Decisive Darkness: What if Japan hadn't surrendered in 1945?

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Yay to at least partially Red Japan, boo to A-bombs. Japan and socialism mix so well, that a TL about that just needed to be made.
 
"We can no longer direct the war with any hope of success. The only course left is for Japan's one hundred million people to sacrifice their lives by charging the enemy to make them lose the will to fight

~ Imperial War Journal, July 1945"

This quote is worthy of a Japanese death poem. :cool:

Now let's hope the Japanese can make the Russians bleed for every inch of the home islands they take.
 
Not gonna happen. At most, the Soviets get Hokkaido and that's iffy, considering how crap their Pacific fleet was. OTOH, by this time the IJN has effectively ceased to exist, and all remaining military assets are concentrated in Kyushu, so it could barely be doable, though Soviet casualties will still be high. Not that Stalin would care.

I agree. The US is not going to split Japan post-war IMO, and I think Stalin would understand the futility of a direct naval confrontation against 30 American fleet carriers.

Stalin will concede the issue and probably make a quid pro quo with the US. Of course, the USSR will take what it can and implement whatever ideological policy pleases them in the period it directly controls Hokkaido and parts of Honshu.
 

John Farson

Banned
I agree. The US is not going to split Japan post-war IMO, and I think Stalin would understand the futility of a direct naval confrontation against 30 American fleet carriers.

Stalin will concede the issue and probably make a quid pro quo with the US. Of course, the USSR will take what it can and implement whatever ideological policy pleases them in the period it directly controls Hokkaido and parts of Honshu.

Also, at this time the Soviets are busy in Manchuria and northern Korea, and also clearing out the Japanese in South Sakhalin and the Kuriles. So a landing on Hokkaido won't be on the scale of D-Day.

What's the situation in the rest of the Pacific theater by the time that Kokura is nuked? I recall that the British were about to start their advance to Malaya and Singapore.
 
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John Farson

Banned
In addition, didn't the Japanese have plans to massacre the POWs?

If they go ahead with it, except for the ones being used as human shields in Japan... and with Beijing, Shanghai and a whole bunch of other cities becoming re-enactments of Manila... and with Unit 731 getting the orders to unleash everything they've got... well, this TL might be the closest "real life" version of Anglo-American/Nazi War, and being Japanese will definitely suck in this universe.
 
Now if only some of unit 731's stockpile could find its way onto the islands then Anami will have a card to play when the invasions hits off if ever.
 

Curiousone

Banned
I agree. The US is not going to split Japan post-war IMO, and I think Stalin would understand the futility of a direct naval confrontation against 30 American fleet carriers.

Stalin will concede the issue and probably make a quid pro quo with the US. Of course, the USSR will take what it can and implement whatever ideological policy pleases them in the period it directly controls Hokkaido and parts of Honshu.

There's a recent thread that dealt with this :).

Also, at this time the Soviets are busy in Manchuria and northern Korea, and also clearing out the Japanese in South Sakhalin and the Kuriles. So a landing on Hokkaido won't be on the scale of D-Day.

What's the situation in the rest of the Pacific theater by the time that Kokura is nuked? I recall that the British were about to start their advance to Malaya and Singapore.

And this :).

Now if only some of unit 731's stockpile could find its way onto the islands then Anami will have a card to play when the invasions hits off if ever.

They'd better hustle, the Mukden compound was over-run in the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, it was the first objective of the Trans-Baikal front. Paradropped troops right on top of it.

I imagine the Americans are going to be pushing the manufacture of M-12 body armour, for more of the earliest helicopters (there won't be enough for any air-assault tactics, but a semi-lucky Marine on a beach somewhere might get a life saving medi-vac.. or an OSS team could get extracted.).
 
Now if only some of unit 731's stockpile could find its way onto the islands then Anami will have a card to play when the invasions hits off if ever.

They pull a stunt like and Half of Japan is a dead zone for the next 70 years either because of nuclear radiation or biological warfare. Being born Japanese after the war would be a curse.
 

Curiousone

Banned
For extra 'grim' or gallows humour where applicable:

"We’re talking about an army that looked like John Bell Hood at Atlanta, missing an arm and a leg and not top-drawer material to start with. The amazing thing is that the Japanese troops knew it themselves. They were the dregs, dragged out of junior-high classrooms and old-age homes and shelters for the hopelessly useless, and they called themselves names that sound like a Heavy Metal amateur night at your local bar:

“human bullets,” “Manchurian orphans,” “Victim Units” and “The Pulverized.”

(If you don’t believe me, check out Philip Jowett’s book, The Japanese Army 1931-1945, page 22.) Their official strength was 24 divisions, but that translated to about eight divisions of effectives, with only about 1200 light armored vehicles."

http://exile.ru/print.php?ARTICLE_ID=18939&IBLOCK_ID=35
 
Now let's hope the Japanese can make the Russians bleed for every inch of the home islands they take.

The experience of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands might imply that they'll get their wish...

What's the situation in the rest of the Pacific theater by the time that Kokura is nuked? I recall that the British were about to start their advance to Malaya and Singapore.

Will cover soon, though it's only been a week since the PoD mind. ;)

In addition, didn't the Japanese have plans to massacre the POWs?

The plans were certainly there to execute the PoW's if the frontline approached the camp, as things are, well, I don't want to give too much away just now.
 

John Farson

Banned
'Kay.

In Feifer's "The Battle of Okinawa: The Blood and the Bomb," which is referred on wikipedia, it says that "by August 1945, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) had ceased to be an effective fighting force. The only major Japanese warships in fighting order were six aircraft carriers, four cruisers, and one battleship (the Nagato), none of which could be adequately fueled: while the Japanese still had sizeable number of minor warships their use would also have been limited by lack of fuel". The Japanese could "sustain a force of twenty operational destroyers and perhaps forty submarines for a few days at sea." The IJN also had "about 100 Koryu-class midget submarines, 250 smaller Kairyu-class midget submarines, 400 Kaiten manned torpedoes and 800 Shin'yo suicide boats."

Presumably there won't be a last glorious battle for the IJN against a hypothetical American landing as the Americans can just blow these remaining ships out of the water like they did in July. The manned torpedoes and suicide boats, OTOH...
 
In 1945 General George Marshall was still Chief of Staff, United States Army. He became Secretary of State after the war. Otherwise, mighty good post. :)
 
Presumably there won't be a last glorious battle for the IJN against a hypothetical American landing as the Americans can just blow these remaining ships out of the water like they did in July. The manned torpedoes and suicide boats, OTOH...

Japan had bet the farm on Kyushu. If it's to occur at all, Anami's 'decisive battle' will occur on the island, and the sea around it.

In 1945 General George Marshall was still Chief of Staff, United States Army. He became Secretary of State after the war. Otherwise, mighty good post. :)

Ah, nice save, thanks. :eek:
 

Curiousone

Banned
I suppose the Meth epidemic post war is going to bigger, particularly if there's no functioning indigenous government to deal with it or to set up the 'comfort(prostitution) houses' that served the allied soldiers, greatly reduced the rate of rape.
 
There would have been three more a-bombs delivered in September, six each in October and November, and at least seven in December. In 1946, as many as 10 per month was possible.
 
There would have been three more a-bombs delivered in September, six each in October and November, and at least seven in December. In 1946, as many as 10 per month was possible.

I'm curious on how many they'll drop considering that POWs are being used as human shields now
 
Now if only some of unit 731's stockpile could find its way onto the islands then Anami will have a card to play when the invasions hits off if ever.
Japan also possessed stockpiles of poison gas. The Americans were considering the use of gas if invasion was necessary. If they do, there will be retaliation- the invasion will be costly for both sides.
 

Curiousone

Banned
Japan also possessed stockpiles of poison gas. The Americans were considering the use of gas if invasion was necessary. If they do, there will be retaliation- the invasion will be costly for both sides.

Japanese officers were given orders to ignore isolated tactical use of gas by the Americans in the event of an invasion of the home islands. They understood use of gas went well against them. They had no practical delivery systems, it's a great way of getting rid of entrenched troops which they'd hoped to use & the winds didn't favour it either.
 
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