Det som går ned må komme opp-An Alternate Royal Norwegian Navy TL

Driftless

Donor
This map is from the Naval-history.net site

ww2mR110Arctic.GIF

In this universe, the great long loops required to maintain distance from the Norwegian Coast by the arctic convoys to the Soviets aren't required. If anything, those convoys probably sail as close to Norway as practical, once they're north of Trondheim. They can be more easily covered by Norway based coastal and air forces (nationality by rotation?). Of course, you'd need to change the routes to keep the U-boats guessing somewhat.

It's not only better protection from U-boats (probably beyond the range of marauding Fw-200 Condors?) , but a closer to Norway routing also saves tanker loads of fuel, plus significant wear-and-tear on ships and sailors.
 
Do you think Norway would show the design to the USN? As far as the RN Battle's, considering how the Battle of the Atlantic is going, what's the odds of seeing them sooner.

As far as the Gearings are concerned, I go back to an earlier position where I think there won't be a need for as many Destroyer Escorts and free up production capacity...
If the USN wants it, I don’t think they’ll have a ton of trouble getting it, especially come December. The RN still has to build escorts, as the U-Boat menace is still there, though a bit lessened, but somewhat earlier Battles are possible, same with the Gearings.
 
This map is from the Naval-history.net site

ww2mR110Arctic.GIF

In this universe, the great long loops required to maintain distance from the Norwegian Coast by the arctic convoys to the Soviets aren't required. If anything, those convoys probably sail as close to Norway as practical, once they're north of Trondheim. They can be more easily covered by Norway based coastal and air forces (nationality by rotation?). Of course, you'd need to change the routes to keep the U-boats guessing somewhat.

It's not only better protection from U-boats (probably beyond the range of marauding Fw-200 Condors?) , but a closer to Norway routing also saves tanker loads of fuel, plus significant wear-and-tear on ships and sailors.
They’ll certainly be routed much more efficiently. Currently, the Norwegians are supplying a handful of corvettes, along with one or two destroyers when they can spare them to guard the convoys. The U-Boats don’t enjoy the gauntlet of getting out of the North Sea, as well as attacking convoys with air cover and a good escort, so the convoys are much less costly.
 
@Shevek23

I call Snar and her colleagues ‘carriers’ because their main purpose is to transport the boats, I suppose it is a bit confusing, I will call them MTB carriers in future chapters.

The RNN is currently keeping ports safely open while protecting coastal convoys, as well as those to and from the UK and Murmansk.

The US is going to enter the war on time, I’m envisioning an invasion of Thailand possibly causing the embargo, though the hows and whys of the Pacific aren’t super important ITTL-at least as long as I’m focusing on Norway. I can see USN units being sent to Norway, though not in large numbers for a while.

As for your points on the delay of the landings (which I should have done earlier):

1. Agreed. The rest of 1940 is the Allies trying to stabilize things after the FoF, taking a little Norwegian city isn’t high on the list and the RN, which would provide air cover via carriers, is occupied down south.
2. I’m thinking winter is when the Norwegian Army builds up and modernizes while the Air Services get their new planes.
3. Barbarossa gets a lot of resources sent east, so the focus is again off Norway as the Allies scramble to help the apparently collapsing SU.
4. The Norwegians finally get the aircraft carriers and amphibious assault craft they need for the attack, so they can finally execute the plan that has been developed for a while.

As you stated, the main job for Norway is to get convoys to Murmansk and piss off the Germans in Denmark, causing Adolf to send more men and equipment there instead of east. As for deployments abroad, I could see a battalion or two taking a trip to the UK, as well as men being sent to the Eastern Front, but North Africa seems a bit of a stretch-it’s a ways away from Norway, and desert warfare isn’t something the Army studies. Sending men East is closer and easier, so to me that seems like what the Norwegians would do, though if you have any reasons they should go south as well, I’m all ears.

In terms of attacks on the continent, beyond some diversions in Jutland, I don’t think the Norwegians will be sending large numbers there. I’m thinking maybe some units on the Eastern Front, and I’ve been toying with the idea of Norwegians taking part in an Alt D-Day, but an attack on the most heavily fortified area of the occupied coast seems like something the Allies shouldn’t do.

As always, I’m glad for the feedback and ideas, Shevek.
 

Driftless

Donor
When that time of liberation eventually comes for Denmark, who would be better received by the locals for the task of removing the remaining armed German forces? The Norwegians, or Brits, or French, Canadians, or Americans?

(that's a general question to the reader base)
 
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using the older out of date destroyers as motor torpedo boat carriers is a fairly good idea as the modifications are quick and easy while their use can be immediately put fourth. the new destroyer designs look to be rather large and should be fair competitive alongside the other ships of the allies and axis. another good chapter!
 
When that time of liberation eventually comes for Denmark, who would be better received by the locals for the task of removing the remaining armed German forces? The Norwegians, or Brits, or French, Canadians, or Americans?

(that's a general question to the reader base)
It seems to me that the Norwegians would be best due to the good relations of the countries, but any liberators would probably be welcomed
 
Of course, range was a problem for the Norwegian vessels. Despite sacrificing their torpedo reloads for extra fuel, this mission was still pushing the torpedo boats’ endurance. They would meet the carrier Snar, escorted by a CAP and several boats, 75 nautical miles south of Oslofjord where they had left her. This wasn’t optimal, but it was all the Norwegians had for carriers. Appreciable consideration was being given to converting Svalbard and Jan Mayen to fast carriers once a couple more corvettes worked up, which would alleviate the situation somewhat.

The Norwegians weren’t just launching torpedo boat raids at the juicy target across the Skagerrak.
I call Snar and her colleagues ‘carriers’ because their main purpose is to transport the boats, I suppose it is a bit confusing, I will call them MTB carriers in future chapters.
Do you really need carriers? The S100 S boats had a range of 700 to 750 nmi (810–860 mi; 1,300–1,390 km) at 30Kn so the Skagerrak should not be an issue? (RN boats had less but still Vosper had 470 miles)

94 nautical miles from Kristiansand to Skagen
246 nautical miles from Kristiansand to Copenhagen

Note they could also just add barrels of fuel or tow the TB behind merchants/DDs for the first 1/3 of the attack rather than do anything fancy with carriers? I think carriers really only make sense for trans oceanic voyages rather than the short range here?
 
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Do you really need carriers? The S100 S boats had a range of 700 to 750 nmi (810–860 mi; 1,300–1,390 km) at 30Kn so the Skagerrak should not be an issue? (RN boats had less but still Vosper had 470 miles)

94 nautical miles from Kristiansand to Skagen
246 nautical miles from Kristiansand to Copenhagen

Note they could also just add barrels of fuel or tow the TB behind merchants/DDs for the first 1/3 of the attack rather than do anything fancy with carriers? I think carriers really only make sense for trans oceanic voyages rather than the short range here?
It’s still a fair amount of open water, and any battle damage/breakdowns leave the boats in the middle of not exactly friendly waters. The carriers can also get the boats in closer so they will find their target easier and with less chance of detection, while having fallback options in case things go south. The Skagerrak is also not noted for its calm waters, so carriers can also allow boats to operate in non-perfect weather.
 
In this timeline, how will the Allies arrange the status of Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland? I don't know if the Danish government and royal family successfully escaped from Denmark on this timeline, or became Germany's "cooperative country" as in OTL.
 
It’s still a fair amount of open water, and any battle damage/breakdowns leave the boats in the middle of not exactly friendly waters. ....................................while having fallback options in case things go south. The Skagerrak is also not noted for its calm waters, so carriers can also allow boats to operate in non-perfect weather.
I question if small converted DDs could operate as carriers in bad weather and without stopping/slowing down to unload that would be very dangerous, we are talking about 100t/100ft SBoats/MTBs being moved on and off the deck not small boats or modern ribs?

I think most damage will be in the highest risk areas near the Danish coast so simply pulling the crews onto the other MTBs and scuttling would be more likely?

I don't understand
The carriers can also get the boats in closer so they will find their target easier and with less chance of detection,
The carriers are more likely to be detected than MTBs as they are larger and slower, the only advantage is better range and sea keeping but I would suggest that's most useful to simply tow them for the first 1/3 (and they could do the last 1/3 but that's far more difficult to organize the meetup) to save fuel on the MTB to let them use more speed later?

Unless the support DDs are using radars to help them find targets and that requires them to be in close, so they might as well do the attack themselves, especially due to communications issues early war at night (little/no TBS/voice radio)?
I would assume most targeting is done with help of aircraft/signals detection from Norway?
 
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Chapter LV
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Chapter LV: The Gauntlet

23 November 1941
Oberleutenant Friedrich Von Hippel silently cursed whoever had decided to send him and his command, the Type VIIB U-76, to attack the Allied convoys to the Soviet Union. To reach the routes, however, he had to get through the Allied blockade of the North Sea, an invisible line running from Bergen to Scotland, patrolled by Coastal Command bombers and Allied escorts, as well as littered with minefields, though not to the extent of the previous war. He’d attempted to make the breakthrough on the surface at night, but one of the damned Allied ships patrolling the line had detected his boat.

As Hippel and his men in the command center of the U-76 listened, the ship made another pass with depth charges, her third. Moments later, the submarine rocked as a depth charge detonated close enough to slightly damage her, but not cripple her. Hippel hoped the hunter didn’t have too many more depth charges as his command silently waited for the attacker to give up.

HNOMS Aeger
If the destroyer hadn’t sacrificed a bank of torpedoes to take on more depth charges, as well as an additional pair of Bofors guns, she mightn’t have made another pass. But the Royal Norwegian Navy’s best ASW destroyer had sacrificed half her torpedoes, and wasn’t about to let her quarry escape. She circled back around, continuously tracking U-76 on her ASDIC. The destroyer’s bow bore down on the patch of water on top of the boat, and the men on the stern, huddled in their layers, shivering from the cold, wind, and spray, prepared the pattern for their deadly weapons to be thrown into. Aeger’s bow was now over the submarine, and the ASDIC briefly lost contact.

U-76
Oberleutenant Hippel ordered flank speed and a hard turn as the destroyer passed over U-76 in an effort to evade the depth charges. His hydrophone operator reported depth charges hitting the water.

Aeger
The ASDIC operator took off his headphones so he wouldn’t be deafened by the explosions. The crew on the stern began reloading their depth charges in anticipation of another run. The Captain ordered the destroyer to begin to turn for another run at their elusive quarry, while hoping she hadn’t escaped. The depth charges detonated.

U-76
The nearest explosion was 8 meters off the boat’s stern. As the tanks were blown and the surviving crew scrambled to the escape hatches, U-76 began her final ascent. 43 men had were aboard her to start the day. 18 made it out before she sank. 13 made it aboard Aeger as she slowed and lowered ladders and nets. 12 walked down the gangway under guard when the destroyer docked in Bergen five days later. That same day, the 28th, a half dozen aircraft carriers left port.

U-76 was the latest of numerous victims of the Allied efforts to make the escape from the North Sea a costly effort for the Kriegsmarine. Though losses weren’t crazy high, Doenitz could expect to lose at least one boat every few weeks from the line, though losses varied if numbers transiting the area fluctuated. Aeger’s crew got to paint another kill on the side of her superstructure.
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Nice chapter! Although I think for a description of an engagement, it might be more appropriate to use military time stamps.

"At approximately 1500, Aeger dropped a spread of two depth charges over U-76, causing a partial oil slick to emerge."

That's how I've seen literature address this but it might be messy and awkward to write. Regardless, another good one, go Aeger!
 
That's still OTL late-1941 levels of losses. I expect the existence of a NUK ASW line increase the losses a bit more, although perhaps they get complacent and Hedgehog etc. get delayed?
By one a week, I meant losses from the ASW line, though that is probably too much for just the ASW line so I’ll decrease it.
Nice chapter! Although I think for a description of an engagement, it might be more appropriate to use military time stamps.

"At approximately 1500, Aeger dropped a spread of two depth charges over U-76, causing a partial oil slick to emerge."

That's how I've seen literature address this but it might be messy and awkward to write. Regardless, another good one, go Aeger!
I sometimes use that format, I did for the invasion chapters, but for an engagement of Aeger making passes at the U-Boat, I didn’t feel like time stamps were a requirement since there isn’t a ton to keep track of, plus time elapsed probably isn’t more than 15 minutes.
 
as well as littered with minefields, though not to the extent of the previous war.
Why not? I've have guessed Great War levels of deployment of any weapons systems extant in both wars would be the baseline minimum, not an unmatched maximum! Of course for one thing you could be accounting for time; the Great War ran from mid-1914 to late 1918, over 4 years, and so I suppose Allied minefields (I presume, leaving a little coastal corridor of the most stringent interpretation of Norway's neutral waters, which the Norwegians would have been obligated, to maintain claims of neutrality, to make some attempt to deter U-boats from taking refuge in themselves) simply got denser and more elaborate every year. OTL US Lend-Lease aid to the Soviets rose essentially linearly between the start of 1942 and a few months before VE day, a fact I often call attention to. So it could be that the Allies simply have not yet had time to match the 4 years in peak densities of mines in this strait, especially since the British held off in the most aggressive minelaying there prior to Norway being invaded in April of the year before. Counting mid-April as the zero date for a comprehensive minefield to be undertaken, we've only had something like 16 complete months, some of which involved heavy distractions and major uncertainties as to whether control of Norway would hold. This versus over 50 or so by Armistice Day 1918.

But on the other hand, while I might not be aware of important increases in sophistication of WWII mines versus Great War ones (I am aware of none actually, and figure an early WWII mine and late 1918 one are pretty interchangeable) I figure mines are the kind of weapon system that a late 1930s-early war years industrial system like Britain's (not to mention the possibility of buying more from neutrals like the USA and Sweden) could churn out in gross numbers with higher productivity than peak wartime mobilization could do in the Great War.

Another reason besides simply not having time to lay the vast quantities eventually laid by late 1918 OTL would be if some alternative types of weapons systems make mines nearly obsolete--if we had some sort of ASB magic super-ASDIC that infallibly pinpointed every U-boat in the strait and tracked it for a hundred miles or so, it would be more cost effective to send an ASW task force to just stomp each one with depth charges, for instance. Aside from the fact that mines cost money and valuable war material resources to make, and are kind of hit or miss in their effectiveness, and mostly don't work at all (not commenting on failure rates here, assume those are zero; I mean relatively few mines are ever hit by enemy vessels) there is the nasty fact that postwar, the damn things remain a long term hazard to peaceful navigation and a major expensive effort must be made to sweep them up--an effort which inevitably misses some that haphazardly go off sinking innocent ships for decades to come. If one had an alternative to mines, that was more cost effective, we'd almost certainly prefer that!

However I think in 1941 the opposite is more the case. The highly sophisticated and effective ways of hunting down and sinking U-boats that would be state of the art and widely deployed OTL by 1944 or so here are experimental, when they have indeed even been proposed at all, and under development. With the relatively primitive methods shown here (of course leaps and bounds more advanced than 1918 practices, but still not nearly as impressive as the kind of thing coastal commands could do by the end of the war) we are driven rather toward the other end of the spectrum--good ASW assets are still in short supply. Whereas the big advantage over OTL is that the shortest width of the strait is controlled by the Allies on both sides; Norway is no longer a frugal, poor and low budged neutral leaving perforce a major hole in any attempted Allied barrages; on the contrary her west coast bristles with naval and aerial warcraft considerably beyond Norway's own most vigorous means, the British no doubt lavishing considerable investment in this task because costly as it is, the payoff is tremendous. If Fritz were entirely rational in fact, they'd give up on probing the north reach completely--so I have assumed anyway.

But recognizing that golden as the opportunity is to seal off this route completely, and even that the RN has somewhat more slack and therefore there ought to be ships available for this mission not OTL, underscored by the fact that if they can in fact completely cork up this strait so zero U-boats can get through, or even make the odds something like 50/50 they will sink a given U-boat attempting the passage, that the reduction in U-boats hunting in the northern waters will free up yet more ASW hulls surplus to reduced requirements in the broad North Atlantic--still, the ships and planes are finite in number, scarce at the start of the war. The fact that the Norwegian warships are a significant increment of the assets available underscores this point!

But then I think, we would want to substitute low quality, hit or miss weapons like mines churned out and laid in really massive quantity. Preserving certain relatively narrow channels for shipping, warships and transports, to pass through, where we concentrate our scarce ASW vessels, the almost continuous wall of mines, I was thinking, forces Fritz to either face the ships trying to slip through the openings, or face near certain death on some mine. No need to conceal where the mine barrages are; we want the KM to know it, and fear it.

OTL this was no option due to the Germans holding Norway; planes, coastal boats and U-boats, not to mention shore artillery, could repel Allied attempts to seal this passage off; Axis vessels, practically speaking U-boats later in the war, could simply hug the Norwegian coast and then break out along a broad front hard to patrol. I reasoned that with Norway an Ally, it would be far more feasible to block the U-boats completely.

Well, apparently it ain't necessarily so; as late as November '41 a U-boat can seriously contemplate slipping past. I expect that to change both as various advanced technologies such as more sophisticated sonar and airborne radars come into play. I suppose when these were lacking, it was possible for the U-boats to surface at night, at least on dark nights, especially with overcast, and stand a good chance to fully charge their batteries before approaching passive barriers.

Come to think of it, obviously standard naval mines designed to catch surface ships would be a lot less effective against submarines, because the subs, approaching the field, could simply dive down to a depth where they would not trigger any mines floating near the surface--as long as the breadth of the field is not greater than their battery range, the mines would accomplish nothing. So presumably this was realized during the Great War and alternative mines were devised that park at greater depths; without very sophisticated undersea imaging, such as would be pretty nifty high tech today and certainly were not available in the 1940s, they would not see whether they were approaching such a submerged mine or not.

In addition to higher tech, as the war progresses, the Allies just keep accumulating assets until there are just lots of Coastal Command patrol planes and eventually there is no safe place for the U-boats to breathe; the breadth of the gauntlet would defeat them. If years must pass, meanwhile the Germans are going to develop stuff like snorkels (simply stealing it from the Dutch I believe) which still leave a radar signature to be picked up--but requiring far superior radars and still being pretty stealthy even then. Or the Walter scheme to power submarines with turbine engines (I believe, detail on these Walter engines has been hard for me to come by) oxidized by hydrogen peroxide for truly air-free submerged propulsion.

So, I have to guess you did your research and learned that even where the Allies had the luxury of setting up an antisubmarine gauntlet shore to shore, these merely caused some attrition but never turned into absolute uncrossable barriers. Silly me, I did thing exactly that could be accomplished, and assumed minefields would be the quick dirty way to achieve most of it, forcing subs to attempt much narrower passages where the Allied ASW is concentrated in force, eventually, as Allied resources get richer, with lighter screening ahead of and behind the main "wall" to give any U-boat captains intrepid and lucky enough to get through, either by braving random death in a minefield or running the active gauntlet in the open parts, nightmares of being caught anyway in more open water.

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One major pet interest of mine remains LTA, and in OTL WWII time frame, blimps. OTL the British (and French, and Italians) used smaller dirigibles, the British in fact inventing the term "blimp," for such auxiliary but important functions as coastal patrol. Now I have been assuming that Coastal Command (and thus the corresponding smaller numbers of planes with similar mission in Norwegian service, which actually make up the bulk of aircraft the Norwegians are manufacturing themselves) was totally up to the task, in conjunction with mine fields and seaborne destroyers and patrol boats, of blocking all U-boats by quite early after mostly clearing the invaders from Norway--the Germans hanging on in the south would not compromise this much I figured, though it is a great thing they are finally gone. OTL Britain did not revive her Great War blimp program at all.

But learning here that actually the great wall I assumed was totally blocking U-boats, or anyway with only a few occasional German subs getting through, is more the other way round, and most U-boats do get through at this point, I have to wonder, would not the British and Norwegians become a heck of a lot more interested in developing that option?

Airships, even small ones such as the K and L class ships the USN eventually operated in the hundreds in WWII, have certain inherent advantages in missions like this, especially in waters where the chance of an enemy air raid is remote to none. Their lift is quite respectable even by the standards of WWII airplanes--outclassed by the biggest transports, bombers and flying boats, but quite good versus more common smaller planes. They fly much slower and lower of course, but for a mission like looking for signs of enemy subs, these are virtues not vices. A major thing to consider is that generally, blimp flight is smooth and low stress, with few instances of large accelerations, relatively low vibration (well, give or take the proximity of radial engines right next to the gondola, but that is not worse than most WWII multiengine airplanes) and very expansive volumes are available for installations. For these reasons, advanced prototypes of new types of avionics were often pioneered on blimps--such as airborne radar, infrared systems, and magnetic anomaly detectors (MAD). Sonobuoys were part of the routine arsenal of late WWII USN blimps too.

In American coastal waters (and the USN eventually deployed airships in the Caribbean, down to northern Brazil, and ferried them across the Atlantic to North Africa to operate some even in the Mediterranean, as well as maintaining squadrons all along the CONUS coasts, from Massachusetts to Louisiana (offhand I can't recall a blimp base in Texas) and from San Diego to Tillimook, Oregon (again I am drawing a blank recalling any bases in Washington State) U-boat captains generally dived whenever they saw a blimp on the far horizon, knowing that if the "little airships" ever spotted them they could just pace them vectoring sub killers in. There are no acknowledged cases of these blimps ever destroying an enemy asset (there is some controversy about some claims, but official Naval ruling denies these cases) whereas once a U-boat did most certainly shoot down a pursuing blimp (it moved to attack but its Lewis machine gun jammed).

As noted, in the Great War the British improvised their own blimps, and such foes of large rigid airships as Winston Churchill did credit these little blimps with important accomplishments, of the same patrol, observe and deter type. They had therefore built some large hangars for them, in addition to other hangars such as the works at Pulham and Cardington for the big rigid airship programs. Cardington at least exists to this day, not sure about Pulham (it was the site IIRC where Barnes Wallis built R100 for Vickers in the late '20s and early '30s, unlike its more officially favored rival R101 R100 was nearly the same quite large size and was effective in the few missions, including a transAtlantic flight to Montreal, it was tasked with) lasting to 1941. At any rate--Cardington certainly existed, and could house a fair number of typical Goodyear K ships.

The USA not being in the war yet, there is some question as to whether Goodyear would be authorized to sell the British or Norwegians any blimps. In fact when the USA entered the war OTL, the Navy had just a handful of modern K and L ships (the latter were smaller, meant for training but pressed into service as patrol ships anyway, and were typical of the postwar advertising blimp in size)--they also had a half dozen or so interim semimodern ships built in the mid-30s for the US Army, which had until the later '30s the mission of defending US coasts! Goodyear's own in company small fleet of several advertising blimps rounded out the tiny numbers of these airships in operation--all were initially used for WWII coastal patrol until the Goodyear factories started cranking out new airships by the dozens and eventually, hundreds. Another troublesome point is that all these blimps were designed to be inflated with helium, which as of 1941 was a US monopoly, regulated by special Congressional law going back to WWI, under military control and reserved. Now I have read anecdotally that at least one L-type model was acquired postwar by a German operation which inflated it with hydrogen, and even that its flight crew included people who smoked tobacco on the job, and it flew a respectable number of hourse before being peacefully retired with no mishaps. So, especially if either Goodyear or Allied recipients modify the gondola for improved fireproofing, it seems possible that even without the USA releasing any helium, Britain and Norway can get started on inflating and operating several modified K or L type ships pretty much immediately upon delivery or soon after, even if they are forced to inflate them with hydrogen. If they do that, this will involve both cheaper operation (barring the risk of fire) and superior static lift, and leave open fairly conventional airship operational practices such as balancing water and sand ballast against venting hydrogen, which operators using helium had to avoid doing--not only was helium relatively expensive versus hydrogen (not that pure hydrogen was exactly cheap to be sure) it was also only available by being shipped in, whereas hydrogen can be manufactured in situ at any location with suitable plant and power available. (The Germans used to take finely ground iron, and blast it with suitably hot high pressure steam; the iron would pull the oxygen out of the water molecules leaving pure hydrogen gas with some residual water vapor, relatively easily filtered out; power therefore need not be electric, although the electrolysis process is obviously available too).

Aside from any qualms the US government might have about allowing the Allies access to Lend Lease helium, and associated logistic and handling plant installation issues, I am not sure what the attitude of Goodyear corporation would be if approached by an Anglo-Norwegian delegation to buy or license Goodyear designs. On the whole I suppose it would be favorable, probably. To be sure, between the wars Goodyear had corporate ties to the original Luftschifftbau Zeppelin company in Germany; Goodyear-Zeppelin corporation was spun off (still within the Goodyear corporate family though) to manufacture big rigid airships, and did make two (of an advanced design I love) for the USN, building a quite magnificent and elegantly streamlined gigantic hangar at Akron Ohio to do so. (A similar design was later built at Moffet Field for the USN, in Sunnyvale at the south end of the San Francisco Bay area, it is now the site of NASA Ames--also a number of the timber hangars built for the blimps during WWII were of this same streamlined design, more or less). Goodyear-Zeppelin was originally conceived, on the German side, as a life line because all German aircraft, especially Zeppelins, were banned by the Versailles Treaty and the Zeppelin works at Friedreichshafen on Lake Constance (Bodensee) were slated for demolition; at that point the American spinoff was seen as possibly the only refuge left for Zeppelin expertise to survive. In the event various stays of execution allowed Zeppelin to remain in operation in the 1920s and of course the company served the German Third Reich in the '30s--not everyone with equal enthusiasm; head Dr Hugo Eckener would often loudly denounce the Nazis as mere thugs and gangsters, and was stripped of his German citizenship and control of the company--but he did continue to work there, nor did the regime ever actually hunt him down. Anyway the early 1920s deal involved some 20 or so major Zeppelin designers emigrating to the USA to work for Goodyear-Zeppelin. The two companies had agreements of reciprocal licensing and other ties, still active into the later '30s Reich or no Reich. On the other hand, the chief of the German emigrant engineers, Dr Karl Arnstein, was actually despite his Germanic name of Austro-Hungarian birth, specifically from Bohemia, and his parents were Jews who had converted to Catholicism--so obviously he would have little sentiment for Hitler's regime on several counts, and in fact he renamed his children "Austen" in America. Arnstein is credited with primary design for the ZRS rigids USS Akron and Macon, and also is the primary name on the patent for the internal catenary curtain suspension blimp design I have been talking about as a "Goodyear blimp." But he was wearing a different hat than Goodyear-Zeppelin when he submitted that patent; GZ company existed to develop and operate big rigid airships, whereas the smaller pressure ships that Goodyear empire more often made in much larger numbers were under a different corporate division of the parent Goodyear company. I am not sure just how long Goodyear Zeppelin lasted on paper, into the late 1930s I believe, but meanwhile legally speaking the blimps were not made by GZ, though a lot of the same engineers worked for both, and I believe once WWII started, GZ was liquidated and its assets shifted over to Goodyear Aircraft Corporation, which made the blimps (as well as getting a contract for Vought Corsairs later in the war, and designing an upgrade of that naval fighter/attack plane, which got some test flights and a Naval designation FG, though the war ended before the Navy purchased any operational models).

So it is not the German born engineers, long supplemented by American ones working with them of course, I am thinking about here--not their chief, Arnstein, anyway. No, it is the presumably largely WASP Goodyear corporate directors I wonder about. In general many US corporations had rather dubious ties to Germany, in some cases with actually pro-Axis members of various boards or in executive positions, most often of course on the simple basis of profits from licensing deals going both ways with German firms. I'd worry that the special relationship with LZ in Germany might have biased Goodyear toward this lean a bit more than usual--surely many directors would be quite anti-Nazi but perhaps not all of them?

Certainly OTL once the USA entered the war, Goodyear was a major military contractor whose chief weapon system was aimed straight at defeating the Axis, Germany especially--blimps patrolled the US Pacific coast too against IJN subs, but it was obviously U-boats that were the worse overall threat and it was only in the European theater Goodyear blimps ever wound up advancing overseas, as noted via South America and Africa into the Mediterranean.

Another consideration against deploying blimps to close the North Sea route to U-boats would be the matter of hangars again, this time as being vulnerable to bombing. No American blimp hangars were under any but the remotest threat of Axis attacks; if we base hydrogen inflated K or L ships in Cardington however, might not the Luftwaffe make a special effort to surge in some bombers to hit that target? The Germans knew from their own Great War experience how vulnerable airship hangars can be to bombing, especially if the airships are using hydrogen for lift! Damage that would be only partial could turn into a general conflagration! Of course Cardington, and any other surviving big airship hangars in Britain, would have been designed to minimize fire danger, since all British airships were lifted by hydrogen. I was thinking it would not be too difficult to throw up a big timber hangar in Norway, given the abundance of timber in that country, but of course this too would be vulnerable to a major Luftwaffe initiative unless placed pretty damn far north, say in Narvik or even beyond.

If Allied blimp use converts back to helium lift despite the drawbacks (and OTL the USN was certainly able to operate far from CONUS on that basis after all). this danger is somewhat mitigated but not eliminated. I suppose one solution would be to develop a major hangar complex in northern Ireland, and then deploy blimps from there to expeditionary masts in east Scotland and in Norway, perhaps with a Norwegian hangar in Narvik--or if judged safe enough, Trondheim. Blimps most certainly are capable of very long ranges and endurance! Another option is for the Allies to procure or modify some other type of ship into a seagoing airship tender such as the USS Patoka; blimps could moor to it, and be refueled and otherwise gunned up, perhaps even exchanging crews, for it to then take off and fly another patrol of some days.

At 800 meters altitude, doing the math in my head I think the line of sight distance to the horizon is 100 kilometers, close to a full degree of circumference. Now at the extreme range this is not worth much to be sure. (A typical GAC blimp could rise a lot higher; the two main ballonets plus sidesaddle "pannier" ballonets had capacity of a quarter the whole envelope volume and so it could rise to an altitude where air density is 3/4 that of sea level without venting helium, some 3 kilometers or 10,000 feet--though I think trim considerations making it undesirable to empty the air ballonets would make a practical ceiling somewhat lower. But much of the benefit of using a blimp for coastal patrol is that it flies very low as well as slow (some 40 knots cruising speed, being able to surge up to about 60 or perhaps, with souped up engines and redlining everything, somewhat faster--the issue is not power so much as structural risks at high airspeeds. Flying low and slow, endurance is incredibly long, and fuel consumption quite frugal. Low means very close scrutiny of nearby waters and slow means little disturbance of close observation by zipping past difficult to observe U-boats). The long line of sight is much longer with typical airplanes of the era of course, but where the blimp might really shine is if we install very powerful radar in it. A large radar set at high power could perhaps sweep a very wide disk of ocean for even subtle U-boat signatures, then if seeing any the airship can come very close. Now German U-boats had deck guns, and if the blimps must use hydrogen they might be terribly vulnerable if they stick their noses in too close, but vice versa a sub surfacing to attempt to shoot down the blimp would give away its position; it might be a trade of one blimp for one submarine. But that's the worst case; at its attainable airspeeds the blimp can run from a WWII submarine after all.

Thinking that good radar coverage might be limited to say 30 nautical miles or so in radius, a dozen or so radar equipped K ships might be able to maintain constant surveillance, day and night, of a solid swathe 60 NM across and stretching from the Scottish coast to Bergen. This is not quite the perfect infallible U-boat finder I mentioned as an ASB ideal up post, but it comes scarily close for the KM sub crews!

I think, given the revelation that conventional ASW ships and mines are not cutting it, that the Admiralty or RAF might figure this vulnerability out early on 1940, and turn to approaching Goodyear Aircraft Corporation, either hoping for US release of helium for their regular operation, or a reasonable set of modifications to enable fairly safe operations with hydrogen, and beginning early in 1941 start operating increasing numbers of big blimps, to tighten up the seal on the Scotland-Bergen barrier line, and also to range far north of that line to pick up any U-boats that got through, and perhaps, if Luftwaffe strafing attacks can be held back, south of the line to winnow out some of the U-boats contemplating running through that line and deter them from trying it. If hangars in east Scotland and Bergen are too vulnerable, the long range of airships enables them to operate far south or east of their main bases, and IIRC, stay on patrol day and night for days at a time--the crews were large enough for multishift operations of that kind to be feasible.

The advantage over faster and higher flying fixed wing aircraft is as noted that the gentle conditions in the airship enable fussy, tempermental advanced gear prototypes, or very high power versions of more conventional equipment, deployed hard against a surface pretty near by and quite competitively with any land plane.
 
Why not? I've have guessed Great War levels of deployment of any weapons systems extant in both wars would be the baseline minimum, not an unmatched maximum! Of course for one thing you could be accounting for time; the Great War ran from mid-1914 to late 1918, over 4 years, and so I suppose Allied minefields (I presume, leaving a little coastal corridor of the most stringent interpretation of Norway's neutral waters, which the Norwegians would have been obligated, to maintain claims of neutrality, to make some attempt to deter U-boats from taking refuge in themselves) simply got denser and more elaborate every year. OTL US Lend-Lease aid to the Soviets rose essentially linearly between the start of 1942 and a few months before VE day, a fact I often call attention to. So it could be that the Allies simply have not yet had time to match the 4 years in peak densities of mines in this strait, especially since the British held off in the most aggressive minelaying there prior to Norway being invaded in April of the year before. Counting mid-April as the zero date for a comprehensive minefield to be undertaken, we've only had something like 16 complete months, some of which involved heavy distractions and major uncertainties as to whether control of Norway would hold. This versus over 50 or so by Armistice Day 1918.

But on the other hand, while I might not be aware of important increases in sophistication of WWII mines versus Great War ones (I am aware of none actually, and figure an early WWII mine and late 1918 one are pretty interchangeable) I figure mines are the kind of weapon system that a late 1930s-early war years industrial system like Britain's (not to mention the possibility of buying more from neutrals like the USA and Sweden) could churn out in gross numbers with higher productivity than peak wartime mobilization could do in the Great War.

Another reason besides simply not having time to lay the vast quantities eventually laid by late 1918 OTL would be if some alternative types of weapons systems make mines nearly obsolete--if we had some sort of ASB magic super-ASDIC that infallibly pinpointed every U-boat in the strait and tracked it for a hundred miles or so, it would be more cost effective to send an ASW task force to just stomp each one with depth charges, for instance. Aside from the fact that mines cost money and valuable war material resources to make, and are kind of hit or miss in their effectiveness, and mostly don't work at all (not commenting on failure rates here, assume those are zero; I mean relatively few mines are ever hit by enemy vessels) there is the nasty fact that postwar, the damn things remain a long term hazard to peaceful navigation and a major expensive effort must be made to sweep them up--an effort which inevitably misses some that haphazardly go off sinking innocent ships for decades to come. If one had an alternative to mines, that was more cost effective, we'd almost certainly prefer that!

However I think in 1941 the opposite is more the case. The highly sophisticated and effective ways of hunting down and sinking U-boats that would be state of the art and widely deployed OTL by 1944 or so here are experimental, when they have indeed even been proposed at all, and under development. With the relatively primitive methods shown here (of course leaps and bounds more advanced than 1918 practices, but still not nearly as impressive as the kind of thing coastal commands could do by the end of the war) we are driven rather toward the other end of the spectrum--good ASW assets are still in short supply. Whereas the big advantage over OTL is that the shortest width of the strait is controlled by the Allies on both sides; Norway is no longer a frugal, poor and low budged neutral leaving perforce a major hole in any attempted Allied barrages; on the contrary her west coast bristles with naval and aerial warcraft considerably beyond Norway's own most vigorous means, the British no doubt lavishing considerable investment in this task because costly as it is, the payoff is tremendous. If Fritz were entirely rational in fact, they'd give up on probing the north reach completely--so I have assumed anyway.

But recognizing that golden as the opportunity is to seal off this route completely, and even that the RN has somewhat more slack and therefore there ought to be ships available for this mission not OTL, underscored by the fact that if they can in fact completely cork up this strait so zero U-boats can get through, or even make the odds something like 50/50 they will sink a given U-boat attempting the passage, that the reduction in U-boats hunting in the northern waters will free up yet more ASW hulls surplus to reduced requirements in the broad North Atlantic--still, the ships and planes are finite in number, scarce at the start of the war. The fact that the Norwegian warships are a significant increment of the assets available underscores this point!

But then I think, we would want to substitute low quality, hit or miss weapons like mines churned out and laid in really massive quantity. Preserving certain relatively narrow channels for shipping, warships and transports, to pass through, where we concentrate our scarce ASW vessels, the almost continuous wall of mines, I was thinking, forces Fritz to either face the ships trying to slip through the openings, or face near certain death on some mine. No need to conceal where the mine barrages are; we want the KM to know it, and fear it.

OTL this was no option due to the Germans holding Norway; planes, coastal boats and U-boats, not to mention shore artillery, could repel Allied attempts to seal this passage off; Axis vessels, practically speaking U-boats later in the war, could simply hug the Norwegian coast and then break out along a broad front hard to patrol. I reasoned that with Norway an Ally, it would be far more feasible to block the U-boats completely.

Well, apparently it ain't necessarily so; as late as November '41 a U-boat can seriously contemplate slipping past. I expect that to change both as various advanced technologies such as more sophisticated sonar and airborne radars come into play. I suppose when these were lacking, it was possible for the U-boats to surface at night, at least on dark nights, especially with overcast, and stand a good chance to fully charge their batteries before approaching passive barriers.

Come to think of it, obviously standard naval mines designed to catch surface ships would be a lot less effective against submarines, because the subs, approaching the field, could simply dive down to a depth where they would not trigger any mines floating near the surface--as long as the breadth of the field is not greater than their battery range, the mines would accomplish nothing. So presumably this was realized during the Great War and alternative mines were devised that park at greater depths; without very sophisticated undersea imaging, such as would be pretty nifty high tech today and certainly were not available in the 1940s, they would not see whether they were approaching such a submerged mine or not.

In addition to higher tech, as the war progresses, the Allies just keep accumulating assets until there are just lots of Coastal Command patrol planes and eventually there is no safe place for the U-boats to breathe; the breadth of the gauntlet would defeat them. If years must pass, meanwhile the Germans are going to develop stuff like snorkels (simply stealing it from the Dutch I believe) which still leave a radar signature to be picked up--but requiring far superior radars and still being pretty stealthy even then. Or the Walter scheme to power submarines with turbine engines (I believe, detail on these Walter engines has been hard for me to come by) oxidized by hydrogen peroxide for truly air-free submerged propulsion.

So, I have to guess you did your research and learned that even where the Allies had the luxury of setting up an antisubmarine gauntlet shore to shore, these merely caused some attrition but never turned into absolute uncrossable barriers. Silly me, I did thing exactly that could be accomplished, and assumed minefields would be the quick dirty way to achieve most of it, forcing subs to attempt much narrower passages where the Allied ASW is concentrated in force, eventually, as Allied resources get richer, with lighter screening ahead of and behind the main "wall" to give any U-boat captains intrepid and lucky enough to get through, either by braving random death in a minefield or running the active gauntlet in the open parts, nightmares of being caught anyway in more open water.

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One major pet interest of mine remains LTA, and in OTL WWII time frame, blimps. OTL the British (and French, and Italians) used smaller dirigibles, the British in fact inventing the term "blimp," for such auxiliary but important functions as coastal patrol. Now I have been assuming that Coastal Command (and thus the corresponding smaller numbers of planes with similar mission in Norwegian service, which actually make up the bulk of aircraft the Norwegians are manufacturing themselves) was totally up to the task, in conjunction with mine fields and seaborne destroyers and patrol boats, of blocking all U-boats by quite early after mostly clearing the invaders from Norway--the Germans hanging on in the south would not compromise this much I figured, though it is a great thing they are finally gone. OTL Britain did not revive her Great War blimp program at all.

But learning here that actually the great wall I assumed was totally blocking U-boats, or anyway with only a few occasional German subs getting through, is more the other way round, and most U-boats do get through at this point, I have to wonder, would not the British and Norwegians become a heck of a lot more interested in developing that option?

Airships, even small ones such as the K and L class ships the USN eventually operated in the hundreds in WWII, have certain inherent advantages in missions like this, especially in waters where the chance of an enemy air raid is remote to none. Their lift is quite respectable even by the standards of WWII airplanes--outclassed by the biggest transports, bombers and flying boats, but quite good versus more common smaller planes. They fly much slower and lower of course, but for a mission like looking for signs of enemy subs, these are virtues not vices. A major thing to consider is that generally, blimp flight is smooth and low stress, with few instances of large accelerations, relatively low vibration (well, give or take the proximity of radial engines right next to the gondola, but that is not worse than most WWII multiengine airplanes) and very expansive volumes are available for installations. For these reasons, advanced prototypes of new types of avionics were often pioneered on blimps--such as airborne radar, infrared systems, and magnetic anomaly detectors (MAD). Sonobuoys were part of the routine arsenal of late WWII USN blimps too.

In American coastal waters (and the USN eventually deployed airships in the Caribbean, down to northern Brazil, and ferried them across the Atlantic to North Africa to operate some even in the Mediterranean, as well as maintaining squadrons all along the CONUS coasts, from Massachusetts to Louisiana (offhand I can't recall a blimp base in Texas) and from San Diego to Tillimook, Oregon (again I am drawing a blank recalling any bases in Washington State) U-boat captains generally dived whenever they saw a blimp on the far horizon, knowing that if the "little airships" ever spotted them they could just pace them vectoring sub killers in. There are no acknowledged cases of these blimps ever destroying an enemy asset (there is some controversy about some claims, but official Naval ruling denies these cases) whereas once a U-boat did most certainly shoot down a pursuing blimp (it moved to attack but its Lewis machine gun jammed).

As noted, in the Great War the British improvised their own blimps, and such foes of large rigid airships as Winston Churchill did credit these little blimps with important accomplishments, of the same patrol, observe and deter type. They had therefore built some large hangars for them, in addition to other hangars such as the works at Pulham and Cardington for the big rigid airship programs. Cardington at least exists to this day, not sure about Pulham (it was the site IIRC where Barnes Wallis built R100 for Vickers in the late '20s and early '30s, unlike its more officially favored rival R101 R100 was nearly the same quite large size and was effective in the few missions, including a transAtlantic flight to Montreal, it was tasked with) lasting to 1941. At any rate--Cardington certainly existed, and could house a fair number of typical Goodyear K ships.

The USA not being in the war yet, there is some question as to whether Goodyear would be authorized to sell the British or Norwegians any blimps. In fact when the USA entered the war OTL, the Navy had just a handful of modern K and L ships (the latter were smaller, meant for training but pressed into service as patrol ships anyway, and were typical of the postwar advertising blimp in size)--they also had a half dozen or so interim semimodern ships built in the mid-30s for the US Army, which had until the later '30s the mission of defending US coasts! Goodyear's own in company small fleet of several advertising blimps rounded out the tiny numbers of these airships in operation--all were initially used for WWII coastal patrol until the Goodyear factories started cranking out new airships by the dozens and eventually, hundreds. Another troublesome point is that all these blimps were designed to be inflated with helium, which as of 1941 was a US monopoly, regulated by special Congressional law going back to WWI, under military control and reserved. Now I have read anecdotally that at least one L-type model was acquired postwar by a German operation which inflated it with hydrogen, and even that its flight crew included people who smoked tobacco on the job, and it flew a respectable number of hourse before being peacefully retired with no mishaps. So, especially if either Goodyear or Allied recipients modify the gondola for improved fireproofing, it seems possible that even without the USA releasing any helium, Britain and Norway can get started on inflating and operating several modified K or L type ships pretty much immediately upon delivery or soon after, even if they are forced to inflate them with hydrogen. If they do that, this will involve both cheaper operation (barring the risk of fire) and superior static lift, and leave open fairly conventional airship operational practices such as balancing water and sand ballast against venting hydrogen, which operators using helium had to avoid doing--not only was helium relatively expensive versus hydrogen (not that pure hydrogen was exactly cheap to be sure) it was also only available by being shipped in, whereas hydrogen can be manufactured in situ at any location with suitable plant and power available. (The Germans used to take finely ground iron, and blast it with suitably hot high pressure steam; the iron would pull the oxygen out of the water molecules leaving pure hydrogen gas with some residual water vapor, relatively easily filtered out; power therefore need not be electric, although the electrolysis process is obviously available too).

Aside from any qualms the US government might have about allowing the Allies access to Lend Lease helium, and associated logistic and handling plant installation issues, I am not sure what the attitude of Goodyear corporation would be if approached by an Anglo-Norwegian delegation to buy or license Goodyear designs. On the whole I suppose it would be favorable, probably. To be sure, between the wars Goodyear had corporate ties to the original Luftschifftbau Zeppelin company in Germany; Goodyear-Zeppelin corporation was spun off (still within the Goodyear corporate family though) to manufacture big rigid airships, and did make two (of an advanced design I love) for the USN, building a quite magnificent and elegantly streamlined gigantic hangar at Akron Ohio to do so. (A similar design was later built at Moffet Field for the USN, in Sunnyvale at the south end of the San Francisco Bay area, it is now the site of NASA Ames--also a number of the timber hangars built for the blimps during WWII were of this same streamlined design, more or less). Goodyear-Zeppelin was originally conceived, on the German side, as a life line because all German aircraft, especially Zeppelins, were banned by the Versailles Treaty and the Zeppelin works at Friedreichshafen on Lake Constance (Bodensee) were slated for demolition; at that point the American spinoff was seen as possibly the only refuge left for Zeppelin expertise to survive. In the event various stays of execution allowed Zeppelin to remain in operation in the 1920s and of course the company served the German Third Reich in the '30s--not everyone with equal enthusiasm; head Dr Hugo Eckener would often loudly denounce the Nazis as mere thugs and gangsters, and was stripped of his German citizenship and control of the company--but he did continue to work there, nor did the regime ever actually hunt him down. Anyway the early 1920s deal involved some 20 or so major Zeppelin designers emigrating to the USA to work for Goodyear-Zeppelin. The two companies had agreements of reciprocal licensing and other ties, still active into the later '30s Reich or no Reich. On the other hand, the chief of the German emigrant engineers, Dr Karl Arnstein, was actually despite his Germanic name of Austro-Hungarian birth, specifically from Bohemia, and his parents were Jews who had converted to Catholicism--so obviously he would have little sentiment for Hitler's regime on several counts, and in fact he renamed his children "Austen" in America. Arnstein is credited with primary design for the ZRS rigids USS Akron and Macon, and also is the primary name on the patent for the internal catenary curtain suspension blimp design I have been talking about as a "Goodyear blimp." But he was wearing a different hat than Goodyear-Zeppelin when he submitted that patent; GZ company existed to develop and operate big rigid airships, whereas the smaller pressure ships that Goodyear empire more often made in much larger numbers were under a different corporate division of the parent Goodyear company. I am not sure just how long Goodyear Zeppelin lasted on paper, into the late 1930s I believe, but meanwhile legally speaking the blimps were not made by GZ, though a lot of the same engineers worked for both, and I believe once WWII started, GZ was liquidated and its assets shifted over to Goodyear Aircraft Corporation, which made the blimps (as well as getting a contract for Vought Corsairs later in the war, and designing an upgrade of that naval fighter/attack plane, which got some test flights and a Naval designation FG, though the war ended before the Navy purchased any operational models).

So it is not the German born engineers, long supplemented by American ones working with them of course, I am thinking about here--not their chief, Arnstein, anyway. No, it is the presumably largely WASP Goodyear corporate directors I wonder about. In general many US corporations had rather dubious ties to Germany, in some cases with actually pro-Axis members of various boards or in executive positions, most often of course on the simple basis of profits from licensing deals going both ways with German firms. I'd worry that the special relationship with LZ in Germany might have biased Goodyear toward this lean a bit more than usual--surely many directors would be quite anti-Nazi but perhaps not all of them?

Certainly OTL once the USA entered the war, Goodyear was a major military contractor whose chief weapon system was aimed straight at defeating the Axis, Germany especially--blimps patrolled the US Pacific coast too against IJN subs, but it was obviously U-boats that were the worse overall threat and it was only in the European theater Goodyear blimps ever wound up advancing overseas, as noted via South America and Africa into the Mediterranean.

Another consideration against deploying blimps to close the North Sea route to U-boats would be the matter of hangars again, this time as being vulnerable to bombing. No American blimp hangars were under any but the remotest threat of Axis attacks; if we base hydrogen inflated K or L ships in Cardington however, might not the Luftwaffe make a special effort to surge in some bombers to hit that target? The Germans knew from their own Great War experience how vulnerable airship hangars can be to bombing, especially if the airships are using hydrogen for lift! Damage that would be only partial could turn into a general conflagration! Of course Cardington, and any other surviving big airship hangars in Britain, would have been designed to minimize fire danger, since all British airships were lifted by hydrogen. I was thinking it would not be too difficult to throw up a big timber hangar in Norway, given the abundance of timber in that country, but of course this too would be vulnerable to a major Luftwaffe initiative unless placed pretty damn far north, say in Narvik or even beyond.

If Allied blimp use converts back to helium lift despite the drawbacks (and OTL the USN was certainly able to operate far from CONUS on that basis after all). this danger is somewhat mitigated but not eliminated. I suppose one solution would be to develop a major hangar complex in northern Ireland, and then deploy blimps from there to expeditionary masts in east Scotland and in Norway, perhaps with a Norwegian hangar in Narvik--or if judged safe enough, Trondheim. Blimps most certainly are capable of very long ranges and endurance! Another option is for the Allies to procure or modify some other type of ship into a seagoing airship tender such as the USS Patoka; blimps could moor to it, and be refueled and otherwise gunned up, perhaps even exchanging crews, for it to then take off and fly another patrol of some days.

At 800 meters altitude, doing the math in my head I think the line of sight distance to the horizon is 100 kilometers, close to a full degree of circumference. Now at the extreme range this is not worth much to be sure. (A typical GAC blimp could rise a lot higher; the two main ballonets plus sidesaddle "pannier" ballonets had capacity of a quarter the whole envelope volume and so it could rise to an altitude where air density is 3/4 that of sea level without venting helium, some 3 kilometers or 10,000 feet--though I think trim considerations making it undesirable to empty the air ballonets would make a practical ceiling somewhat lower. But much of the benefit of using a blimp for coastal patrol is that it flies very low as well as slow (some 40 knots cruising speed, being able to surge up to about 60 or perhaps, with souped up engines and redlining everything, somewhat faster--the issue is not power so much as structural risks at high airspeeds. Flying low and slow, endurance is incredibly long, and fuel consumption quite frugal. Low means very close scrutiny of nearby waters and slow means little disturbance of close observation by zipping past difficult to observe U-boats). The long line of sight is much longer with typical airplanes of the era of course, but where the blimp might really shine is if we install very powerful radar in it. A large radar set at high power could perhaps sweep a very wide disk of ocean for even subtle U-boat signatures, then if seeing any the airship can come very close. Now German U-boats had deck guns, and if the blimps must use hydrogen they might be terribly vulnerable if they stick their noses in too close, but vice versa a sub surfacing to attempt to shoot down the blimp would give away its position; it might be a trade of one blimp for one submarine. But that's the worst case; at its attainable airspeeds the blimp can run from a WWII submarine after all.

Thinking that good radar coverage might be limited to say 30 nautical miles or so in radius, a dozen or so radar equipped K ships might be able to maintain constant surveillance, day and night, of a solid swathe 60 NM across and stretching from the Scottish coast to Bergen. This is not quite the perfect infallible U-boat finder I mentioned as an ASB ideal up post, but it comes scarily close for the KM sub crews!

I think, given the revelation that conventional ASW ships and mines are not cutting it, that the Admiralty or RAF might figure this vulnerability out early on 1940, and turn to approaching Goodyear Aircraft Corporation, either hoping for US release of helium for their regular operation, or a reasonable set of modifications to enable fairly safe operations with hydrogen, and beginning early in 1941 start operating increasing numbers of big blimps, to tighten up the seal on the Scotland-Bergen barrier line, and also to range far north of that line to pick up any U-boats that got through, and perhaps, if Luftwaffe strafing attacks can be held back, south of the line to winnow out some of the U-boats contemplating running through that line and deter them from trying it. If hangars in east Scotland and Bergen are too vulnerable, the long range of airships enables them to operate far south or east of their main bases, and IIRC, stay on patrol day and night for days at a time--the crews were large enough for multishift operations of that kind to be feasible.

The advantage over faster and higher flying fixed wing aircraft is as noted that the gentle conditions in the airship enable fussy, tempermental advanced gear prototypes, or very high power versions of more conventional equipment, deployed hard against a surface pretty near by and quite competitively with any land plane.
On the minefield: I’m thinking that the Allies didn’t start on it until probably May 1940, and other priorities(ie U-Boats not being perceived as a major threat to shipping for another few months, the Mediterranean theater sucking up lots of naval resources) have delayed the field, which is patrolled by some ASW ships as well as aircraft (I’m not a huge Aviation expert, but from what you said it seems like blimps would be a good idea, so they will probably be deployed in good numbers after the US enters the war). Once the minefield is completed, there will of course be corridors for shipping routes/warship movement, but it will block the North Sea off pretty well.
 

Driftless

Donor
On the minefield: I’m thinking that the Allies didn’t start on it until probably May 1940, and other priorities(ie U-Boats not being perceived as a major threat to shipping for another few months, the Mediterranean theater sucking up lots of naval resources) have delayed the field, which is patrolled by some ASW ships as well as aircraft (I’m not a huge Aviation expert, but from what you said it seems like blimps would be a good idea, so they will probably be deployed in good numbers after the US enters the war). Once the minefield is completed, there will of course be corridors for shipping routes/warship movement, but it will block the North Sea off pretty well.

Blimps worked - mostly to help keep subs submerged - off the US coast in WW2. The long loiter time was a real virtue. I believe the British made extensive use of airships during WW1, so there's some precedence there, though the often crappy weather over the North and Sea and proximity of the Luftwaffe may limit their utility. Base some blimps in Scotland, or Bergen and points North?
 
Blimps worked in the Atlantic, but I think they are too vulnerable in the European theatre. Heavy fighters like the me-110 would have them for breakfast.
 
Blimps worked in the Atlantic, but I think they are too vulnerable in the European theatre. Heavy fighters like the me-110 would have them for breakfast.
But if they were on the Northern Scotland-Bergen Line, getting a 110 out there is difficult and probably not worth it.
 
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