It's more of individual cities with defenses than a fortified line, but yes a nightime naval invasion is possible, though support in the daytime of the landing will be harder without air cover. I'm not sure on building a nearby airfield in secrecy, but it's an idea.
Are the Germans contained in the pocket behind the Kristiansand-Arendal line? That's close enough for a naval invasion to be launched and landed while the sun is down, and if the Allies can get a secret airbase built up somewhere it's going to be easier for them to support any attack.
Det som går ned må komme opp-An Alternate Royal Norwegian Navy TL
- Thread starter CV(N)-6
- Start date
Chapter XLIII
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter XLIII: What Happened in France
On 10 May, German forces invaded the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg. The Belgian fortress of Eben-Emael was quickly taken by airborne soldiers, allowing the Germans to advance through Belgium much faster than the Allies had planned, forcing them to rush to their planned defensive line. In the Netherlands, however, things were different. An airborne attack on The Hague was defeated by Dutch troops using armored cars and machine guns. An attempt by a dozen seaplanes to land two platoons of men in central Rotterdam to capture the Willemsbrug bridge was encountered a setback when an enterprising G.I attacked their formation, shooting down one He 59 and damaging another, but most importantly, not allowing the seaplanes to land together. Just four landed in the planned area near the bridge, the others setting down where they could to get away from the fighter, with several others approaching.
Attacks on Dutch bridges were mainly defeated, and the bridges blown up. Much of the Dutch Army successfully retreated to Fortress Holland. Though some of the Dutch forces had been tasked with defeating the remaining paratroopers, of which there probably would’ve been more had the Germans not lost as many men and aircraft in Norway, most were concentrated against the attacking Germans, allowing them to hold out a few days longer than would have been the case if more men were occupied mopping up paratroopers. The need to bust open Fortress Holland diverted a number of bombers from the bombing raid on Rotterdam, which didn’t level the city as planned, mainly due to the smaller numbers. The diversion of German forces from northern Belgium to help the Dutch also allowed the Anglo-French forces to solidify their positions. The Ardennes Offensive successfully caught the Allies by surprise, reaching the channel on 20 May. An attempt to hold Calais was unsuccessful, the last units surrendering on 27 May, but bought the Allies time to reach Dunkirk, where, with much of the Luftwaffe still blasting the Dutch and a substantial number of RAF fighters overhead, large ships came right up to the pier, allowing a fair amount of equipment to be evacuated successfully, along with some 350,000 men, before Dunkirk fell on 5 June. German efforts to use S-Boats to mine and torpedo Allied ships found the attempt difficult due to some seven S-Boats having been lost in Norway, weakening their numerical strength.
Fall Rot, the second stage of the Battle of France, featured the Germans, the larger in number, fighting the French, who were on much shorter lines of supply, beginning on 7 June. Some 120,000 French were repatriated to increase the Allied strength, and the Germans found determined resistance in the French, who were defending the Weygand Line. After several days of fighting, the line was broken on 10 June, with the Germans rushing to exploit their advantage. Paris was declared an open city, and Allied forces began to collapse. In Operation Cycle, some 18,000 men, mostly British, were evacuated from northern ports, while some 191,000 men were withdrawn in Operation Ariel.
The Germans mopped up the Maginot Line fairly quickly, and struck into France. At this time, the French government was faced with the dilemma of whether to surrender and save much of the country or to retreat to the colonies and risk the mainland and people’s suffering at the hands of the Germans. In the end, Reynaud, buoyed by the successes in Norway, sacked Maxime Weygand on 13 June for urging an armistice, and chose to fight on, joined by a majority of the government, the same day the Italians entered the war on the side of Germany, invading France from the Alps. Reynaud flew to North Africa with the factions of the government who wanted to fight on 18 June as the Germans began to strike south. The Marine National was ordered to sail to British or African ports, and bring launched ships with, while destroying those that hadn’t been launched. The Armée de l'air frantically evacuated aircraft from France, while what remained of the once proud Army fought a delaying action in first central, then southern France, being pushed back at a fair pace by the Germans, who routed them by the end of June. While a couple of coastal enclaves held through July, most of France fell before the 10th of the month. Only about 100,000 men were evacuated from southern France, though a fair amount of equipment made the trip. The Armée de l'air evacuated some 1,500 aircraft from the country, while equipment to build and maintain the machines was loaded aboard ships bound for Algeria. In the end, the Allies suffered some 375,000 dead or wounded, while the Germans lost some 180,000 casualties. A sizable portion of the Allied land forces in France was evacuated, while substantial numbers of aircraft and ships escaped to fight another day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter XLIII: What Happened in France
On 10 May, German forces invaded the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg. The Belgian fortress of Eben-Emael was quickly taken by airborne soldiers, allowing the Germans to advance through Belgium much faster than the Allies had planned, forcing them to rush to their planned defensive line. In the Netherlands, however, things were different. An airborne attack on The Hague was defeated by Dutch troops using armored cars and machine guns. An attempt by a dozen seaplanes to land two platoons of men in central Rotterdam to capture the Willemsbrug bridge was encountered a setback when an enterprising G.I attacked their formation, shooting down one He 59 and damaging another, but most importantly, not allowing the seaplanes to land together. Just four landed in the planned area near the bridge, the others setting down where they could to get away from the fighter, with several others approaching.
Attacks on Dutch bridges were mainly defeated, and the bridges blown up. Much of the Dutch Army successfully retreated to Fortress Holland. Though some of the Dutch forces had been tasked with defeating the remaining paratroopers, of which there probably would’ve been more had the Germans not lost as many men and aircraft in Norway, most were concentrated against the attacking Germans, allowing them to hold out a few days longer than would have been the case if more men were occupied mopping up paratroopers. The need to bust open Fortress Holland diverted a number of bombers from the bombing raid on Rotterdam, which didn’t level the city as planned, mainly due to the smaller numbers. The diversion of German forces from northern Belgium to help the Dutch also allowed the Anglo-French forces to solidify their positions. The Ardennes Offensive successfully caught the Allies by surprise, reaching the channel on 20 May. An attempt to hold Calais was unsuccessful, the last units surrendering on 27 May, but bought the Allies time to reach Dunkirk, where, with much of the Luftwaffe still blasting the Dutch and a substantial number of RAF fighters overhead, large ships came right up to the pier, allowing a fair amount of equipment to be evacuated successfully, along with some 350,000 men, before Dunkirk fell on 5 June. German efforts to use S-Boats to mine and torpedo Allied ships found the attempt difficult due to some seven S-Boats having been lost in Norway, weakening their numerical strength.
Fall Rot, the second stage of the Battle of France, featured the Germans, the larger in number, fighting the French, who were on much shorter lines of supply, beginning on 7 June. Some 120,000 French were repatriated to increase the Allied strength, and the Germans found determined resistance in the French, who were defending the Weygand Line. After several days of fighting, the line was broken on 10 June, with the Germans rushing to exploit their advantage. Paris was declared an open city, and Allied forces began to collapse. In Operation Cycle, some 18,000 men, mostly British, were evacuated from northern ports, while some 191,000 men were withdrawn in Operation Ariel.
The Germans mopped up the Maginot Line fairly quickly, and struck into France. At this time, the French government was faced with the dilemma of whether to surrender and save much of the country or to retreat to the colonies and risk the mainland and people’s suffering at the hands of the Germans. In the end, Reynaud, buoyed by the successes in Norway, sacked Maxime Weygand on 13 June for urging an armistice, and chose to fight on, joined by a majority of the government, the same day the Italians entered the war on the side of Germany, invading France from the Alps. Reynaud flew to North Africa with the factions of the government who wanted to fight on 18 June as the Germans began to strike south. The Marine National was ordered to sail to British or African ports, and bring launched ships with, while destroying those that hadn’t been launched. The Armée de l'air frantically evacuated aircraft from France, while what remained of the once proud Army fought a delaying action in first central, then southern France, being pushed back at a fair pace by the Germans, who routed them by the end of June. While a couple of coastal enclaves held through July, most of France fell before the 10th of the month. Only about 100,000 men were evacuated from southern France, though a fair amount of equipment made the trip. The Armée de l'air evacuated some 1,500 aircraft from the country, while equipment to build and maintain the machines was loaded aboard ships bound for Algeria. In the end, the Allies suffered some 375,000 dead or wounded, while the Germans lost some 180,000 casualties. A sizable portion of the Allied land forces in France was evacuated, while substantial numbers of aircraft and ships escaped to fight another day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited:
Did Italy declare war on France and join Germany? I didn't read anything about them joining in on the action by invading their border with France.
Yes, they did on 13 June, 3 days later than OTL, which I seem to have forgotten to put in my post (I should proofread better). I fixed it.
Thats 1500 airplane that was not evacuated OTL. The allies are not as bad of after the fall of France as OTL.
This means the the Armée de l'Air can handle CAS and air superiority in North Africa against the Italians and Germans, meaning that the RAF can concentrate on the Battle of Britain. Moreover, they can keep more units for the Home Fleet or the Far East, while France will be able to hold off Italy while assisting with Japan when it comes by. The lack of French neutrality means that Japan will not be able to capture as many SEA airfields as it originally wanted to, meaning that they'll have to send their damaged CVs there right after Pearl Harbor to try to salvage the disaster.
Back of the envelope, the Allied Mediterranean Forces are being significantly reinforced:
1) Several French garrison divisions in Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco.
2) A French expeditionary corps in Syria/Lebanon
3) 1500 fairly modern aircraft with combat experienced pilots and ground crews
4) The French Fleet (add-ons to what flew the Free French flag after Catapult)
- 1 modern battleship
- 2 modern battlecruisers
- 3 additional old battleships (R-class equivilents)
- ~10 additional modern cruisers
- ~30 destroyers and torpedo boats
French and British submarines can flood the approaches to Tripoli and Benghazi even as French and British cruiser/destroyer forces can run amok sinking Italian logistic ships while under at worse contested skies. Italian logistics in North Africa go from haphazard to horrendous very quickly.
And once that happens, the Germans aren't moving an armoured corps to Libya (which has direct and indirect effects on Barborossa as a lot more trucks and oil is available) and the RN is not sticking is dick into a meat grinder to supply Malta and defend Crete. Big forces are available by mid-1941 to flow East.
Driftless
Donor
Also, If the French, Polish, and Belgian gold reserves got shipped as OTL, the (only recognized)French Government will have full and immediate access to all of their gold reserves. Historically, there were 1100 TONS of French gold move to Dakar, that was tied up by Vichy. That was pretty close to half of their gold. That gold can help buy a lot of replacement gear.
Secondary effects --- Maritime patrol aircraft stationed in Morocco and Dakar as well as local escort groups based in French North African Atlantic ports makes the African convoys far better protected against U-boats far earlier TTL compared to OTL. Esp. once we factor in the change in u-boat deployment patterns due to Norway being Allied and free. Convoy throughput will be higher and losses far lower. Esp. as the ships supplying North Africa that sail from the UK or the Western Hemisphere won't be returning in ballast but will be carrying at least iron ore and other bulk goods. That simplifies the British dollar rationing scheme a bit.
SwampTiger
Banned
The AdA screwed up royally at this time. They began ferrying their best aircraft to NA too early, demonstrated poor sortie rates and failed to rationalize production sufficiently. Many of the pilots sent south were not combat veterans. On the other hand, assembly facilities were stood up for Martin, Douglas and Curtiss aircraft. The Desert Air Force
will receive far fewer Hawks in this scenario. The AdA will undergo a massive overhaul during June and July 1940.
will receive far fewer Hawks in this scenario. The AdA will undergo a massive overhaul during June and July 1940.
Very interested to see a bit of the world outside of the Norway campaign however I completely understand why you are doing so, still going very well though. Keep it up!
I'm sorry to hear that. As someone with thick fingers, typing on a smartphone is something I avoid whenever possible. Maybe you can ask the manufacturer to rent out a replacement device during RMA?
Bugger that's most unfortunate. I hope you can get it fixed or a get a replacement for a reasonable price
Chapter XLIV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter XLIV: Replacements
June-July 1940
Even though the Germans had now been reduced to holding a strip of coast between Kristiansand and Arendal, it had come at a great cost to both Norwegian armed services. For the Navy, losses amounted to two destroyers, four submarines, five minelayers, six sub-chasers, 29 MTB’s, and four minesweepers, a very significant portion of its ships. The Naval Air Service, which began the war with eight squadrons of twelve N-3PB’s, was down to 51 aircraft. The Army Air Service, beginning with two dozen D.XXI’s, and four squadrons each of Gladiators and Hs 123’s, was down to a small squadron of D.XXI’s and a pair of overstrength 123 squadrons, while the Gladiator strength was near prewar levels, the British supplying replacements. The Army, meanwhile, had lost some equipment in the fighting, but was up from its prewar total strength of 81,000 to just over 100,000 men, though not all were equipped with frontline weapons.
Norway wasn’t a wealthy country in 1940, and fighting a potentially very long war would be a drain on her resources. Domestically, Norway could design and build up to destroyers and submarines, though only torpedoes and machine guns could be sourced from the country. Norway also possessed a small arms industry that could equip the expanding Army if given funding. Aircraft-wise, the Navy’s flying boat factory in Horten, once repaired, could join the Army’s aircraft factory, located in Kjeller, in building aircraft, though not in great numbers. The existing industry for designing aircraft was limited to obsolete biplanes, but could be helped by their counterparts from a more advanced manufacturer.
Using these industries, the Norwegians began a modest program to replace losses and make any future German offensives impossible. Wrecked coastal guns were repaired, as was Sola. The shipyards and seaplane factory in Oslofjord, somewhat sabotaged by the Germans during the offensive in May, were repaired. The industries for producing aircraft, ships, and small arms were given large amounts of funding to increase their capabilities. The Navy ordered two dozen MTB’s, improved versions of those built just before the war, and began planning for new destroyers and submarines. The Army began a program to equip every man with modern equipment by 1941.
The air services, meanwhile, had a break of luck. The delayed defeat of the Dutch allowed a number of Fokker engineers to flee to England with plans for aircraft and engines. In early August, the engineers were sent to Norway to help the Norwegians produce more D.XXI fighters to defend against a potential German attempt to bomb the nation into surrender as was happening (unsuccessfully) in Britain. The performance of the D.XXI with the American engine had been very favorable, and the Norwegians ordered four dozen Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engines from the United States. Meanwhile, the Fokker employees assisted the Norwegians with preparing to build the aircraft from scratch, rather than from crates. The Fokker engineers, using feedback from Dutch and Norwegian pilots, also proposed an updated design similar to the D.XXI-1, of which just three had been built, all for Denmark. The design replaced two of the .303-inch Vickers machine guns with Hispano-Suiza 20 millimeter cannons, giving the D.XXI-5, as the new variant was known, a much needed firepower upgrade. Though delayed by British and French orders, the engines began to arrive in numbers by November, with the last one delivered in January of 1941, their progress no doubt sped up by Prime Minister Nilsen and Crown Prince Olav’s visit to Washington D.C. in early November. The 48 D.XXI’s, all completed by late January, were joined by 24 N-3PB’s shipped to Norway in crates from Northrop.
Historians have criticized the Norwegians for not building British aircraft during this time period, and with hindsight, it seems the smart thing to do logistically. However, one mustn't forget that the British were using virtually all available aircraft facilities for their own use in 1940, what with the Blitz and campaigns against Libya and Ethiopia. Even engines could hardly be spared to send to Norway, where they could be paired with Norwegian-built bodies. Thus, the Norwegians built the aircraft they had built prewar, using American engines, and American and Dutch designs. These aircraft served the Norwegians well during the war, and were certainly no worse than a Hurricane, as well as cheaper than a Spitfire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter XLIV: Replacements
June-July 1940
Even though the Germans had now been reduced to holding a strip of coast between Kristiansand and Arendal, it had come at a great cost to both Norwegian armed services. For the Navy, losses amounted to two destroyers, four submarines, five minelayers, six sub-chasers, 29 MTB’s, and four minesweepers, a very significant portion of its ships. The Naval Air Service, which began the war with eight squadrons of twelve N-3PB’s, was down to 51 aircraft. The Army Air Service, beginning with two dozen D.XXI’s, and four squadrons each of Gladiators and Hs 123’s, was down to a small squadron of D.XXI’s and a pair of overstrength 123 squadrons, while the Gladiator strength was near prewar levels, the British supplying replacements. The Army, meanwhile, had lost some equipment in the fighting, but was up from its prewar total strength of 81,000 to just over 100,000 men, though not all were equipped with frontline weapons.
Norway wasn’t a wealthy country in 1940, and fighting a potentially very long war would be a drain on her resources. Domestically, Norway could design and build up to destroyers and submarines, though only torpedoes and machine guns could be sourced from the country. Norway also possessed a small arms industry that could equip the expanding Army if given funding. Aircraft-wise, the Navy’s flying boat factory in Horten, once repaired, could join the Army’s aircraft factory, located in Kjeller, in building aircraft, though not in great numbers. The existing industry for designing aircraft was limited to obsolete biplanes, but could be helped by their counterparts from a more advanced manufacturer.
Using these industries, the Norwegians began a modest program to replace losses and make any future German offensives impossible. Wrecked coastal guns were repaired, as was Sola. The shipyards and seaplane factory in Oslofjord, somewhat sabotaged by the Germans during the offensive in May, were repaired. The industries for producing aircraft, ships, and small arms were given large amounts of funding to increase their capabilities. The Navy ordered two dozen MTB’s, improved versions of those built just before the war, and began planning for new destroyers and submarines. The Army began a program to equip every man with modern equipment by 1941.
The air services, meanwhile, had a break of luck. The delayed defeat of the Dutch allowed a number of Fokker engineers to flee to England with plans for aircraft and engines. In early August, the engineers were sent to Norway to help the Norwegians produce more D.XXI fighters to defend against a potential German attempt to bomb the nation into surrender as was happening (unsuccessfully) in Britain. The performance of the D.XXI with the American engine had been very favorable, and the Norwegians ordered four dozen Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engines from the United States. Meanwhile, the Fokker employees assisted the Norwegians with preparing to build the aircraft from scratch, rather than from crates. The Fokker engineers, using feedback from Dutch and Norwegian pilots, also proposed an updated design similar to the D.XXI-1, of which just three had been built, all for Denmark. The design replaced two of the .303-inch Vickers machine guns with Hispano-Suiza 20 millimeter cannons, giving the D.XXI-5, as the new variant was known, a much needed firepower upgrade. Though delayed by British and French orders, the engines began to arrive in numbers by November, with the last one delivered in January of 1941, their progress no doubt sped up by Prime Minister Nilsen and Crown Prince Olav’s visit to Washington D.C. in early November. The 48 D.XXI’s, all completed by late January, were joined by 24 N-3PB’s shipped to Norway in crates from Northrop.
Historians have criticized the Norwegians for not building British aircraft during this time period, and with hindsight, it seems the smart thing to do logistically. However, one mustn't forget that the British were using virtually all available aircraft facilities for their own use in 1940, what with the Blitz and campaigns against Libya and Ethiopia. Even engines could hardly be spared to send to Norway, where they could be paired with Norwegian-built bodies. Thus, the Norwegians built the aircraft they had built prewar, using American engines, and American and Dutch designs. These aircraft served the Norwegians well during the war, and were certainly no worse than a Hurricane, as well as cheaper than a Spitfire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited:
very interested in seeing the results of the PM/Crown Prince visit to Washington...plucky little Norway fighting on, I can visualize a conversation between Franklin and Eleanor, "Franklin, you know you are going to have to do something to help Norway out..."