I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd certainly watch the Yes, Comrade episode that touches upon the Supersonic Booze Carrier Tu-22.
...that's a lot of chutes. I'm having nightmare visions of them tangling up on the way down. Given the payload requirements (30 up, 20 down), the TsKBEM seems the most likely starting point for a Soviet shuttle design, but something might still come up. I wonder if they couldn't carry it back to the launch site after landing with a supersized helicopter--Mil V-12 or some derivative.
This is why the United States won the Cold War. As only it has the wealth and pigheadedness to browbeat people into thinking "Propulsive Lift Concept for the Descent and Landing of Manned Entry Vehicles" can be acronymized as PLAME. Our greatest weapon is the English language. Gaze upon it and tremble in fear.(As an example NASA studied the "PLAME" {Propulsive Lift Concept for the Descent and Landing of Manned Entry Vehicles} as means to land a spacecraft and found it traded pretty well if you didn't for some reason want wings on larger spacecraft... but why would you NOT want wings? Oh ya, that center-of-pressure thing, right)
Yep. Just like OTLOh dear, the Soviets seem to be heading down the Buran pathway despite a.) not having a need or b.) being able to afford it.
The recovery problem is one we'll see explored more as the project develops, but you're quite right, those bunches of parachutes look dicey....that's a lot of chutes. I'm having nightmare visions of them tangling up on the way down. Given the payload requirements (30 up, 20 down), the TsKBEM seems the most likely starting point for a Soviet shuttle design, but something might still come up. I wonder if they couldn't carry it back to the launch site after landing with a supersized helicopter--Mil V-12 or some derivative.
It has been Decreed, so it must be done! Or at least, it must be kept formally on the books until it is delivered or whithers away from lack of interestI'm really hoping that the ATL Buran doesn't get funded here... Surely Mishin can save us from this fate.
Otherwise we will need someone to deflate the Space shuttle before it inflates and consumes what is left of the Soviet Space budget and deny us more glorious rocket launches of the N-1, maybe strapping the shuttle to the top of the N-1 superbooster will truly 'fix' the issue of finding the rocket booster needed to launch this thing.
Yeah, Glushko's got other fish to fry for the moment, and wasn't convinced of the need for a Shuttle (as he wasn't IOTL either, which was a big factor in Energia being designed to operate without the Buran orbiter). His focus is on delivering the military stations he's commited to from Chelomei's days, and putting that upstart Kuznetsov back in his place regarding who is the premier builder of rocket engines in the USSR.So Paranoia looks to be forcing a Soviet Response to STS after all. That is some In Spite of a Nail there, and not just for the reason given...
Then, Glushko isn't Chelomei, so I can't see him trying to build a TTL-LKS behind the Leadership's backs.
And for some reason, I can't get the image of StarShipSki outta my mind when I read about how the TsKBEM design is "intended" to be placed atop the N1, even though he likely hasn't even started school yet at this point...
Just what's gonna happen next? Especially given Mishin's go-to for dealing with Stress...
We'll be coming back to check on Mishin's progress with the shuttle in a few weeks, but just to point out that TsKBEM's initial proposal at the time of the Joint Decree authorising the shuttle is still quite superficial. It will evolve as the serious engineering work begins.That was one of the reasons it wasn't accepted and also the heating of such a dense object with limited surface area was a major issue. On the other hand said 'density' would have allowed a metallic TPS system which could have handled the heating load and the mass of the parachutes was enough so that a turbine or rocket based landing systems might trade quite well. (As an example NASA studied the "PLAME" {Propulsive Lift Concept for the Descent and Landing of Manned Entry Vehicles} as means to land a spacecraft and found it traded pretty well if you didn't for some reason want wings on larger spacecraft... but why would you NOT want wings? Oh ya, that center-of-pressure thing, right)
A multi-stage fan driven by a RCS propellant rocket thruster (an airturborocket set up) would be even lighter and higher performance than an actual jet engine so it would likely work for a larger vehicle.
Randy
"Comrade, we must redouble our efforts to match the Americans in this field! We cannot allow an Acronym Gap (AG)!"This is why the United States won the Cold War. As only it has the wealth and pigheadedness to browbeat people into thinking "Propulsive Lift Concept for the Descent and Landing of Manned Entry Vehicles" can be acronymized as PLAME. Our greatest weapon is the English language. Gaze upon it and tremble in fear.
Oh yeah, how do we even deflate something that hasn't been inflated yet?Also, given the recent Interlude, I must admit I had Bernard Woolley's voice in my head when I first read your comment: "Er, you can't deflate something before it inflates, Minister. There's no air inside to remove, so you'd just... <makes sucking noises>"
It has been Decreed, so it must be done! Or at least, it must be kept formally on the books until it is delivered or whithers away from lack of interestBut with the KGB pushing the threat of the US Shuttle and the Defence Minister convinced, don't expect the Soviet shuttle programme to disappear any time soon.
OTOH (and assuming Mishin gets his way), there will be no new heavy lift rocket developed for the Soviet shuttle ITTL, with no new large hydrolox engines or high performance kerolox boosters needed, nor their associated test facilities. This significantly reduces the effort and risk of the programme compared to OTL - at least, until the Devil starts emerging from the details![]()
This is why the United States won the Cold War. As only it has the wealth and pigheadedness to browbeat people into thinking "Propulsive Lift Concept for the Descent and Landing of Manned Entry Vehicles" can be acronymized as PLAME. Our greatest weapon is the English language. Gaze upon it and tremble in fear.
"Comrade, we must redouble our efforts to match the Americans in this field! We cannot allow an Acronym Gap (AG)!"
NASA is a national disgrace in this regard. While the Air Force is a next-level operator of nested acronyms and one of the premiere combatants in the Acronym Wars, NASA can't even keep up with the Europeans in the realm of space-related acronyms. Then again, the ESA is itself a premiere combatant in the Acronym Wars, so perhaps the comparison is not apt.Then there's the "military mind-set" (which of course transfers quite well over to organizations like NASA-et-al) which insists on finding the "oddest" way to pronounce an acronym, and the individuals which will find more 'interesting' ways to pronouncing it.
Really it's officially "AF-ARTS" not "A-FARTS"
No, no, no!No, no you need to "Bureaucratically" imagine the result; it would be we must initiate an Acronym Resulting, Gap Hiding plan. ARGH!
The 'gap' would be Acronym Gap Addressing Increasing Numbers or AGAIN.
NASA is a national disgrace in this regard. While the Air Force is a next-level operator of nested acronyms and one of the premiere combatants in the Acronym Wars, NASA can't even keep up with the Europeans in the realm of space-related acronyms. Then again, the ESA is itself a premiere combatant in the Acronym Wars, so perhaps the comparison is not apt.
No, no, no!
These are our most formidable weapon against the Reds. And, even more dangerous still, the Francophones. You must respect the English language's natural flow. Which means it'd be Acronym Gap Addressed by Increasing Numbers (AGAIN). Or Acronym Gap-Addressing Increase in Numbers (AGAIN).
Maybe Yoda's way of talking was simply the result of having worked in government for 600 years?