I asked Baxter about the orbits thing at a con I attended a while back. He said that Moonlab utilized a frozen orbit and after it was decommissioned an Apollo tug maneuvered it out of the orbit and NASA let mascons do the rest.
A Sound of Thunder: The Rise of the Soviet Superbooster
- Thread starter nixonshead
- Start date
Question for ya, i am rebooting my Canadian Shuttle timeline and wanted to ask you about a good name, my top two are
Bonaventure (after the aircaft carrier)
Investigator (ship that discovered the north west passage)
which would you pick?
anyways
here are the links
The Solo soviet mission, basically the N1 launch in June of 1969 but different (not spoiling more), lunar vehicles are the basic LOK and modified Soyuz
This one has a similar plot to the first in regards to the mission, its kinda an adventure book where astronauts in the future of 2019 land on the moon looking for helium 3, come across a LOK lander with footprints all around leading away, it basically has a modern and past plot that reveals more over the book.Mission profile in this is using a Proton to launch a manned LOK lander to the moon, will not spoil the reast
I also have two other books that i like in the moon genre
Apollo 11 crashes due to the 1201 and 1202 messing with the engines, plus that spin from Apollo 10 due to the abort radar trying to find the CSM causes the LM to crash, this basically follows with the Soviets reinvigorated and NASA trying to recover
Cheesy Apollo 18 mission that runs into trouble, has a gunfight on the lunar surface, it has a modern day and past plot like the other one where details of the mystery are revealed
Between those two, probably Investigator. More prominent place in Canadian history, and a better name for a science ship. Bonaventure is very recently retired, without replacement, on the basis of government spending decisions I doubt the government wants to raise by naming a Shuttle after her, and....in 13 years didn't really do much that I am aware of?
I was leaning on Investigator, thank you
Brock, Ross and Champlain were on the table, but imagining the name on a shuttle doesn't work for me, thus north pole exploration ships that were british
(Ross being after James Clark Ross, not his older uncle who was apparently a prick)
If you could pick a name for a Canadian Shuttle, what would you choose?
Honestly Bonaventure did nothing except be apart of a NATO ASW fleet flagship, she served during the Cuban missile crisis, other then that she did fuck all, she was scrapped right after the mid-life refit due to Canada cheapening out on everything. I only used it as it sounded cool
Her predecessor Magnificent atleast has the distinction of being used as a transport during the Suez crisis, that crisis is partially the reason why Canada changed the flag, Egyptian dignitaries thought the Canadians were British due to the Union Jack on the flag
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About "first woman on the Moon", she was on a mission that lasted for I suppose around a month (three weeks on the surface + estimated week of travel between Moon and Earth). I'm kinda interested if soviets haven't forgotten about her menstrual cycle, and if there were any problems with it.
There's this funny story how engineers preparing Sally Ride on her first flight (first american woman flight too) weren't sure about the number of tampons for her six day flight. They were even scared to ask their wifes, so then one chosen technician went to Sally and asked her something like: "Will hundred tampons be enough?"
I'm not completely sure if the story happened, but it illustrates how much was NASA gender biased. That leaves me with the same sexism in the soviet sector, if not a bit worse. According to another story, when Valentin Lebedev arrived at the Salyut 7 station, he gave Svetlana Savitskaya, second female cosmonaut, an apron with the words: "Get to work."
And of course, I'm pretty sure ITTL some rumours about "Moon Sex" spread across the world. That's what happened with Svetlana Savitskaya IOTL, but with just "space sex".
And last thing, one that doesn't concern just Valieva, how is it with hygiene on the Moon?
Yeah, that's what NASA was waiting for in 1980. They can go right on waiting...
"A" high point doesn't necessarily mean "the" high point. Apollo 8 was a high point, once.
I wondered how long it would take for people to spot that ;-) I hadn't considered a Padme version, but now you mention it, I have an idea...
Interkosmos does not exist as a formal programme at this point, but an East German visited Zarya 3 in 1983, in order to pre-empt a similar mission by a West German to Skylab. Talks are afoot to send other Warsaw Pact and allied nationals on future rotation missions, but as you noted, the explicitly military nature of Zarya means they are being a bit more cautious about who goes up, not to mention the amount of publicity photos and television coverage they would be given.
That quote was 'several' more years, not seven. Blok-V-III was formally approved as part of Baikal (and the concept is older, pre-dating our PoD), and it's use in support of lunar missions is partially opportunistic (here are your extra 800kg, Korolev!), and partly down to preferring to operate a single version of N-1 rather than two in parallel.
Glushko inherited Proton from Chelomei when he took over TsKBM as NPO Energomash in 1973. R7 is still in use for uncrewed payloads, but was retired from crewed missions when Slava replaced Soyuz as a space station ferry. The addition of Blok-V-III will provide a lot more than an extra 800kg perfromance to N-1, giving N1-OK an expected performance of 125t to LEO.
No plans for this in the near future. They're focussed on a surface base.
I skipped over this issue for the sake of delecacy, but measures will be in place. However, given the nature of the Soviet space effort at this time as a military-driven national prestige project in a totalitarian state, the 'preferred' approach (i.e. preferred by the male engineers and Party and military officials responsible for the mission) is medical in nature: Savitskaya was given a histerectomy before the mission.
Hygine in general is (infrequent) sponge baths, probably using the Return Vehicle for privacy. Eye baths are much more frequent since the first mission.
As for lunar sex, I'm sure you're right there would be rumours, but the higher ups would have made it very clear that the cosmonauts are in the eyes of the world representing the best of Socialism, and so nooky in space will not be tolorated. Savitskaya will regrettably face the everyday sexsim typical of the times, but relations with her fellow cosmonauts otherwise remained professional.
DOS doesn't exist ITTL, as Salyut 1 not being developed was the PoD. The Almaz OPS modules are still in use for uncrewed radar satellites, as in OTL, and the Functional Cargo Blocks of TKS/Slava are being adapted as modules for Zarya, so those are available. I think it's safe to assume Glushko is proposing MKBS/Zarya and FGB/Slava derived interplanetary missions, powered by a new (Glushko-developed) nuclear engine and launched on a large Vulkan-derived heavy lifter. But...
And apologies for nearly forgetting and losing the post, but just to confirm all cosmonauts on the Zvezda 8 mission are original characters. I'm mixing OGs and real cosmonauts/astronauts more frequently as the timeline progresses. In this case, I've been recently re-reading Hackett's 'Third World War' books, which has been a rich source of Soviet names.
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Interlude: Taking Wing
Interlude: Taking Wing
Zhukovski Flight Research Institute, May 1983
Igor Volk, Commander of the Departmental Training Complex for Cosmonaut-Testers, eased the throttle forward a fraction and was rewarded with an increased whine from four Lyulka AL-31F turbofan engines. Outside the small cockpit windows, the concrete taxiway began to roll past as Volk steered his vehicle out towards the end of the main runway at Zhukovski’s Flight Research Institute.
In the right-hand seat, Konstantin Plushenko monitored the vehicle, but kept his hands clear of the controls. Plushenko had been Volk’s co-pilot for all five ground runs over the past year, but this was the big one. Together, they had pushed their experimental aircraft all the way to take-off speed, but not beyond. Today they would finally take the next step into the sky.
The weather at Zhukovski was pleasantly mild and clear on this May morning, with only a gentle westerly breeze. Sunlight reflected from the dummy black and white tiles glued to the airframe of the euphemistically-named “Big Transport Airplane” (or “The Flying Pencil” as it was called by some of its less reverential pilots), as Volk turned the aircraft to face down the runway centreline.
“PULE, this is Orel,” Volk spoke into his radio headset. “We are ready for the final checks.”
“We hear you, Orel,” came the response from the Flight Experiment Control Post. “Confirm engine temperature and hydraulic pressure readings.”
As Volk and Plushenko went over the technical readings with the engineers, a pair of MiG-25 fighters pushed past and screamed down the runway ahead of them. These were the two chase planes for today’s flight. With their escorts in the air, PULE confirmed that all systems were within specification. With all engines in take-off mode and the wings deployed to their maximum span, Volk disengaged the wheel brakes and pushed the throttles forward.
Slowly, the long, slender aircraft began to roll down the runway, steady and easily controllable as it picked up speed. As the ship hit the designated speed, Volk pulled back on his stick. Instantly the plane responded, lifting its nose and rising into the air, exactly as planned.
“I’m pulling up the landing gear,” reported Plushenko as Volk reduced the deflection to match the planned climb rate. “Engines two and three are approaching their pre-set limits.”
“Do not exceed,” Volk warned, but Plushenko was already reporting: “The temperature is now constant.”
“Wheels up.”
As they completed their initial climb, Volk throttled back power to the aircraft’s two auxiliary engines, then ordered Plushenko “Shut down engines two and four.” The co-pilot threw the switches to cut the flow of fuel to the jets, leaving them with just the two deployable engines planned for the operational vehicle.
A new voice now came over the radio, “You’re right on schedule.” Volk looked out of the window to see the pilot of one of the escorting MiG-25s giving a thumbs-up signal.
Volk switched his radio to transmit. “We are about to start the test programme,” he informed the fighter. “Please stand clear.”
“Copy, Orel,” the pilot replied, and the MiG peeled away.
With the way now clear, Volk firmly grasped the steering yolk and pushed the ungainly aircraft into a gentle bank to the right. After passing 30 degrees, he reversed the turn, before moving on to a series of more aggressive climbs, dives and turns. “He handles like an empty transport,” Pushenko noted as Volk completed the manoeuvres.
With their main objectives met, Volk turned back towards the airfield, put the engines in idle, and activated the automatic control unit. Immediately, the aircraft dipped into a steep descent.
“He is perhaps a little too eager to reach the ground!” Pushenko noted.
Volk remained calm, checking the instruments. “Speed and rate of descent are per programme,” he confirmed. He did, however, keep a firm grip on the controls, ready to take over at a moment’s notice.
The automated systems knew what they were doing, and soon began to level off and slow as the plane reached its planned glideslope. The landing gear deployed automatically as Pushenko called out their altitude: “200 metres… 100 metres… fifty…”.
“Let’s go up again”, Volk decided. Switching off the automatic control unit, he pushed the throttle forward, as Pushenko closed the air brake and turned off landing mode.
After one more gentle loop around the airfield, Volk steered the ship back to its entry point and reactivated the automatic controls. Once again, the computer system brought them down on a textbook approach.
“Altitude ten metres,” Plushenko called. “Five… three, two, one metre… contact! Drag chute deployed.”
Still under automatic control, the aircraft rolled out along the runway to a stop.
“Mission accomplished,” Volk announced, as they began their taxi to the parking zone. “I can’t wait to take him into space…”
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Wow! Can't wait to see that thing in space as well, hope it ends up doing a little bit better than Buran did irl (though I doubt we're going to get the Baikal equivalent of The Snow Flies here).
Unrelated side thought, but I was thinking, if Skylab-B does end up serving as the basis for an expanded station later, I think it will just be remembered as "Skylab", with the first station, seen more as an early step/prototype, will be retroactively called Skylab 1 or Skylab A. Sort of like what will probably happen with Tiangong right now.
Unrelated side thought, but I was thinking, if Skylab-B does end up serving as the basis for an expanded station later, I think it will just be remembered as "Skylab", with the first station, seen more as an early step/prototype, will be retroactively called Skylab 1 or Skylab A. Sort of like what will probably happen with Tiangong right now.
Given the state of the Soviet Economy at this time - and Reagan's policies not helping them any - I'm not seeing too many flights of Baikal...
Love the render though. Is that during take-off? Or landing?
Love the render though. Is that during take-off? Or landing?
Swing-wing with the wings retracted into the fuselage to protect them from reentry. US had a similar designs including a version of the Starclipper and the General Dynamics Tri-Mese concept. The wings are not really 'adjustable' on the operational model, probably just extended or retracted with a robust screw type deployment system rather than actually "variable' sweep.
Randy
Yes, I'm glad they have the ejection system, because I worry about those wings.
Swing wings are pretty much a thing in both the US and USSR at the time so don't see why? More specifically they are more "single-use" wings that are designed to come all the way out once and then be 'reset' during refurbishment. In essence they are very similar to the deployable wings on cruise missiles which have a really high working rate by design. Specifically the USSR has a bit more history with such types
Really I'd have expected the test model to have permanently extended wings with a different test bed for the actual extension system.
Randy
Putting anything with wings ON TOP of a booster has all kinds of design hiderances and needs, Baikal needs to be overengineered for what the needs are (crossrange), with how massive the Soviet union is having this capability could save a crew
And anyone criticizing the fold out wings need to remember masterpieces like the inital shuttle design with tiny sub wings, or the skechy Gemini Paraglider idea (how they thought Ejection seats was a good idea is downright insane
Atleast Baikal has atmosphere engines, makes landing less stressful, and safer as the approach doesn't have to be a "nose dive" like the shuttle had, given the lackluster glide capability of the shuttle i doubt Baikal has the same without the big wings (i could be wrong as i am not a Aerospace engineer who knows it completely)
Is the heat shield on Baikal reusable, iirc Burans had to be replaced (or would have been) after every flight
In this timeline i hope the soviets announce the Baikal to the world, it would really paint NASA and the US as weak and behind (more then they are at this point)
I do like this TL for exploring the idea of the Soviets leapfrogging the US, that was their idea OTL until Glusko canned it due to the N1 failures, and likely a personal grudge against Korolev, then the US made a shuttle and the soviets were convinced it was a bomber (theoretically it was capable of this) that could decapitate the government without warning, as the ICBM and SLBM (and other various BM's) radars faced Europe and North, with a handful at other nuclear powers like Isreal, China and Inda and Pakistan
Nixonhead is Gorbachev still leader or was he butterflied out?