American Magic: A Different History of Disney
- Thread starter OldNavy1988
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Thanks. Although, I might end up rebooting this one since some users have asked if Walt was going to live longer, but it seems my POD was too late. It is believed Walt took up smoking right when he drove an ambulance during WWI. Maybe a higher age requirement for the ambulance corps could've been the POD. I dunno, just not sure how to go forward right now.
I think other people have butterflied cancer as just another difference; natural occurrences like disasters and diseases being most susceptible to Chaos Theory.
Even IOTL, they say there are factors like heredity, environment, etc. the truth is they don't know; they just make up plausible sounding BS to make it seem like they what they're doing, so people will feel better. Even lung cancer isn't entirely consistent with genetics, because someone's father can smoke 4 packs a day and live to be 90, while the son could barely smoke 1 pack a day and end up with cancer. And if second-hand smoke is as major a factor as people like to insist, than everyone who was a child in the '50s should have lung disease because all surviving accounts say that most adults at the time smoked like bloody chimneys and gave it a second thought. Nobody knows, it really does just seem completely random.
So I would be fine with "he just doesn't have cancer ITTL", but if you want something more concrete... maybe his doctor catches it early enough that he's able to get in on an experimental treatment? Maybe once the space race starts convincing the corporate suits on the Board of Directors that they should've listened to their boss from day one (as usual), and Progress City goes forward, one of the first companies to move in to their research lab is a pharmaceutical company doing cancer research?
That's the other thing that has left me stuck. I am not sure how to sneak in the early detection and experimental treatment part without crossing into ASB territory. As far as a pharmaceutical moving into EPCOT, I know Pfizer and Bayer existed back then, and Bristol-Myers had yet to merge with Squibb, who was actively researching cancer at this point in the last couple decades of Walt's lifetime?
Besides the medical field, I still picture GE getting in on EPCOT, but who else will be able to "have a seat at the table," if you will, before economic conditions turn sour?
If you keep him out of the ambulance corps, you really drastically change his life. The effect of barring him from that service is probably to bar him from the war completely, probably to keep him from crossing the Atlantic at all at that time. I'd think this is far too formative a period to simply skip; witnessing the war up close is probably essential to key aspects of Disney's sensibility. And it is probably also essential that he serve in the role of ambulance driver and not soldier.. As such he shared the soldier'fereers observation of horrors close up; he shared their risk--with some mitigation, but not so much that he could be said to be safe; but he did not share the same sort of moral complicity. I daresay he felt some guilt for not being one of them and fully sharing, but also something like serenity that he did not refrain from soldiering out of cowardice and that his presence on the lines gave the soldiers a bit more hope of survival; it must be some help in the darkness to know that one is oneself a ray of light.
It is just too powerful and primal an experience to be removed from Disney's life without making him entirely a different person. He had an answer to the question "what did you do in the war?" that did not involve himself as a soldier but as someone who saved soldiers.
Now on the other hand, in this apocalyptic setting, when it seems the seven seals are opening and the sky itself running like congealing blood, he may well have had an encounter he happened not to have OTL.
Say there is some old soldier, one dying of lung cancer. He covered it up to get back to the front with his unit. There he's been going on fighting while getting worse and worse but it doesn't superficially seem like anything worse than typical trench problems.
OTL, dizzy with his sickness, he took a bullet between his eyes and became one more terrible corpse to bury, presumably dead only by enemy action pure and simple.
ITTL, he is injured, and Walt Disney picks him up to drive him to a hospital tent. Then the ambulance is is bracketed by faire and Walt is forced to hid it and wait it out, and goes back to check on his patient, finding any third person such a nurse who should be there is dead; he alone is there for the dying soldier. They are stuck a while, long enough for the dying man to tip over toward his final crisis, but he and Walt talk about things--there is little else he can do but listen to the man. Among many things, the solider and he talk about smoking itself, and this encounter gives him a powerful lesson about what smoking did to the man, among many other things that he recalls vividly all his life.
This is not a miracle cure for smoking as it turns out. It is more complex and subtle than that, and he really quits much late--but much earlier than in OTL!
It is just too powerful and primal an experience to be removed from Disney's life without making him entirely a different person. He had an answer to the question "what did you do in the war?" that did not involve himself as a soldier but as someone who saved soldiers.
Now on the other hand, in this apocalyptic setting, when it seems the seven seals are opening and the sky itself running like congealing blood, he may well have had an encounter he happened not to have OTL.
Say there is some old soldier, one dying of lung cancer. He covered it up to get back to the front with his unit. There he's been going on fighting while getting worse and worse but it doesn't superficially seem like anything worse than typical trench problems.
OTL, dizzy with his sickness, he took a bullet between his eyes and became one more terrible corpse to bury, presumably dead only by enemy action pure and simple.
ITTL, he is injured, and Walt Disney picks him up to drive him to a hospital tent. Then the ambulance is is bracketed by faire and Walt is forced to hid it and wait it out, and goes back to check on his patient, finding any third person such a nurse who should be there is dead; he alone is there for the dying soldier. They are stuck a while, long enough for the dying man to tip over toward his final crisis, but he and Walt talk about things--there is little else he can do but listen to the man. Among many things, the solider and he talk about smoking itself, and this encounter gives him a powerful lesson about what smoking did to the man, among many other things that he recalls vividly all his life.
This is not a miracle cure for smoking as it turns out. It is more complex and subtle than that, and he really quits much late--but much earlier than in OTL!
I'd imagine all of the major space contractors would, especially the Aerospace companies: Lockheed, Northrop, Grumman, North American-Rockwell, Convair, Hughs, Douglas (NA-Rockwell and Douglas now known as Boeing); probably a couple of airlines, I know TWA sponsored some things at OTL Disney World, maybe PanAm would as well ITTL? On a related note, if this could somehow keep PanAm from going under, that would be great.
This! I like this! Less of a stretch, but still quite possibly enough to save him or at least give him an extra decade or so.
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It's okay.
If you would like to offer suggestions on how to move this TL forward, I'm open to ideas. Feel free to send me a PM.
0_0 !!!
Fixed now, it seems I accidentally deleted the right bracket when I snipped his quote to respond to it, and it just skipped down to yours. (Fortunately my reply was still there, just a glitch in the code from the missing bracket.)
The Jungle Book
Beatlemania meets the Bare Necessities
Preface: ITTL, Mary Poppins turns out the same as OTL, as was the case with Dalmatians.
And of course, a GIANT thank you to markedward for the suggestions for this update.
Walt's version of the Rudyard Kipling Mowgli stories proved to be a more light-hearted, freewheeling, happy go lucky take on Kipling's mysterious tales.
Larry Clemmons; Storyboard writer (1980's interview):
"He held up the book by Rudyard Kipling and said: 'First thing I want you to do is NOT read the book.'"
It was a risk to disregard the source material, but Walt preferred his staff have fun with the development of the characters. Baloo the bear came to life with Walt's suggestion to cast Phil Harris, former sidekick of comedian Jack Benny. Harris' performance would earn him a new generation of fans that were previously unaware of his earlier radio credits. In addition, Walt brought in Sterling Holloway to voice Kaa the python. At first, some of the animation staff groaned at the casting of Holloway, as he had previously voiced Mr Stork in Dumbo, the adult Flower in Bambi, the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland, Amos Mouse in Ben and Me, and very recently, Winnie the Pooh. Another Disney veteran, J. Pat O'Malley provided the voice of Colonel Hathi. O'Malley's previous credits included Cyril Proudbottom in The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad, Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum, the Walrus, the Carpenter and the Oysters in Alice in Wonderland, plus Jasper and the Colonel in 101 Dalmatians. Verna Felton, who previously voiced the Matriarch Elephant in Dumbo, the Fairy Godmother in Cinderella, the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland, Aunt Sarah in Lady and the Tramp and Flora in Sleeping Beauty, was cast as Mrs. Hathi, in her last screen credit. She passed away 10 months before the film's release. For the voice of Bagheera the panther, Disney cast Sebastian Cabot, best known as Mr. French on television's Family Affair. For King Louie, a character created specifically for the Disney version, the studio cast jazz legend Louis Prima. For the voice of Mowgli the man-cub, director Woolie Reitherman brought in his youngest son Bruce, who previously voiced Christopher Robin in Winnie the Pooh and the Honey Tree.
For the role of the singing vultures, the studio offered the roles to the biggest rock band of the era, The Beatles. John Lennon expressed disinterest in the part. Paul McCartney and George Harrison also passed, but Ringo Starr, nicknamed "The Fun One," was more open to the idea, making The Jungle Book his first foray into acting. Rounding out the vultures were Chad Stuart, Lord Tim Hudson and Digby Wolfe.
The Jungle Book premiered in the fourth quarter of 1967, and was an immediate blockbuster hit. The songs, written by the Sherman Brothers along with the Bare Necessities, written by Terry Gilkyson, were hummed and sung from the Big Apple to the beaches of California.
Note: Ringo takes over for J. Pat O'Malley as Buzzie. The rest of the vultures are: Chad Stuart as Flaps, Lord Tim Hudson as Dizzy and Digby Wolfe as Ziggy.
Preface: ITTL, Mary Poppins turns out the same as OTL, as was the case with Dalmatians.
And of course, a GIANT thank you to markedward for the suggestions for this update.
Walt's version of the Rudyard Kipling Mowgli stories proved to be a more light-hearted, freewheeling, happy go lucky take on Kipling's mysterious tales.
Larry Clemmons; Storyboard writer (1980's interview):
"He held up the book by Rudyard Kipling and said: 'First thing I want you to do is NOT read the book.'"
It was a risk to disregard the source material, but Walt preferred his staff have fun with the development of the characters. Baloo the bear came to life with Walt's suggestion to cast Phil Harris, former sidekick of comedian Jack Benny. Harris' performance would earn him a new generation of fans that were previously unaware of his earlier radio credits. In addition, Walt brought in Sterling Holloway to voice Kaa the python. At first, some of the animation staff groaned at the casting of Holloway, as he had previously voiced Mr Stork in Dumbo, the adult Flower in Bambi, the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland, Amos Mouse in Ben and Me, and very recently, Winnie the Pooh. Another Disney veteran, J. Pat O'Malley provided the voice of Colonel Hathi. O'Malley's previous credits included Cyril Proudbottom in The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad, Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum, the Walrus, the Carpenter and the Oysters in Alice in Wonderland, plus Jasper and the Colonel in 101 Dalmatians. Verna Felton, who previously voiced the Matriarch Elephant in Dumbo, the Fairy Godmother in Cinderella, the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland, Aunt Sarah in Lady and the Tramp and Flora in Sleeping Beauty, was cast as Mrs. Hathi, in her last screen credit. She passed away 10 months before the film's release. For the voice of Bagheera the panther, Disney cast Sebastian Cabot, best known as Mr. French on television's Family Affair. For King Louie, a character created specifically for the Disney version, the studio cast jazz legend Louis Prima. For the voice of Mowgli the man-cub, director Woolie Reitherman brought in his youngest son Bruce, who previously voiced Christopher Robin in Winnie the Pooh and the Honey Tree.
For the role of the singing vultures, the studio offered the roles to the biggest rock band of the era, The Beatles. John Lennon expressed disinterest in the part. Paul McCartney and George Harrison also passed, but Ringo Starr, nicknamed "The Fun One," was more open to the idea, making The Jungle Book his first foray into acting. Rounding out the vultures were Chad Stuart, Lord Tim Hudson and Digby Wolfe.
The Jungle Book premiered in the fourth quarter of 1967, and was an immediate blockbuster hit. The songs, written by the Sherman Brothers along with the Bare Necessities, written by Terry Gilkyson, were hummed and sung from the Big Apple to the beaches of California.
Note: Ringo takes over for J. Pat O'Malley as Buzzie. The rest of the vultures are: Chad Stuart as Flaps, Lord Tim Hudson as Dizzy and Digby Wolfe as Ziggy.
And lest we forget, we still have George Sanders as the voice of the sinister Shere Khan.
Otherwise known as the man with one of the most badass suicide notes ever written.
"Dear World, I am leaving because I am bored. I feel I have lived long enough. I am leaving you with your worries in this sweet cesspool. Good luck."
Suicide is never the right choice, but I respect him for wanting to go out on his own terms.
Plus, Tom Conway, narrator of Peter Pan and voice of the Quizmaster and collie from 101 Dalmatians was his brother.
And, as I added to my original post, I can respect him wanting to go out on his own terms.
I didn't know he committed suicide, but you're right, that IS the most badass note ever.
Walt on World War I
*Based on a suggestion by Shevek23*
An excerpt from Blank on Blank presents
WALT DISNEY on WORLD WAR I
BBC Radio interview February 1968.
WALT: “My older brother Roy enlisted in the Navy during the Great War, and like every other young man of my generation, I was more than anxious to help out my country. Of course, I was turned down by the Navy because I was too young. Luckily, an enthusiastic young man came up and told me about this Ambulance Unit. And so I joined that and was assigned to France, just mere months before the Armistice was signed. And it was there that I really began to tap into my artistic abilities.”
WALT (Cont’d): “One night, as I was driving a wounded soldier to a nearby hospital tent, my ambulance was sprayed with bullets, and we had to wait it out and hope that the gunfire cease. We talked many a great things in his last moments on earth, among those was his years of pipe and cigarette smoking. He thought his smoking habit was what slowed him down in combat, being short on breath while marching, and an urge to light up when he was supposed to be firing his rifle. In his final words, he wished that I avoid repeating his mistakes should I return to civilian life. These words left a lasting impact on me ever since.”
An excerpt from Blank on Blank presents
WALT DISNEY on WORLD WAR I
BBC Radio interview February 1968.
WALT: “My older brother Roy enlisted in the Navy during the Great War, and like every other young man of my generation, I was more than anxious to help out my country. Of course, I was turned down by the Navy because I was too young. Luckily, an enthusiastic young man came up and told me about this Ambulance Unit. And so I joined that and was assigned to France, just mere months before the Armistice was signed. And it was there that I really began to tap into my artistic abilities.”
WALT (Cont’d): “One night, as I was driving a wounded soldier to a nearby hospital tent, my ambulance was sprayed with bullets, and we had to wait it out and hope that the gunfire cease. We talked many a great things in his last moments on earth, among those was his years of pipe and cigarette smoking. He thought his smoking habit was what slowed him down in combat, being short on breath while marching, and an urge to light up when he was supposed to be firing his rifle. In his final words, he wished that I avoid repeating his mistakes should I return to civilian life. These words left a lasting impact on me ever since.”
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Hansel and Gretel
*Special thanks once again to markedward*
SUGAR...OH, HONEY, HONEY...
As construction wound down on the Magic Kingdom and condensed EPCOT in Orlando, Walt mulled over offers from General Electric, Pan Am Airlines, American Express, AT&T, Eastman Kodak, Goodyear, Boeing, Monsanto, IBM, Ford, Coca Cola, Texaco and Sony, each of whom jockeyed for position to be part of EPCOT's Pavilion of Progress.
Meanwhile in Burbank, the animation staff delivered Hansel and Gretel, based on the Brothers Grimm fairy tale.
The twins, voiced by Clint Howard and Pamelyn Ferdin, are tricked by their wicked stepmother (June Foray) into going deep into the woods in search of berries. Unbeknownst to the vile woman, Hansel had laid down a path of breadcrumbs so he and Gretel can find their way home. However, this path would be gobbled up by the Breadcrumb Birds, Toasty (Dallas McKennon), Hardtack (Wally Boag) and their leader, Scuffler (Tim Brooke-Taylor). The birds initially taunt and tease the pair, leaving them to wander absentmindedly until they come across a Gingerbread House, to which they help themselves, until they come face to face with the wicked witch (Geraldine Page). Once she has the twins stuffed and locked in cages for her diabolical plans, she sings herself a maniacal song about how sugar, spice and everything nice make human flesh taste mighty nice. The Breadcrumb Birds have a change of heart, rescue the twins from the Gingerbread House, and reunite them with their father, the woodcutter (Hal Smith) and their stepmother, who begs the pair for forgiveness.
Disney released Hansel and Gretel in the fourth quarter of 1969, just in time for Christmas. A modest success in its first box office run, the film has gained greater appreciation through several theatrical and eventually, home media reissues. Tim Brooke-Taylor's improvised humor was considered relatively adult for a Disney film at the time, and inevitably went over many kids' heads. Once Monty Python, Benny Hill and other British comedy acts gained more respect from American audiences, his performance as Scuffler would become a favorite among Disney fans. Animator Milt Kahl pulled off his animation the comical witch relying solely on Geraldine Page's vocal abilities rather than use the customary live action model.
SUGAR...OH, HONEY, HONEY...
As construction wound down on the Magic Kingdom and condensed EPCOT in Orlando, Walt mulled over offers from General Electric, Pan Am Airlines, American Express, AT&T, Eastman Kodak, Goodyear, Boeing, Monsanto, IBM, Ford, Coca Cola, Texaco and Sony, each of whom jockeyed for position to be part of EPCOT's Pavilion of Progress.
Meanwhile in Burbank, the animation staff delivered Hansel and Gretel, based on the Brothers Grimm fairy tale.
The twins, voiced by Clint Howard and Pamelyn Ferdin, are tricked by their wicked stepmother (June Foray) into going deep into the woods in search of berries. Unbeknownst to the vile woman, Hansel had laid down a path of breadcrumbs so he and Gretel can find their way home. However, this path would be gobbled up by the Breadcrumb Birds, Toasty (Dallas McKennon), Hardtack (Wally Boag) and their leader, Scuffler (Tim Brooke-Taylor). The birds initially taunt and tease the pair, leaving them to wander absentmindedly until they come across a Gingerbread House, to which they help themselves, until they come face to face with the wicked witch (Geraldine Page). Once she has the twins stuffed and locked in cages for her diabolical plans, she sings herself a maniacal song about how sugar, spice and everything nice make human flesh taste mighty nice. The Breadcrumb Birds have a change of heart, rescue the twins from the Gingerbread House, and reunite them with their father, the woodcutter (Hal Smith) and their stepmother, who begs the pair for forgiveness.
Disney released Hansel and Gretel in the fourth quarter of 1969, just in time for Christmas. A modest success in its first box office run, the film has gained greater appreciation through several theatrical and eventually, home media reissues. Tim Brooke-Taylor's improvised humor was considered relatively adult for a Disney film at the time, and inevitably went over many kids' heads. Once Monty Python, Benny Hill and other British comedy acts gained more respect from American audiences, his performance as Scuffler would become a favorite among Disney fans. Animator Milt Kahl pulled off his animation the comical witch relying solely on Geraldine Page's vocal abilities rather than use the customary live action model.
The big glitch in the Hansel & Gretel story is, how can the children, father, or audience reconcile with and forgive the stepmother?
If Disney can figure out a convincing way to do that, that is genius.
He most obviously cannot go with the source material and have her killed off!
------
By the way, since we are in a Disney thread--this is not the time to bring this up, that would have been many posts back...
{Spoiler for anyone who has not seen Disney's Sleeping Beauty somehow and wants to and hates spoilers}
It is my favorite of the feature length cartoons of Disney's lifetime.
If Disney can figure out a convincing way to do that, that is genius.
He most obviously cannot go with the source material and have her killed off!
------
By the way, since we are in a Disney thread--this is not the time to bring this up, that would have been many posts back...
{Spoiler for anyone who has not seen Disney's Sleeping Beauty somehow and wants to and hates spoilers}
But the whole point (well a major one anyway) of the traditional versions of the Sleeping Beauty story is, that Princess Aurora and in most versions, the entire kingdom too, sleeps for a hundred years out of time. That's a pretty key feature of the whole fairy tale.
In fact in the OTL version, the witch even draws attention to this, by proposing to hold the prince in captivity for the whole century so Aurora can be woken by the True Love's Kiss of a decrepit and broken ancient man on the verge of death.
And yet--in the Disney story of Sleeping Beauty, how long does she and the kingdom lie in magical slumber?
Just one night that's how long!
Nobody minds this when they see the movie though.
In fact in the OTL version, the witch even draws attention to this, by proposing to hold the prince in captivity for the whole century so Aurora can be woken by the True Love's Kiss of a decrepit and broken ancient man on the verge of death.
And yet--in the Disney story of Sleeping Beauty, how long does she and the kingdom lie in magical slumber?
Just one night that's how long!
Nobody minds this when they see the movie though.
It is my favorite of the feature length cartoons of Disney's lifetime.
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