January 16, all remaining C47, C39 and LB30 aircraft are permanently based at Darwin, where they fly daily flights to Cebu, where they are unloaded and their cargos are transferred to C45 and PBY aircraft for the flight to Bataan. This allows the delivery of 400 tons of vital spares, parts and other supplies a week and the evacuation of 350 stretcher cases and 400 other passengers a week from the Philippines to Australia.
The arrival of the large submarines Narwhal and Nautilus gives larger than average submarines for blockade running missions and Bellinger soon requests the Argonaut, Barracuda, Bass, and Bonita be converted for blockade running duty before they are transferred to the South Pacific. None of these boats reach the theater until June 1942. Another 8 former Asiatic Fleet submarines are also assigned this duty. The submarines carry supplies in, although only a few tons at a time, but carry out the most critical and important personnel, including the remaining senior officials of the Filipino government at Corregidor and numerous specialists including all of the code breaking staff and nurses by the end of the siege.
The casualties suffered in American command echelons in the early days of the war in the Pacific were unexpected and a significant shock to the US Military as well as President Roosevelt. Hammer blows briefly shattered the American air and naval power in Hawaii and the Philippines.
For the Army it has fought battles that have lived up to it finest traditions as Eisenhower was able to move up and take over in the Philippines for the Army, while in Hawaii General Harmon and his subordinates fought a desperate battle against a powerful enemy as well as could be expected and indeed inflicted damage that had far more consequences for Japanese Carrier Aviation than anyone on the Allied side yet fully understands. A number of Army pilots are now heroes celebrated across the country which the Army eagerly takes advantage of in its recruiting efforts.
For the Navy however it has been a far more costly struggle and it lost its senior commanders for both the Asiatic and Pacific Fleet. Worse, it has lost 25 warships sunk, another 18 damaged and out of actions for months or even years, and suffered devastating personnel casualties. While it inflicted serious losses on the Japanese, sinking 14 Japanese warships of all types (along with 10 transport ships), and damaging another 20 of all types sufficiently to knock them out of the war for months at least, the US Navy is still been rocked hard by the opening battles of the war.
The first priority was Hawaii, and Chester Nimitz takes command on December 31, 1941. He has only one significant striking force, the two carriers of Task Force 16 (Spruance) and its escorts for all of December and into early January. The carrier Saratoga and its escorts are used to escort urgent convoys carrying new fight and bomber groups to Hawaii, as well as urgently needed specialists and material for the Pacific Fleet. The painful loss of the Saratoga to a Japanese submarine on January 24, which sends the crippled carrier to Bremerton Naval Yard for several months is a further blow and sets into motion a series of decisions that leads to the deployment of the carrier Wasp and Hornet to the Pacific, with both carriers leaving the Atlantic early February. Neither are yet battle ready however when they reach California, as both are awaiting the final formation of their air groups which will not be ready before April. This leaves only the carrier Ranger in the Atlantic until the first of the escort carriers can join the fleet and until the Essex, which is still almost a year away, reaches the fleet.
However the Navy is still willing to fight. The problem is finding what to fight with. The Japanese success in the Pacific, at least as far as the Axis know so far, helps Doenitz make his case to Hitler to send 12 Type IX U Boats to conduct Operation Drumbeat, and when the American carriers are sent to the Pacific they do so with their cruisers and a bare minimum of destroyers. The success of joint Army Navy cooperation in the Battle of Hawaii also results in the deployment of substantial Army and Navy aircraft to the Caribbean and Atlantic East Coast. The hard charging (and difficult) Admiral Ernie King is given command of the Caribbean, and he and Admiral Kimmel begin their long fight against the U-Boat threat which will consume their attention for the next 3 years. This results in the old battleships on the Atlantic Fleet remaining in port for much of the next year, due to shortages of escorts, and leaves few destroyers available for the Pacific after the initial flurry of reinforcements in December.
The strong defense of the Philippines by Eisenhower and his troops means that at least some effort must be made to send what supplies that can sent to his forces and evacuating some of the defenders whose knowledge and experience are highly valuable. In addition Australia must be defended, a priority that now ranks very high on the Allied war plan for sound military and political reasons. Admiral Nimitz sends newly promoted Vice Admiral Patrick Bellinger (whose command of the search forces is considered a major reason for the ability of American forces to fight as well as they did there) to take command of US Naval Forces South and Southwest Pacific and sends the newly arrived Patrol Wing 8 (and its 40 aircraft) with him. With him come orders straight from the office of the President to get Eisenhower out of Luzon and to Australia as the highest priority.
Meanwhile Lieutenant General George Brett (USAAF), serving as Deputy Commander of ABDA, Deputy Commander US Army Far East, and Commander US Forces Australia, has managed to continue irritate his British allies, and has added the Dutch and Australians to the list of allies who find his manner grating while his subordinates find him difficult to work for. However with Eisenhower still in Luzon he remains the man on the spot.
The Reinforcement of Australia
The first American forces reach Darwin in late December 1941, consisting of 4,000 USAAF and Philippine Army Air Force (PAAF) evacuated from Luzon who are organized into 5th Air Force Support Command, Australia under the initial command of Brigadier General Lawrence Churchill. Chennault arrives on January 5, and within days is in bitter arguments with General Brett. With him are most of the survivors of the combat groups of the USAFFE which are soon on their way back to the United States, along with the PAAF groups, to refit and to pass on their experience to the rest of the USAAF. The PAAF Groups will eventually form the basis of a fighter, light bomber and combat air cargo group which will return to the South Pacific in just over a year and include a large number of Filipino Americans from California and Hawaii.
The first reinforcements from the United States arrive with the Pensacola Convoy, with the 159th Infantry Regiment (California National Guard) and the 124th Field Artillery Regiment (Illinois National Guard with 24 105 mm guns) is sent forward to Darwin to wait for shipping. Brett meanwhile orders the 28th Engineer Regiment (aviation) to begin construction of airfields in the Townsville area, and initially holds the 72nd Artillery Regiment (24 105 guns) at Townsville as well before Eisenhower orders it to Darwin too in late January. The Americans find that the Australians have relatively weak aviation forces (18 aircraft) although 5 Australian AIF and Militia infantry battalions are present, along with a few batteries of artillery but only little anti-aircraft protection. Eisenhower is informed of the Australian weakness by Chennault and Rear Admiral Glassford (commander of what is left of the surface elements of the Asiatic Fleet) and he orders the proposed movement of the American infantry and field artillery canceled and assigns them to Brigadier General Clive Steele, Australian Army, who was supposed to go to Sumatra but with the assignment of American troops to Darwin is made commander of the joint American Australian garrison instead.
Vice Admiral Bellinger, arrives at Darwin after making stops at Fiji, Melbourne and Rabaul before reaching Darwin on January 11. He sends a report back to Nimitz urging the immediate reinforcement of Rabaul and the same is sent forward to Eisenhower. The Admiral, who was the 4th American naval aviator trained, was very impressed by the potential of Rabaul and Simpson Harbor particularly, and he feels that it would be a superb base and if reinforced could serve as the outer bastion that shields the entire South Pacific area. A series of messages from Nimitz to Washington leads to the rerouting of a the convoy transporting the 2nd Marine Brigade (General Larsen commanding) which is being escorted by Task Force 16 as well Eisenhower ordering an engineer regiment and fighter group en route to Australia being diverted there as well. The Australian Lark Force, a reinforced battalion of Australian AIF troops, is more than happy to see the arrival of this powerful reinforcement but not nearly as much as the RAAF squadron (consisting of 12 Wirraway 'fighters' ) already present. Additional reinforcements of the Patrol Wing 8 along with seaplane tenders Wright, Casco, Swan.
Air protection for Darwin arrives in late January 1942, consisting of the 35th Pursuit Group with 3 squadrons of P40E fighters, along with the air defense control center that had been meant for Luzon, as well as a regiment of anti-aircraft guns, another engineer regiment (general service), and several support units that had been planned for deployment to Luzon. More critical for continued efforts in the Philippines are the arrival of 2 squadrons of C47 transport aircraft, and several LB30 bombers are quickly converted into transports as well forming a provisional squadron with American and Australian crews. Admiral Bellinger also allocates 8 Catalina's to Far East Air Force transport command.
By January 16, all remaining C47, C39 and LB30 aircraft are permanently based at Darwin, where they fly daily flights to Cebu, where they are unloaded and their cargos are transferred to C45 and PBY aircraft for the flight to Bataan. This allows the delivery of 400 tons of vital spares, parts and other supplies a week and the evacuation of 350 stretcher cases and 400 other passengers a week from the Philippines to Australia.
The arrival of the large submarines Narwhal and Nautilus gives larger than average submarines for blockade running missions and Bellinger soon requests the Argonaut, Barracuda, Bass, and Bonita be converted for blockade running duty before they are transferred to the South Pacific. None of these boats reach the theater until June 1942. Another 8 former Asiatic Fleet submarines are also assigned this duty. The submarines carry supplies in, although only a few tons at a time, but carry out the most critical and important personnel, including the remaining senior officials of the Filipino government at Corregidor and numerous specialists including all of the code breaking staff and nurses by the end of the siege.
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authors notes:
An air transport force would really have been helpful OTL. The priority for wounded are the seriously wounded Americans and Philippine Scouts while the Philippine Army personnel evacuated are transferred to other islands in the Philippines to recover as they can successfully blend in.
Brett was terrible at getting along with the British and Australians and a while Macarthur thought little of him Eisenhower would be even less impressed. His relief is a certainty
Additional air units and other reinforcements are en route, and are slated for the Defense of the Malay Barrier but first Eisenhower wants to secure Australia. As he is the main of the hour after First Bataan Washington is willing to let him have his way in that, something the Navy definitely agrees with as no one in authority in the Navy thinks the ABDA has a chance in hell of stopping the Japanese.
Note that the carrier raids have been delayed ... at this point March is the first likely available date
The impact of the reassignment of the Wasp will most definitely matter.....
The losses from the battles in the Hawaiian Islands as well as Wake Island and Albay Gulf are starting to add up for both sides.
An air transport force would really have been helpful OTL. The priority for wounded are the seriously wounded Americans and Philippine Scouts while the Philippine Army personnel evacuated are transferred to other islands in the Philippines to recover as they can successfully blend in.
Brett was terrible at getting along with the British and Australians and a while Macarthur thought little of him Eisenhower would be even less impressed. His relief is a certainty
Additional air units and other reinforcements are en route, and are slated for the Defense of the Malay Barrier but first Eisenhower wants to secure Australia. As he is the main of the hour after First Bataan Washington is willing to let him have his way in that, something the Navy definitely agrees with as no one in authority in the Navy thinks the ABDA has a chance in hell of stopping the Japanese.
Note that the carrier raids have been delayed ... at this point March is the first likely available date
The impact of the reassignment of the Wasp will most definitely matter.....
The losses from the battles in the Hawaiian Islands as well as Wake Island and Albay Gulf are starting to add up for both sides.
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