Driftless
Donor
If I recall correctly, Crown Prince Olav and Princess Martha made quite a positive impression on the White House and DC in general during their OTL visits. Here, the Crown Prince has even a better standing coming in the door.
Det som går ned må komme opp-An Alternate Royal Norwegian Navy TL
- Thread starter CV(N)-6
- Start date
Seems to me that the biggest need that Norway has is money...that should be fairly simple to arrange. And then you could loan them some old destroyers until they are able to replace their own...
Driftless
Donor
Yup.
Also, have Andrew Higgins make a field trip to Norway. He could help with with setting up some quick production works for replacement patrol boats - wood hulled or steel
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SwampTiger
Banned
I rather doubt the Norwegians need Higgins for advice on building wooden boats. They need engines, guns and torpedoes. Call Packard and the Swedes.
Possibly in the future, we’ll see. I’m not going to start something else while I’m writing this, because I don’t want to get bored with this in favor of another TL.
The Norwegians have a good small boat industry, they built 48 MTB’s in the thirties, and have the strengthened MAS design for the first forty and the design oddly reminiscent of a German S-Boat (intel refuses comment) to go off, and are building an improved version of the latter. They don’t really need help in the MTB area.
Driftless
Donor
To be sure, the Norwegians know what they need for boat design. I'm thinking more of the production line mentality for cranking out the boats in quick order. They could wind up as serious producer of those sized boats.
Higgins might also be interested in some of the Norwegian designs...
Chapter XLV
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Chapter XLV: A Visit to Washington
While Norway, aided by her Allies, fought off the German onslaught, the American people, some descended from the country, some anti-fascists, and some just following the war read their papers, keeping track of the situation. Some Americans journeyed to Norway to volunteer to fight, but many more implored the government to send the Norwegians aid. By the time action was taken, France had fallen and the Germans were reduced to their small foothold in the south. In August, the orders for engines and aircraft were placed by Norway. The action taken, however, was limited to giving the Norwegians a discount on the orders, which were soon backed up, the British and French orders taking priority. On 21 September, after hearing that the engines wouldn’t begin to be delivered until the spring of 1941, Crown Prince Olav and Prime Minister Nilsen sent President Roosevelt a telegram, asking that their orders be delivered on time, as Norway needed the aircraft to prevent Oslo becoming rubble like parts of London and other southern British cities. After some correspondence, on 30 September Roosevelt extended an invitation to the White House for November 17 to the two Norwegians, to allow the three to discuss the delivery of the engines and aircraft, as well as paying for future equipment.
The plan for the trip was to depart Liverpool with a convoy to Canada, from where the Norwegians would sail south. The next question was which ship would carry Nilsen, Olav, and their staffs. A British offer for a cruiser was turned down, as the Norwegians wished to take a Norwegian ship. Despite the comfort offered, taking a seagoing Norwegian merchantman was also declined, surprisingly. The only remaining option, therefore, was a Norwegian warship. Sleipner, the largest of the Norwegian destroyers, would take the delegation to the United States. Her No.3 gun was removed, and extra accommodations were built between the funnels for the passengers. The destroyer Aeger, with Per Askim of Battle of Navik fame in command, would escort Sleipner to America.
Steaming with a westbound convoy escorted very heavily by British forces, the Norwegians safely arrived at Halifax, the highlight of the crossing being Aeger sharing a U-Boat kill with a British destroyer while Sleipner watched sadly from the middle of the convoy, Commander Larsen not wanting to risk his ship with the important people aboard for a U-Boat to torpedo. After arriving at Halifax, the destroyers resupplied and headed south.
The visit to the White House went very well, and Roosevelt did what he could to get the Norwegians their orders, successfully, as you have seen. The visit also set the stage for the beginnings of Lend-Lease, which began in February of 1941, as well as bringing US-Norway relations even closer. Roosevelt also offered the Army some old equipment from the Great War at scrap value, which was gladly purchased.
While the White House visit was going on, several Norwegians who had participated in the battles were interviewed by American radio and newspaper services. The heroics of the Norwegians, told first hand instead of by reporters, hit home in the United States, making Norway, even more favorable to the American public, not to mention increasing regard for the Allies.
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Chapter XLV: A Visit to Washington
While Norway, aided by her Allies, fought off the German onslaught, the American people, some descended from the country, some anti-fascists, and some just following the war read their papers, keeping track of the situation. Some Americans journeyed to Norway to volunteer to fight, but many more implored the government to send the Norwegians aid. By the time action was taken, France had fallen and the Germans were reduced to their small foothold in the south. In August, the orders for engines and aircraft were placed by Norway. The action taken, however, was limited to giving the Norwegians a discount on the orders, which were soon backed up, the British and French orders taking priority. On 21 September, after hearing that the engines wouldn’t begin to be delivered until the spring of 1941, Crown Prince Olav and Prime Minister Nilsen sent President Roosevelt a telegram, asking that their orders be delivered on time, as Norway needed the aircraft to prevent Oslo becoming rubble like parts of London and other southern British cities. After some correspondence, on 30 September Roosevelt extended an invitation to the White House for November 17 to the two Norwegians, to allow the three to discuss the delivery of the engines and aircraft, as well as paying for future equipment.
The plan for the trip was to depart Liverpool with a convoy to Canada, from where the Norwegians would sail south. The next question was which ship would carry Nilsen, Olav, and their staffs. A British offer for a cruiser was turned down, as the Norwegians wished to take a Norwegian ship. Despite the comfort offered, taking a seagoing Norwegian merchantman was also declined, surprisingly. The only remaining option, therefore, was a Norwegian warship. Sleipner, the largest of the Norwegian destroyers, would take the delegation to the United States. Her No.3 gun was removed, and extra accommodations were built between the funnels for the passengers. The destroyer Aeger, with Per Askim of Battle of Navik fame in command, would escort Sleipner to America.
Steaming with a westbound convoy escorted very heavily by British forces, the Norwegians safely arrived at Halifax, the highlight of the crossing being Aeger sharing a U-Boat kill with a British destroyer while Sleipner watched sadly from the middle of the convoy, Commander Larsen not wanting to risk his ship with the important people aboard for a U-Boat to torpedo. After arriving at Halifax, the destroyers resupplied and headed south.
The visit to the White House went very well, and Roosevelt did what he could to get the Norwegians their orders, successfully, as you have seen. The visit also set the stage for the beginnings of Lend-Lease, which began in February of 1941, as well as bringing US-Norway relations even closer. Roosevelt also offered the Army some old equipment from the Great War at scrap value, which was gladly purchased.
While the White House visit was going on, several Norwegians who had participated in the battles were interviewed by American radio and newspaper services. The heroics of the Norwegians, told first hand instead of by reporters, hit home in the United States, making Norway, even more favorable to the American public, not to mention increasing regard for the Allies.
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So Lend-Lease begins a month earlier than OTL...wonder what kinds of equipment were sold? and I'd bet that Lindbergh and Nye were very quiet on the issue...
Driftless
Donor
Good point. Lindberg's political leanings and his visit to Germany convinced him that the Nazi's were near invincible. Here, that invincibility myth has some big dents in it. Lindberg might not be so sure of his first opinions now.
Senator Nye might be getting more of an earful from his Norwegian heritage constituents out on the prairie, so his fire-breathing may be tempered somewhat
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next question is does Lindbergh go to Norway as an observer? This would be a major butterfly, taking him out of the country and a lot of air out of the America First movement...
Hopefully the Americans will open up the floodgates somewhat to the Norwegians, they definitely need the support.
Hey guys, I just realized how long it’s been since I updated, I’m pretty busy right now but am trying to still do some writing. I have enough time to write that I won’t put this on hold, but this TL will be limited to 1-2 updates a week. Thanks for hanging in there, I’ll have the next update ready sometime tomorrow.
CV(N)-6
CV(N)-6
Considering the number of Norwegians who settled in Minnesota and the Dakotas (where OTL there was a lot of pacifist sentiment) and you're talking about a country minding their own business that got invaded...then what they're asking for isn't exactly going to break the bank...
Take your time, I would much rather have a slowly updated but quality timeline instead of a rush job scheduled timeline!
Chapter XLVI
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Chapter XLVI: Destroyers for Fish
One thing not mentioned when many people discuss Nilsen, Olav, and Martha’s visit to the White House took place during the correspondence of Olav and Nilsen with Roosevelt. On 17 September 1940, the well-known Destroyers for Bases Agreement took place, transferring 50 old US Navy Four-Pipers to the Royal Navy and Marine National to help deal with the U-Boat threat, which was growing after being delayed a month by Hitler’s questionable decision-making and poised to strike Allied shipping from occupied France. However, this wasn’t the only transaction featuring old American destroyers that day. In exchange for some dried and salted cod, the Wickes class destroyers Buchanan and Aaron Ward were transferred to the Royal Norwegian Navy, arriving at Bergen on 16 October. The destroyers’ low price, even when compared with the basing rights received from the British and French, was due to several Midwestern congressmen, pressured by the people they represented, many of Norwegian descent, convincing the government to give the Norwegians the deal as compensation for the delayed aircraft orders.
Upon arrival, the new destroyers were renamed Svalbard and Jan Mayen, respectively. Unlike their Anglo-French sisters, which were optimized for anti-submarine warfare, the two vessels were expected to be put in places where they might have to fight surface actions, and were thus refitted to add anti aircraft and submarine weapons while retaining as much ability to fight other destroyers as possible. The two aft torpedo banks were landed, and an old 7.6cm gun off an ancient coast defense ship long scrapped was shipped in a high angle mount, while a 4cm Bofors replaced the fore short barrel 7.6cm AA gun. A pair of 2cm Oerlikons were also added. The freed up weight allowed extra depth charges to be shipped.
Svalbard and Jan Mayen were used mainly for convoy escort along the coasts when they recommissioned in late December, freeing up the quartet of modern Norwegian vessels for more dangerous missions, such as bombarding the handful of positions the Germans still occupied at night and escorting convoys to Oslo. The two four-pipers also regularly escorted the Narvik-UK iron ore convoys or patrolled the northern North Sea for U-Boats with the help of long range aircraft regardless of the weather, to their crews’ annoyance. When Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June, all six Norwegian ships made up the bulk of the escort for the first Lend-Lease convoy to Murmansk in late August 1941.
When the ships were first looked over, and the officers doing the inspections got over their fits of laughter at the AA armament, a kindly worded letter was sent to the Americans, telling them that their light AA sucked. After the British and French concurred, the Americans began re-equipping their vessels with license-built Oerlikons and purchasing the license for the Bofors 4cm, increasing their AA abilities in the Pacific War. World War Two was just out of the opening stages.
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Chapter XLVI: Destroyers for Fish
One thing not mentioned when many people discuss Nilsen, Olav, and Martha’s visit to the White House took place during the correspondence of Olav and Nilsen with Roosevelt. On 17 September 1940, the well-known Destroyers for Bases Agreement took place, transferring 50 old US Navy Four-Pipers to the Royal Navy and Marine National to help deal with the U-Boat threat, which was growing after being delayed a month by Hitler’s questionable decision-making and poised to strike Allied shipping from occupied France. However, this wasn’t the only transaction featuring old American destroyers that day. In exchange for some dried and salted cod, the Wickes class destroyers Buchanan and Aaron Ward were transferred to the Royal Norwegian Navy, arriving at Bergen on 16 October. The destroyers’ low price, even when compared with the basing rights received from the British and French, was due to several Midwestern congressmen, pressured by the people they represented, many of Norwegian descent, convincing the government to give the Norwegians the deal as compensation for the delayed aircraft orders.
Upon arrival, the new destroyers were renamed Svalbard and Jan Mayen, respectively. Unlike their Anglo-French sisters, which were optimized for anti-submarine warfare, the two vessels were expected to be put in places where they might have to fight surface actions, and were thus refitted to add anti aircraft and submarine weapons while retaining as much ability to fight other destroyers as possible. The two aft torpedo banks were landed, and an old 7.6cm gun off an ancient coast defense ship long scrapped was shipped in a high angle mount, while a 4cm Bofors replaced the fore short barrel 7.6cm AA gun. A pair of 2cm Oerlikons were also added. The freed up weight allowed extra depth charges to be shipped.
Svalbard and Jan Mayen were used mainly for convoy escort along the coasts when they recommissioned in late December, freeing up the quartet of modern Norwegian vessels for more dangerous missions, such as bombarding the handful of positions the Germans still occupied at night and escorting convoys to Oslo. The two four-pipers also regularly escorted the Narvik-UK iron ore convoys or patrolled the northern North Sea for U-Boats with the help of long range aircraft regardless of the weather, to their crews’ annoyance. When Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June, all six Norwegian ships made up the bulk of the escort for the first Lend-Lease convoy to Murmansk in late August 1941.
When the ships were first looked over, and the officers doing the inspections got over their fits of laughter at the AA armament, a kindly worded letter was sent to the Americans, telling them that their light AA sucked. After the British and French concurred, the Americans began re-equipping their vessels with license-built Oerlikons and purchasing the license for the Bofors 4cm, increasing their AA abilities in the Pacific War. World War Two was just out of the opening stages.
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